Weird lump on face

LaManchaPaul · #21 03/18/09, 09:06 PM

Yes I understand. The author lost any credibility before I could get to the fly part because the diatribe clashed with my logic; which goes like this: “If this part can’t be true, then doubt is placed on all that is written.”

Then, her writings fell in line with my observations of the attitudes of the few CL-positive goatherders that I’ve become aware of. (As I stated from my soap box) I trust that I am not offending you Dragon. It isn't my intention.

I do believe that at present the only option is fatal cull of CL positives. Wishing for a "real" vaccination for goats.
Paul

dragonchick · #22 03/18/09, 09:30 PM

Paul, never fear, I am very hard to offend. Somehow I overlooked the part of your soapbox where you did read about the flies, gotta slow down

. I was only clarifying MY intent

In my way of thinking, it is conceivable that the infection "could" be transmitted by anything from ants to water in that it can live in/on the ground and on surfaces for a long time. There is nothing o say it can't be "moved" along an unconventional route. This only means that there may be a "silent" den of CL lurking unseen. IF you have a large herd of meat animals close by, close could be a few miles by the way, with CL. IF you have a mouse visit said herd because of all the tasty grain that gets dropped or just living in the field. Said mouse 'could" come in contact with the pus from an abscess and transfer that bacteria to another mouse, which transfers to another, and so on down the line, until it ends up at your place. Now you have tested in the past and always tested negative, however you now have an animal with an abscess. Your herd is closed, so where did it come from. Yes this scenario is far fetched, however it IS conceivable. IF a mouse could transmit it, why couldn't a fly or any other animal. A lot of goat/sheep herders/ranchers say they don't have CL because they have never seen an abscess. A whole lot would find they do have it if they actually test for it. Out of sight, out of mind, its not there. Many also don't keep the same goats for more than a year or so, just long enough to breed and get a crop of kids to "improve" the doe/buck. IF there was a problem, its now "gone" with the sale? CL is more rampant than anyone believes.
I will get off my

now that everyone is

southerngurl · #23 03/18/09, 09:57 PM

from article

Quote:

CL is a fact of life in goats (and sheep). If you don't have it yet, you will have it.

Sounds a lot like what a lady who had CL and CAE positive animals told me when I was looking for my first goats. It's plain to see it's not true by looking at all the CL free herds out there.

kierababy16 · #24 03/19/09, 12:16 AM

We do not really have any flies right now. We are also the only one in our neighborhood that even have goats. So I am pretty sure, she does not have it.

stanb999 · #25 03/19/09, 04:22 AM

To me it looks like a mouth abscess. From a piece of stick or hay stuck in her teeth.

The bump is too far forward. CL forms in the lymph nodes. They are like at jaw level on the head but behind the ear. Not in the cheek.

KimM · #26 03/19/09, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kierababy16

I read and researched about CL. But im still a little confused on how they get it? She has not been off our property, she has not come into contact with any other goats besides our own.

If you've been to any sale barns, other farms that knowingly (or not) have CL, you can carry CL pathagens (as well as a mulititude of others) home in the treads of your shoes by infected soil or manure.
Your goat's lump *could* be something other than CL and it does sound like it could be related to the eye infection but you'll never know unless you have a veterinarian test it. Wishin' you the best outcome!

kierababy16 · #27 04/14/09, 05:39 PM

I unfortanetly have to say that it I believe it is CL. we will probaly be putting her to sleep in a couple of days.

Goat Servant · #28 04/14/09, 09:19 PM

Oh, please dont put her down until you can get a test run on her. I have no experience with Cl or CAE but unless you are sure I wouldnt put her down. Dont go by what you believe...in this case seeing is not believing. Hon you need to have it checked. It could very well be a piece of hay or something that's causing this infection.
All our best to you!

LaManchaPaul · #29 04/14/09, 09:20 PM

Awful... I'm so sorry. From my viewpoint it is better safe than sorry. However, I'd have to be sure first.

Did you have a CL test run on the lump? Could you post an updated foto?

Paul

kierababy16 · #30 04/15/09, 12:03 AM

We are taking her to the vet tom. My mom will not do anything to expensive on her. We can not risk the chance of it being CL as we have horses and other goats that could get it. I am almost positive it is CL. She has lost all the hair on the lump and now it looks like she is getting a second lump on the other side. I do not want to put her down, but like I said we cannot risk it. I will take an updated picture tom. From all the pics I have seen online of Cl i am almost poitive it is, it looks exactly like CL.

Idahoe · #31 04/15/09, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

She may have also picked up a splinter while scratching her cheek on the fence post.

I had this happen to my favorite goat, only I think it was something that poked her from the inside (lots of yummy thistles). When it drained it was runny, not cheesy and thick like CL abscesses are described.

I thought CL abscesses are the actual lymph node abscessed . . . so it follows that the abscesses will occur along the lymphatic channels. Not sure how the lymphatics drain the eye area, but I seriously doubt there are lymph nodes above the eye.

I am in the camp that says her eye problem may have been caused by the sore/abscess above her eye. I've seen that happen to HUMANS.

Nevertheless any lump on a goat makes ya shudder with fear of CL . . . it's good to be safe than sorry, and have her tested!

kierababy16 · #32 04/15/09, 12:02 PM

Here is a link to pictures:

http://s596.photobucket.com/albums/t...16/Tinkerbell/ They are marked NEW

PoultryFanatic · #33 04/15/09, 12:33 PM

I'm sorry to say that it looks identical to the pictures of CL that I've seen. I still wouldn't put her down until a sample is tested though, just to be 100% positive.

susanne · #34 04/15/09, 12:41 PM

i have not seen cl in pictures like this on your doe. for me it just looks more like she was very irritated because of her eye, scratched on a post and got a splinter in there.
i still would have it tested to be on safe side but i doubt that this is cl.
the location just does not fit.

susanne · #35 04/15/09, 12:44 PM

woops, looked again, there is one pics that looks it might be cl. i was looking at the picture were the sore was over the eye and missed the other one.
if a second abcsess came up i would also think cl.
very sorry for you and your doe

hoofinitnorth · #36 04/15/09, 12:48 PM

The CL test is very affordable. Even if you put her down, have them test a sample *from the lump* and not just her blood. They will culture for anaerobes and tell you if CL is present. Also, have blood drawn on all your goats to test and retest in 6 months.

If you do not test, you will always wonder and if it was CL and you didn't know it, you will not have known you needed to protect the other existing and future goats.

I know you said you bought from a respected breeder, but this is why we always always always demand copies of *whole herd* testing for CAE, CL, and Johne's before we buy. All the honest breeders will have them ready and waiting or even offer them up before you ask. Most are very proud to have whole negative herds and will advertise that fact if they are actually spending the time and money to test regularly. It's another reason that I always tell people that even if they have the paperwork to state the whole herd is negative, it comes down to how much you trust that person. There are people out there that play funny money with testing.

I'm not saying this is the case with the OP's goats, just that it happens and these are ways you can protect yourself, including testing your own goats regularly.

LaManchaPaul · #37 04/15/09, 02:06 PM

Kiera, I am sorry to say that this lump is acting exactly like a maturing CL lump. Please isolate her in a place that when it ruptures, it will not get onto/into your area of clean goats. Do this immediately because it looks very mature. It will rupture.

The last thing you want is to go out to see a yellow stringy dangling.

I'd also advise the breeder and send these pictures. Visit the breeder to see if you see evidence of lumps or scars where they have ruptured in the herd. This is not to place blame but to try and control a nasty problem. This goat was exposed to CL somewhere and from your posts, it WAS NOT at your farm.

You might treat this lump with an injection from the vet that will kill the bacteria inside this one lump. However, your situation doesn't go away with this lump. There are probably others inside the lung or where you can’t see it.

For me it would be unethical to keep the goat or transfer it so that it would infect healthy goats or sheep.

I am so sorry, and I feel your pain. However that lump looks and acts so certain to me. Forgive me for speaking so bluntly. I too am a newbie, but with this I have experience. It is anguish, but our commitment to a healthy herd is paramount.

Best to you.
Paul

shiandpete.1 · #38 04/15/09, 04:41 PM

Kiera
I don't think that CL can be passed on to a horse. None the less have it lanced and tested, if she has been on your property since 2 weeks, and the breeder where she came from does not have CL then most likely it is not and is only an infection from a splinter. However if it is CL you might want to think about who may have had animals there on your property before you did. CL can live in the soil.

susanne · #39 04/15/09, 05:20 PM

yes it can and will pass on to other warm blooded animals and to humans. this is why it is called zoonotic disease.

kierababy16 · #40 04/15/09, 06:29 PM

We called a vet and he told us that it will not be contagious to the horses. He is coming out tom, to lance and test it.