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HappyFarmer · #21 12/26/08, 06:31 PM

Our Wethers go for 100 at 3mos, Doelings start at 250 up to 350, bucklings start at 150 up to 400. Pricing depends on the quality of the kid, the lineage behind the breeding, and the purpose of the goat(for instance a 4-H child would get a break). To date we have not sold for meat but are working our way there as we grow our herd.

No Susanne I didn't take that as a personal attack. Just wanted new breeders aware there are meat breeders who test. And though CL may run rampant in Boer herds, I've heard CAE runs rampant in dairy herds. And yes, kids are sold for meat prior to a year of age, however the breeding stock used to produce that offspring should be sound, as they would be more productive if they lived to give many offspring to be the most cost-effective.

I'm just trying to make the point that disease tested stock can be both dairy and meat. The OP shouldn't limit her choices to just dairy based on a general statement and 2 warnings about meat goats.

HF

jordan · #22 12/26/08, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyFarmer

I'll go as far as to say that we go beyond many dairy breeders-based on the fact that many post on this forum about CLA & CAE, but don't add the recommendation Johne's testing-a serious wasting disease. Isn't that important, too?

It behooves all of us to become informed on these diseases & do our part towards irradification.

I'm glad to see ANYONE test!
I've brought up the Johnes issue myself here numerous times in the past and was poo-pooed by many saying it is not as common. I think it's just not tested for as often and people just don't tend to talk about it. Frankly it scares me more than any of the others. It's a death sentence that can wipe out your entire herd. People can manage CAE, but not Johnes once you have it.
Johnes testing is the first thing I ask about and the second is what type of Johnes test they did.

togg75 · #23 12/26/08, 07:49 PM

beccachow.....if you just want a pet I suggest that you get pigmy or some other small breed. you will spend less on feed bills.

I think that you eventually will want to taste milk produced from your own land. I know I always did and look toward the day (very soon) when I get to drink milk from my own livestock.

You have to choose...... would wait until the spring when the hay bill will be gone to purchase if you are not interested in buying a bred doe to be a family milker...

deetu · #24 12/26/08, 08:52 PM

Hee hee... I have Boers for farm tax breaks but if I was to do something for fun, I would do Nigerian Fainters, with blue eyes no less. They are small, cute and fainters are unusual.

thatcompchick · #25 12/27/08, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

unfortunately, statistics tell a different story. i'm glad that there are some meat goat breeder that are testing. but most of them think the animals are only raised for meat and rarely need to go beyond a year of age. so, what is the point? dairy goat breeder are breeding for long life. the goat should at least be productive for ten years.
see the point here? this was not meant to be a personal attack

As a meat goat breeder, I agree with Susanne. Most breeders who just sell for meat, never have to worry about cl or cae, as their offspring are TERMINAL - in that they are off to auction or the dinner plate before signs of these diseases come about. Now, often, as meat goat breeders, we feel also we don't have to worry about cae or johnes or cl because this is a problem show and dairy goat breeders brought to the scene GRIN - how's that for biased!

Now since fainters are slow growing, and you have the meat aninal on your farm for about a year, we are seeing an increase in breeders testing. A lot of this has to do with the influx of Nigies that came in about 5 years to some herds ago bringing nice lumps, and the old TN folks buying from auction trucks. There are enough breeders of our breed that test that there is no excuse not to buy from a tested herd. THen again on the flip side there have been whole herds destroyed due to Johnes and rampant cl.

I feel that any person that sells even a single wether for a pet should have their adults tested for cl/cae/johnes (the false neg spoken of are usually because the tests are done too soon, or just once - I will repost the UK link on the stats on the cl test if need be) - basically, cl is a ZOONOTIC disease - means you, your horse, your child etc can come in contact with the bacteria and get it.

On cl -
Fact - a goat with cl can live its entire life without a lump - you won't get cl from this goat.
Fact - a goat with cl can live its entire life without and external lump - you CAN get cl from this goat, but you'll never know it is positive, because you didn't spend the $10 to blood test the darn thing. It was believed goats didn't get internal, however that is found statistically, now that goats are more popular untrue. My butcher is seeing more and more condemned carcasses on the kill floor due to multiple lesions that are subcutaneous (or still on the internal glands or in the lungs or kidneys etc no external signs)

As a breeder who does sell breeding stock, I have a lot of customers with small children, other animals, and I couldn't sleep at night if I sold or even gave away an animal that potentially had a disease that could harm them or their stock.

I think THAT is a line that shouldn't be distinct to dairy or meat!

If you want to buy from them - I would recommend paying them to test the dam and sire for cl/cae/johnes. Not a guarantee, but it's a start.

Andrea
www.arare-breed.net
www.faintinggoat.net

susanne · #26 12/27/08, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatcompchick

. Not a guarantee, but it's a start.

Andrea
www.arare-breed.net
www.faintinggoat.net

i absolutely agree

with all thise diseases, knowing the status of the animal is the key.

copperpennykids · #27 12/27/08, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyFarmer

I feel like I have to pipe in here. I raise meat goats & I've tested my ENTIRE herd for CLA, CAE, and Johnes going on 4 years now. Initially TB & Brucellosis was included in the testing. I've purchased my breeding stock from herds that tested also. We keep a closed herd as of 11 months ago, and we don't show limiting any new exposure. We practice biosecurity. We keep up the same standard as any dairy breeder out there. I'll go as far as to say that we go beyond many dairy breeders-based on the fact that many post on this forum about CLA & CAE, but don't add the recommendation Johne's testing-a serious wasting disease. Isn't that important, too?

I feel it's unfair that diary breeders slam meat goat breeders about untested herds. There are plenty of dairy herds that do not test. Personally, I think it's more of a breeder mentality. These diseases cost both dairy and meat breeders a lot of money in lost revenues. It behooves all of us to become informed on these diseases & do our part towards irradification.
HF
Raising her hands because meat breeders care about the future health of our breeds, too!

I have to say - Excellent Post! We raise both Saanens and Boer goats and all are tested every year and all are CAE negative and CL Free. Many good and concientious Boer breeders out there. You do need to check herd health, ask for records (and if someone doesn't routinely test you can ask to have the animal tested, but you still need to trust the breeder that the test and the animal tested are the same you are purchasing.) Why we always recommend that you purchase from a reputable breeder you can trust.

BUT the same holds true for dairy goats - too often have I met and sold nice clean Saanens to someone who had purchased CAE positive dairy goat stock from another breeder (who conveniently side-stepped the question of CAE by saying "oh we haven't had that in years and we are a closed herd". Heartbreaking for them in that they were attached to the goats and because their trust was violated by these "breeders".

Anyway, it is unfair to paint all Boer breeders with such a broad brush, just as it is unfair to say that Dairy folks spread disease through shows (which is also not true - the most you might get is something uncomfortable like ringworm, although we have never caught anything). I am referring to ADGA shows here.

Now local fairs where folks drag in animals that I don't even want to walk past their pens - rough coats, abscesses, feet not trimmed, stunted. Just a nightmare!! And I hate to say that 98% of those disgusting pitiful creatures were Dairy goats. Which is why we only take terminal animals to the Fairs - Boer market wethers.

Oh and I just have to add, that we breed for the same long productive lives for our Boer goats as we do for our Saanens. We want to see them producing, with strong healthy attached udders and good feet and legs well into their 10th year. Disease free stock of excellent genetics that are well-managed will do just that.

P.S. If you live near Happy Farmer, then that would be an excellent place to start for Boer goats. I have a feeling you would get a mentor in addition to some nice animals! Just start with healthy and go from there. And do be prepared to pay a little more for that stock - don't be penny-wise and pound foolish!

copperpennykids · #28 12/27/08, 09:16 AM

P.S. Just wanted to add, that it is never a good idea to take on an animal with a problem - such as mastitis. You really don't want your first experience to be with an animal you have to doctor and still may never get better. Too many nice animals out there for you to have to "settle" for something unhealthy. I mean, what good is a meat animal that can't produce meat because she doesn't have milk for her kids?! (Same applies to Dairy animals!)

thatcompchick · #29 12/27/08, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperpennykids

I have to say - Excellent Post! We raise both Saanens and Boer goats and all are tested every year and all are CAE negative and CL Free. Many good and concientious Boer breeders out there. You do need to check herd health, ask for records (and if someone doesn't routinely test you can ask to have the animal tested, but you still need to trust the breeder that the test and the animal tested are the same you are purchasing.) Why we always recommend that you purchase from a reputable breeder you can trust.

BUT the same holds true for dairy goats - too often have I met and sold nice clean Saanens to someone who had purchased CAE positive dairy goat stock from another breeder (who conveniently side-stepped the question of CAE by saying "oh we haven't had that in years and we are a closed herd". Heartbreaking for them in that they were attached to the goats and because their trust was violated by these "breeders".

Anyway, it is unfair to paint all Boer breeders with such a broad brush, just as it is unfair to say that Dairy folks spread disease through shows (which is also not true - the most you might get is something uncomfortable like ringworm, although we have never caught anything). I am referring to ADGA shows here.

Now local fairs where folks drag in animals that I don't even want to walk past their pens

Ok...well, I have seen a lot of cl scars at ADGA shows. This may be a north eastern thing. And I meant it as a 'wide spread' not fair type thing - to say that it goes both ways on the 'big paint brush' thing ;-)

I am sooo wanting a Sable...how come you're not closer????

Andrea

copperpennykids · #30 12/27/08, 10:46 AM

Sables are cool - Patty from New York is working on Sables - maybe you should get in touch with her (beautiful Saanens too!)

What may look like CL abscess scars most likely are CDT shot scars (and we have a few of those, especially our older does when we used to give the shots in the shoulders until another dairy goat person took pity on us and told us to give it behind the front leg in that excess skin. Since you don't shave a Boer down with a #10 blade, not likely to see those CDT scars, while the dairy girls don't get to hide anything once they are shaved!

Not all abscesses are CL - location and type of abscess are critical. And again, ask around - Good and honest breeders have good reputations and dubious ones - well, let's just say folks know who they are too.

HappyFarmer · #31 12/27/08, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperpennykids

P.S. If you live near Happy Farmer, then that would be an excellent place to start for Boer goats. I have a feeling you would get a mentor in addition to some nice animals! Just start with healthy and go from there. And do be prepared to pay a little more for that stock - don't be penny-wise and pound foolish!

Thanks Copperpennykids, but no Boers here! Strictly Myotonics. And yes we've mentored a few other breeders, some of whom didn't purchase from us. We feel the more educated owners are, the better off goats in general will be.
HF

copperpennykids · #32 12/27/08, 12:10 PM

Oops!

When someone says meat goats, my brain says "Boers". My advice still holds, however!

We also mentor and help folks who have never purchased an animal from us. Folks have helped us and shared knowledge and experience - the "pay it forward" thing, y'know.

thatcompchick · #33 12/27/08, 02:31 PM

Oh these are SO not CDT. I could go for, maybe just maybe, head stuck in fence (with a non horned goat)...

When's the last time you vax'd a goat under the ear? Also the breeders are open about it and just don't get that cl pos goat COULD be carrying it internally.

I DO know what you are talking about the granulomas. This is caused by an immune reaction in the dermis layers. And really not a good idea to lance or pop those, leaving the scar anyways.

The vets are cracking down in some states, but I had a discussion with a state vet in NY about this about a year ago, and scars are ok - but I'm noticing more and more that the judges are passing over scarred goats!

I don't travel that far for goats anymore. I'm awaiting to find a fully tested herd close by - and even then it has to be a Scrapies reg herd since I'm thinking of going into the survellience program.

Andrea

thatcompchick · #34 12/27/08, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyFarmer

Thanks Copperpennykids, but no Boers here! Strictly Myotonics. And yes we've mentored a few other breeders, some of whom didn't purchase from us. We feel the more educated owners are, the better off goats in general will be.
HF

Depending on the meatiness of Happy Farmer's goats, I'd say her pricing is very good! Esp cheap for a wether that could be 'et at $150 or so!

Andrea
www.arare-breed.net
www.faintinggoat.net

copperpennykids · #35 12/27/08, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatcompchick

Oh these are SO not CDT. I could go for, maybe just maybe, head stuck in fence (with a non horned goat)...

When's the last time you vax'd a goat under the ear? Also the breeders are open about it and just don't get that cl pos goat COULD be carrying it internally.

I DO know what you are talking about the granulomas. This is caused by an immune reaction in the dermis layers. And really not a good idea to lance or pop those, leaving the scar anyways.

Andrea

Okay, you win! We do not see that kind of abscess or scarring in the Pacific Northwest. Not at Boer goat shows or at Dairy Goat shows. Have to say that when we do attend a show, we always "rent" more pens than needed so that our goats have a complete buffer around them. We also try to get the far corner (less traffic). Good shows also go over the goats as they are unloaded and WILL make any suspect goats get back on the trailer. Therefore, folks just don't bring anything that isn't looking good. Of course, there are no immediate outward signs of CAE, which is why you must be extra careful at a show. The judges are quite good about washing their hands with baby wipes between examining goats as well.

christie · #36 12/27/08, 06:52 PM

I like the idea of taking a dairy wether. Thats my vote. And I love my nubians! Though I never had anything else...
As a dairy breeder I try to sell my kids first. Some doelings go and an occasional wether. But what wver is left goes in my fridge, and it hard for me not to love those lil ones up. {I try to dissociate from the animals that may someday be on my dinner table.}
So I would be glad to give up a wether as a pet!
Now Meat goat breeders they are all going for food any way! Thats their livly hood!

chris30523 · #37 12/27/08, 08:40 PM

I have boers and boers crosses and don't test my goats. My herd has been closed for four years. Most of my bucklings go for meat. I welcome anyone who wants to test the kids.So far I have had none test positive.The does I originally bought had had the vaccine and would test positive. I am looking to add a new buck this fall and will test him before I introduce him to my herd. I don't charge the high prices some of the breeders in the area do but I would if I tested all of the kids.
If I were looking for a pet for the kids I would make sure it was healthy. Bloodlines don't mean much in that case.

Cannon_Farms · #38 12/27/08, 08:56 PM

I have goats from three untested before me herds, Chris included (micks results pending) and have had none test positive. Not saying that you shouldnt, but it is possible to get a healthy goat even though the breeder doesnt test.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #39 12/28/08, 01:36 PM

I don't charge the high prices some of the breeders in the area do but I would if I tested all of the kids.
.....................................

$10, for the test itself, vacutainer tube, and shipping....if you could indeed raise your prices just for testing you would. It makes no economical sense not to. "A" kid test is a good start but in the grand scheme of things is only the starting point in herd health management of communicable/zoonic disease. Vicki

chris30523 · #40 12/28/08, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

I don't charge the high prices some of the breeders in the area do but I would if I tested all of the kids.
.....................................

$10, for the test itself, vacutainer tube, and shipping....if you could indeed raise your prices just for testing you would. It makes no economical sense not to. "A" kid test is a good start but in the grand scheme of things is only the starting point in herd health management of communicable/zoonic disease. Vicki

Good point Vicki
After the 10$ each for the test,labor and wages because I would have to hire someone to help me. It would make my wethers unmarketable as meat goats in this area.We are lucky to get 1.00 a lb on the hoof. I have looked into the costs on this and meat goats are not as cost effective as dairy animals. Meat goat people don't routinely test in this area,show people do.