CL? Please Help!

Here is Canada, we do have great snow drifts!!! lol,

But we also have a vaccine that can be bought right now, I just can't recall the name, its made for sheep, I have to find out if its for goats as well, I will let you know as soon as I remember to stop in the feed store and read the label!

Melissa

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Fergusons Family Farm
Lanark County in Beautiful Ontario
http://www.freewebs.com/fergusonsfamilyfarm/
We raise sheep, cattle, poultry, rabbits and horses.
Melissa

You mean it's finally available? I've been trying to get it for two years now!

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"Crivens!"

Half Caper Farm - breeding Saanens, Boers and Nigerian Dwarfs

Yeah, it's called Glanvac. Pfizer bought the company and is now manufacturing it, but for some reason, they can't or won't sell it in the US.

http://www.pfizeranimalhealth.com.au...-products.aspx

I'm in the NE corner of WA state, not all that far from the border. Last summer I called the "closest" feed stores north of the border and found one that stocks it and was going to go for a visit. I chickened out, though. I couldn't think of a place in a tiny car to "stash" the chilled contraband.

Maybe I just need to find myself a Canadian friend...

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...g?t=1232408091

It was really yucky on the outside so we cleaned it up and this is what it looks like runny yellow puss. The stuff on the outside did not look thick or anything. We got the runny stuff cleaned up to. There is still a little ball there but nothing squeezes out. Will this just need to heal up or is this a sign of CL? So what do you think by the pictures?

Not to be picky but the pics are almost too close-up. That is a usual spot for CL to crop up but it almost looks like it's more forward over the jaw so it COULD be something else. I would be extremely suspicious though.
This is what I think you should do at this point - I'd get her penned up by herself. Get that swabbed and cultured NOW. Have blood pulled on the others to test. Move the other goats somewhere else and strip the pen(s) down, (burn the bedding) and scrub/saturate every inch of it, walls, feeders, floor, and everything within 6 feet of the pens with something strong, several times - I don't really know what would be best to use.
I don't know enough about the vaccines to comment. Read that link to that article over good.
I really feel for you, good luck.

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Cloven Trail Farm
Lord help me be the person my dog thinks I am!

Ja-Lyn's Radio Flyer, aka "Rad" on his 17th birthday.
9/14/93 -12/3/10.
Rest peacefully my soulmate, I'll love you forever.

Tek-Trol is the only cleaner that I know will kill the CL bacterium(other than formaldehyde). One of your local feed stores may carry it, maybe a local vet knows where you can get some. Otherwise, there are several catalog places where you can order it, like Jeffers.

There's a sheep cl vac available in the us, I think it's called Cas-bac. Some have said it works great on goats, others say not at all. This could be due to high expectations beyond the recommended use, though. I'm not sure.

Yes definately do everything you can to clean up their pen, with what I don't know. If the others do develop an abcess, make sure you extract the pus (I recommend the vet, not yourself) so they don't burst on your property again. If it is CLA, Bottle feed the kids, and prepare a clean (read unused recently) environment where they can be raised where none of your adult goats have been.
HF

Okay I will but I don't even know where to begin or what to do how do you swab it? Like with what? And where do I send it. Do I go to the vet or what? I am super clueless. Off to read the articles I have again and will check back here.

We are now afraid if Rose and Snow are now affected since they are still in her old pen that they could give it to others we have separated in other pens. I have no empty pens. HELP!!!

Isolation is imperative to keep possible infection contained.
Your vet must do the swap/sample and send it in. They have protocols they have to follow for sending in samples containing biologically hazardous materials.
Can you buy a few cattle panels and set up some small, temporary pens away from the others?

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Cloven Trail Farm
Lord help me be the person my dog thinks I am!

Ja-Lyn's Radio Flyer, aka "Rad" on his 17th birthday.
9/14/93 -12/3/10.
Rest peacefully my soulmate, I'll love you forever.

Test the pus. Get Trek-trol. Rake the pens. bleach the fences & whatnot. Burn the feeders & build new. Apply Trek-trol. Apply iodine to the open abcess & partition that goat off. Wait for results from the testing. Use cattle panels if you are at all able to get a clean area(back lawn?).

There is a procedure using Formalin & injecting it into the walled off abcess, just before it bursts. I don't know how legal it is, but supposedly it works good if you spot the abcesses in time, and over time CLA will cease within your herd.
You can find the article here: http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...LFormalin.html
Obviously you care about your goats a whole bunch. I hope all works out for you.
HF

Forgot to add, most importantly take a deep breath.
HF

The back lawn won't work because of fruit trees and plants. I could put them in with my buck but then he might get it AHHHH! We are about to eat 2 does as soon as they kid in April but if we put them in there and they had it then we couldn't eat the does. Also the buck would be breeding my pregnant goats how does that work? I just need to cry.

It spreads via the excudus from the lump (so it has to burst or be open, like your doe) If they have no lumps, slims the chances of it spreading. I think I would take the precaution of wiping down their hooves with a 10% bleach solution or something, as an added measure before changing pens? The exception would be internal abcesses, where I understand coughing can spread it.

Added: Take a deep breath. Re-read the articles, learn the disease, how it's contracted, how it's spread, how to treat/manage/cull for it, how to prevent it. Then, do your best, it's all you can do.
HF

When I take them out should I burn the hay or can they still eat it? The timing is HORRIBLE as I just bought hay and they had 8 bales in their pen. I usually put quite a few bales in there for them to play on. That is a lot of wasted hay but my does are worth the money I put in the hay obviously. I also obviously care to much for them just to give them it if it's bad. I guess giving it to the CL doe wouldn't hurt or would it? So what do I do with the hay?

Just looking at the spot, I'd say it's VERY likely to be CL.

Test. Isolate. Vaccinate.

Your property is now infected, if it is CL. No ifs, ands, or butts. Any 'clean' goat on your property WILL contract it, if not now, then later in a stressful time of life. (food change, pregnancy, kidding, temperature change, OMG it's raining...)

Isolation is difficult. Make the iso pens (you'll want several, all separate from each other) as FAR away as possible, and never go into the pen. IF you do, burn the clothes you were wearing, and wear rubber gloves. Iso all animals with an abscess, and culture them immediately. Put down all positives. Pull kids at birth and vaccinate all incoming stock and young stock with a cl vaccine at a young age. This WILL make them test positive but unless they were positive before vaccinated, they won't have an abscess meaning it can't be spread (the vaccine is antibodies to the disease, which shows positive on tests). Always do positive chores last - and as I said, don't go in their pen.

People say the test isn't accurate but I think that's all fooey. With a disease, antibodies will be present in the blood stream and is what testing looks for. Even if it's not 100% accurate (very few tests of any sort are), it's still helpful in the elimination of the disease. Especially since not all abscesses are external.

If it were me and I had a cl abscess burst, My goats would not be for sale, would not be bred, would not encounter other people's goats... Likely, I would go through and butcher them all... And consider moving. It's that serious. It's just to unethical to continue breeding or showing or selling, when you're simply exposing other healthy goats to the disease.

I know Vicky had to do preventative CL work on her herd a long time ago, hopefully she'll chime in with what she did. I know she's told the story before.

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Dona Barski

"Breed the best, eat the rest"

Caprice Acres

French and American Alpines. CAE, Johnes neg herd. Abscess free. LA, DHIR.

I am okay with everyone but my precious dear Rose. I will do ANYTHING to keep her alive. What is it? And yes I have to touch her pet her let her give me kisses no other will do. So your saying she will get it no matter what?

Back on the topic of vaccines.

That is the one I was thinking!!!

Glanvac, is no longer available for us here. We can no longer get it. Only Tasvac, and it doesn't cover CL. I can't remember the reason why we can't get Glanvac but its no longer stocked here in Ontario anyways!

Melissa

__________________
Fergusons Family Farm
Lanark County in Beautiful Ontario
http://www.freewebs.com/fergusonsfamilyfarm/
We raise sheep, cattle, poultry, rabbits and horses.
Melissa

it's highly infectious and likely all will get it - even if they never have an (external) abscess in their life. I would actually move everybody AWAY from the main pen, leaving your main pen as the iso area for lumps/positives since it's already assuredly infected. This means you'll need a new small barn and milking room if you're milking. And new fencing. and a new trough and supplies. You can see why CL is such a detriment and hard to manage, meaning most just get butchered upon contraction.

First, test the pus/blood and iso out the non symptomatic. Then worry what to do.

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Dona Barski

"Breed the best, eat the rest"

Caprice Acres

French and American Alpines. CAE, Johnes neg herd. Abscess free. LA, DHIR.

Some people have used Case-Bac on their goats with no ill effects, but others have had very serious reactions. It's because of those reactions that the mfg. recommends against using the vaccine with goats.
http://www.colorado-serum.com/vets/vol_2/vol2_10.htm

They're working on one that is safe for goats, though if you're planning on taking a trip to Canada (or have a Canadian friend), you can get GlanVac.

Get the pus tested, but more importantly... calm down. CL is not good, but it's not a death sentence, either. Your goats are home-goats, right? Not show? Even if the test comes back positive, this is not the end of the world. Do NOT put your goat(s) down...especially without having a definitive test result.

I quite possibly have a CL positive doe. I'll be sending in a blood sample (haven't had an abscess to test in over a year)... seeing the pics, the discharge looked completely different. A lot of people euthanize upon seeing an abscess in that area, but while all CL abscesses are abscesses... not all abscesses are CL.

Draw blood from each of the goats, send it in, and take a deep breath. This will be OK.