OK, I can finally talk about this...

Dear Becca - I was the one who had the goat you read about. I am so so sorry. I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone...EVER. My experience mirrors yours.

My neighbor heard about my heartache and told my friend to tell me to take the goat to the processor next time. She said it is quick and humane. Her husband is a hunter and fully capable of shooting any of her animals (in fact they butcher their own chickens) but they don't. She explained the process to my friend. They put the sheep/goat on their back (we do this for trimming hooves) and it settles them down. I can't remember exactly but there is something about them kicking their feet that adds to the quickness of death when they make the cut. It's quick and painless.

I also talked to the vet tech (where my dogs and cats go) and she said that it is most likely not enough tranquilizer was given and that made the shot hurt so bad. And ...like your experience the vet couldn't find the vein and poked several times before going to his truck and getting shears to clip the hair in that area.

Now that I have heard your story...and of course, it was a different vet...I am wondering like others if this process works differently on goats. I really was upset with the vet.

I am so very sorry for your loss and your pain. Know that your heart was in the right place and you did the right thing for your precious goat. She's at the rainbow bridge and will be waiting for you with her tail wagging.

I have put a goat down by having the vet sedate then euthanize. The doe was given the first shot and she just sank down curled up like she was going to sleep. Then the vet said he needed to give her the second shot to stop her heart right away before her blood pressure was so low the shot was not effective. I have also put a horse down and a dog down doing this and never had a bad (if that is the expression to use,) time with it as you described. They all went peacefully.
That was a horrible experience for you but it was not something you should feel was your fault- you went the extra step to be kind.
The reason I have always insisted on this was that I have had two friends have horror stories about their horses struggling after the heart stopping shot was given- in one case the horse needed three shots before he finally went.
I think I would question the vet when I felt emotionally able to do it- maybe a different med or a larger amount might have prevented this. I certainly would ge the names of the meds he used.

You do have my sympathy- I would have been traumatized too. Bad enough to lose a pet without having that as your last memory. I hope you can feel better soon.

I'm so sorry you both had to go thru this... back in July, I had to have our much beloved nubian herd sire put to sleep. (yes, we could have shot him, but I trust in my vet & know he can do this & do it right) We all gathered out under a big shade tree. We gave Morrie a LARGE dose of sedative. It gave us time to talk to Morrie, love on him. As he became sleepy, we laid him down with his head in my daughter's lap. We waited another 10 minutes, just taking our time... making sure he was sound asleep. When he was given the actual solution, he simply slipped away. He took only one more breath, just a simple light one... we again just waited for a couple minutes (we were all softly crying.. even the vet) The vet listened for a heatbeat.. there was none, my gentle guy was gone. This is not the first goat we've put down this way... it won't be the last. In a painful emergency, yes we do shoot them. Last year I had to put my favorite doe down, by myself.....but when it's a situation where I know ahead of time, I'll be making the call. It allows us the time to kiss, cuddle, hug & say good-bye. You just need to have a vet who understands how much & what they need to give (there is no such thing as an over dose at this point.. the more, the better!)
again, I'm so sorry.
susie, mo ozarks

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"My darling girl, when are you going to understand that "normal" is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage."
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I am truly sorry for the loss of your pet and that it had to happen in such a way.

I don't know about goats, but I had a son, age 9 that broke both bones in his lower arm and jammed them into the wrist joint. The Dr's tried to put him out, but couldn't get him all the way under. DS laughed and laughed as the bones cracked and popped from the Drs' pulling, squeezing, pushing and pretty much doing everything except ripping the arm off to get the bones back into the correct position. DS doesn't remember a bit of it. DM remembers every sound.

I think a Dr or Vet would know if they truly felt something.

I'm not so sure now that it is a rare occurrence. Perhaps Vicky was right about the dosages being so different for goats and the vets not understanding that fully. Regardless, this experience is devastating for us, not to mention our beloved friends. I really wish there were an answer for what went wrong so that we can perhaps save another from an equally horrifying experience.

That same day I had an experience which changed my life. I immediately took a walk down one of our trails after putting Ying down. I looked up and about 20 feet from me was a cow elk. (Normally they run when they hear humans.) I know she heard Ying's cries because she looked at me and locked her glance as if to tell me she was so sorry. I could feel her empathy. I know that sounds crazy but it's true. Some friends wanted to hunt on our land and I was waivering back and forth. The economy is bad and they needed to fill their freezer for the winter. Our land is prime hunting land and a sure hunt. The very next day I told them my land would never be used for hunting anything other than predatory animals. That cow elk touched my heart and I promised her she and her friends would always be safe on the Ridge.

I dont think it is fair to be angry at the vet. Every animals body and reaction is different and they have no reason to assume one will be different. I work at a vet and animals are only tranqued if they are extremely aggitated. We used a barbituate and it isnt painfull but the brain reacts stranglely sometimes.

OMG, you poor thing. I can't find the words to express the sadness I feel for you. My ex used to say that goats are so stubborn that when they get to heaven, rather that walk through the pearly gates, they'll butt holes in the fence. I pray the vet was correct that she wasn't in pain. She was probably fighting the loss of control. Kind of like how small children fight sleep. I know the experience was mortifying for you, but find peace in you did what you had to do so she wouldn't suffer. I'm so terribly sorry that you had to go through this.

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Sometimes the last minute is the best one.

I am really sorry about your experience. I have worked for several vets as a technician and my husband is a biologist who currently uses euthanasia solution to put injured wildlife to sleep when necessary. The blue juice you are describing is pentobarbital which should be used after the admin of a traq, which you said was as performed. Someone mentioned perhaps it was a poassium solution, but blue juice is not potassium. Yes, potassium would be painful, especially if not given after a proper dose of tranq, we used to use potassium solution to euthaize after an animal was properly knocked out, but we would inject directly into the heart, stopping it instantly. My point in telling you this is so you understand that the blue juice should not be a painful IV injection at all, so please dont worry about any pain she may have suffered. My guess is that the vet may have underdosed her with the tranq--BUT--I say this very much not sure of it because I have NEVER been in a situation where an animal has not been given time and testing to be absolutely certain that the tranq had taken full effect on the animal. There are physical tests which can be performed simply to assess if the tranq is working, and my guess is that the vert was confident that there had been enough given based on physiological signs. Only under those circumstances should he have moved ahead withthe blue juice. Now, the blue juice could also have been underdosed, but I wouldnt expect such a reaction. Its possible that a low or quickly metabolized tranq dose allowed her to rouse just enough to fight it when the pentobarbital was trying to take effect. 15 min is a long time for fighting and struggling and vocalizing. My husband works with canids and sometimes there is the odd animal who does not conform to the typical dosing regimen for tranq. Sometimes there is one who will not go peacefully but will just hang on and on fighting and will need to be given 2-3 times the dose ordinarily necessary. That means it doesnt mean that your vet did anything wrong, just that your doe may have been an odd physiological case. In any event, of all the euthanasias I have been present for and performed myself, I do not believe that your doe likely felt any pain at all and it would be very highly unlikely that she would have been conscious enough to know anything of what was happening. Certainly not aware. The body does a lot of struggling on its own without any participation of the mind when it comes to the end of life. I would not worry at all if I were in your shoes that she felt pain or knew of her bodys struggle. I am only sorry for you that you had to endure the sadness and angst of the experience.

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Chris

2 dogs, 1 parrot, 2 horses, colorful flock of egg-layers, peafowl, dairy goats, porchful of hummers, and a garden full of monarchs

You guys are the best. As strong as she was, as hard as she fought for these past 2 months, I shouldn't be surprised that she still tried to hold on. I am just relieved that the blue stuff (he said it was an anesthetic of some kind) probably wasn't causing her pain. The potassium sounds like it could be a horrible thing if done incorrectly.

I surely wish I had a better last memory of her.

In my experience, the intensity of the remembering will ease up but it will take time. I lost my brother in February and it was not a good situation at all. He was taken off life support and it took a week for him to pass. The vision of him in that state is heart wrenching. Then in April I lost my beloved BoBo (german Shepherd) to a horrific horse accident that involved a huge amount of blood loss and me holding his shattered face in my hands while we raced to the vet. With both incidents I have flash backs that take my breath away. But as time goes on other memories start to come in and the bad ending ones are not as frequent and intense...I still second guess everything that was done with my brother and I still replay what I should have, could have done with BoBo. It has become easier to live with the feelings but I don't know if they will ever completely go away. So...my main point is that your not alone, it will ease up and it will take time...and soon good memories will help to replace the bad scene you have in your head right now. It's very fresh and raw..and I really know how it bad it just really sucks

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Teach only Love...for that is what You are

I'm sorry you had to go through that with your goat. I've only had one goat euthanized by a vet. Angel went to the vet for a C section and it was done by local anesthesia. When the kids were delivered and the vet went to sew her back up, he noticed the uterus was badly torn and the tissue was not healthy. She would have had to be spayed to save her life. I elected to have her put down as she was shocky by then and I need goats who can produce milk. The vet used the same pink stuff they use on cats and dogs. Angel went peacefully. I usually have my friend's son put down goats for me with a gun. I did have one cat who took extra medication to be put to sleep. He was an ond cat with thyroid problems. The vet said it took the extra dose because his heart was weak and his circulation poor.

I'm so sorry for you and yes, that is very traumatizing for you. I believe it affects each animal differently. I've heard about 50/50 stories concerning horses and some just go peacefully and others go crazy fighting it. I've also shot stray cats and DH has put down a goat and 2 sheep with a well placed bullet and they still jerk even tho they are "gone".

We've had horses/donkeys sedated for quite a few things and just two months ago I had my first donkey "fight" sedation for his castration and he got quite hard to handle and it took three of us to hold him.

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ADGA Nigerian Dwarf and MDGA Mini Mancha goats for show, home use and pets www.dbarjacres.webs.com Located in North central Wisconsin

I wonder if her lack of circulation in her back end (recall she was paralyzed in the rear) had something to do with how long it took the blue juice to work? Even though he injected it into the jugular? He also IM'd the trank into her back end. Interesting thought.

I too, appreciate an owner staying to the end. See if you can find someone now, with a gun to help you out if you are in the same position again. We have a dear friend who would help out if hubby was away. I am lucky, my hubby has shot many animals on our farm including a suffering pony. He then hand dug the hole to bury her!

Beccachow,

My experience with Fawn was exactly like yours. Fawn's condition was similar to Sandy's. She was partially paralized, but could lumber along if I stood her up. She liked to find a place to stand where her front was higher than her hind end, and tilt her head back. It sounds like the star-gazing that you described.

I couldn't make myself shoot her, so I called the vet. She came with a chemical called Beuthanaze, I think. It called for 1cc per 10 lbs of body weight. Fawn was 75 to 80 lbs, so the vet prepared a 10cc dose. I held Fawn's head while the vet slipped the needle into the jugular vein. At the first squeeze on the needle, Fawn began bawling and thrashing. I held her tight. When she didn't slow down within about a minute, the vet drew another 10cc and put that into the jugular. Fawn thrashed harder and cried louder.

In another minute, the vet drew another 10cc and used a long needle to inject it directly into the heart. in a few seconds, Fawn stopped thrashing and bleating, but continued breathing. Her pulse was weak, but still there. The vet drew a fourth 10cc dose and put it into the other jugular vein. A long time later, Fawn finally stopped breathing and her heart was still.

It took 20 minutes.

It was rough, I can tell you. My pretty girl deserved a better end.

I don't blame the vet. I believe the chemical was properly administered. I think there was something about Fawn's condition that caused her reaction to the chemical.

I should have taken her to our excellent state facility for a post-mortem. I was too upset to drive. I dug her a long, wide, deep grave in one of her favorite resting spots and finally laid her to rest.

I go by to see her and dress up the grave. It's in the pasture, so the cows walk on it. Someday it will blend in, but not this year. I hauled in some potting soil to plant flowers there next spring. It will be great if all her buddies will come by and have a bite of flowers on her.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

Wow, it certainly seems as though there is something to this. I am afraid I will have to think twice about my methods in the future. I am so sorry to read so many others who shared my horrible experience. I truly believe they are all running around now in a pasture with no end, waiting for us to get there.

I couldn't do the necropsy either, I preferred to bury her here.

Powderhooves, your story about the elk was beautiful.

hmmmm.. as I mentioned we've had no problems at all, putting the goats to sleep. My vet uses a LARGE dose of Ketamine first (not iv, just IM) except for the usual *ouch* from a shot, there is no immediate reaction. They slowly get wobbly and sleepy. After they are all the way asleep, he gives the pink stuff they use on dogs & cats.. again a BIG dose... (I can't help but wonder if your vets were to use different drugs/higher amounts if your passings would be as easy as ours have blessedly been. I had a dog once, years ago that had a hard time... NEVER again, we always insist on a sedation overdose FIRST, before the *real* injection. I don't care how much more it costs...)
susie

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"My darling girl, when are you going to understand that "normal" is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage."
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What is the pink stuff called, yarrow?

I may be wrong (and someone correct me if I am) BUT.. I *think* it's called
Euthasol Euthanasia Solution. This one my vet does give IV (after the animals are soundly sleeping) when we recently had to have our old boston terrier lady put to sleep we actually used acepromazine, BEFORE going to the vet, then gave her some more sedation, THEN the pink stuff... my daughter was holding her & said she never felt the slightest twitch or muscle tightening.. she just simply slipped away.
susie, mo ozarks

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"My darling girl, when are you going to understand that "normal" is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage."
http://www.agesagoacresnubians.com/

Genebo, I'm curious...did the vet give Fawn Katamine (tranq) first? When we do dogs/cats at the vet it is just like how Yarrow described. Large dose of katamine and then the pink stuff (I don't know what it's called and I work there!) The dog/cat is really, REALLY zonked out before the pink stuff.

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Teach only Love...for that is what You are