Does this doe have good confirmation?

knoxgal · #41 10/14/08, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

before i sell a $150 to $200 milker, she would be butchered/ sold for meat.
a good milker, even not show quality, is worth more then that.
cows milk in the store is $4 per gallon.
if this doe is a good milker, she will give at least 2000lb or 250 gallon ($1000 you would spent to get store bought yucky milk) per year plus some kids for meat (if bucks) or at least $150 per doe kid sale. here she cost me about $350 to $400 in keeping her on my place. hay and grain is expensive in my area.
now, somebody tells me why a good milker should go for meat price?????????

I am not selling milk, I need it for my children?

susanne · #42 10/14/08, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoxgal

I am not selling milk, I need it for my children?

how much do you pay for cows milk in the store? how much for crea, cheese or ice cream?

i have a friend who was complaining once how expencive a goat is and to keep her. i told her to put a jar in the kitchen and every time she used a gallon of milk, put the money it would have cost in there.
after a year it will add up a lot and now she realizes how valuable her goats are.

some people have difficulty to imagine but understand better if they do it this way.

cathleenc · #43 10/14/08, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

how much do you pay for cows milk in the store? how much for crea, cheese or ice cream?

i have a friend who was complaining once how expencive a goat is and to keep her. i told her to put a jar in the kitchen and every time she used a gallon of milk, put the money it would have cost in there.
after a year it will add up a lot and now she realizes how valuable her goats are.

some people have difficulty to imagine but understand better if they do it this way.

Susanne,
talk about not paying yourself! If you also put a note in the account books to pay yourself for the time you spend caring for the goats, the goat pen and pasture, doing the milking, cleaning up the milking equipment, and educating/caring for your goat - that grocery store milk starts looking like a great buy. You can go on vacation with grocery store milk, too.

Mrs. Jo · #44 10/14/08, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

So how much do you have in the goat who you are selling for those prices when she is in milk? Even at $250 are you even making your money back for grain and hay? Do you never pay yourself labor? If you are new and just started then you are selling them for less than your purchase price plus feed?

Even a doe who is JUST for family milk (and what a sad commentary on the homestead) she is worth more than $250.

And then in the next thread you will talk about how there is no money in goats. There would be no money in anything if you sold it for less than it costs. This is government type thinking about the economy

Vicki

If her offspring are not better than her, why would they be priced higher? Of course, we are ignoring inflation here-maybe we shouldn't. Lots of ordinary goats out there come from ordinary goats and they go on to have ordinary goats. You can't sell ordinary goats for prices that reflect the price of animals who are above that.

To make a point- I'm an ordinary woman. I'm not 6 ft and size 8 with really large you know whats, but I still manage to have a happy life and have happy children. So too with an ordinary goat, they can milk and breed happily without commanding the prices of a supermodel. Now it really makes no sense for me to ditch all my "ordinary" healthy stock and go running off after the supermodels. It also makes no economic sense for me to price my goats as if they were supermodels. Any breeder who looks at mine will know they are not supermodels and pretty soon it will be known that I took advantage of folks who were beginners.

It's also insulting to those folks who breed supermodels. Sorry, I respect those breeders who have the knowledge and ability to blend bloodlines until they get fantastic goats. I'm not going to say that mine are equal to theirs-because they aren't.

Ya' gotta count your blessings when you have them. An ordinary goat can be a good thing to have, if it's healthy and does what you want it to. That is the essence of a homestead goat.

I understand where you are coming from Vicki, but I don't think it's possible for everyone considering what they have. I would love to get a wage for my labor, but it's not happening any time soon. Upgrading is going slowly here as I make good use of the animals that I have. I hope you see my point. I'm not just trying to argue with you.

Mrs. Jo · #45 10/14/08, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

I am a moderator on a small forum and I have also made this mistake a few times. Its an embarrassing but an honest and *very easy* mistake to make. I had no idea until I became a moderator.........

Well, that makes me feel better. I feel pretty sure it was just an honest mistake, but I don't know anything about forum technology.

susanne · #46 10/14/08, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathleenc

Susanne,
talk about not paying yourself! If you also put a note in the account books to pay yourself for the time you spend caring for the goats, the goat pen and pasture, doing the milking, cleaning up the milking equipment, and educating/caring for your goat - that grocery store milk starts looking like a great buy. You can go on vacation with grocery store milk, too.

then you are better off not getting goats at all and buy grocery cows milk

but hey, we want to live healthier with better food too right?????

then you must also admit that it also cost a lot of your time (or breeders time) to raise that kid to a healthy family milker.

or is that labor for free at your farm?

ozark_jewels · #47 10/14/08, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo@ LaudoDeumFa

Well, that makes me feel better. I feel pretty sure it was just an honest mistake, but I don't know anything about forum technology.

You know where the two quote buttons are at the bottom right of each post? And the one most often used(at least by me) is the button furthest to the left?? Well, when your a moderator, thats where the edit button is instead of the quote button. Anyway, thats the way it is on the other forum. which is why its so easy to do.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #48 10/14/08, 10:24 PM

Jo, do you keep records to know how much that gallon of milk is costing you, or how much that milker costs so you know how to price your kids? If you don't than each month your stock is either costing you money or you are not giving them the credit that they are do.

With the economy either of these two are unacceptable. If your costs support lower prices than yes sell for lower prices, but know going in and accept the loss. To do all this work and not even break even, how depressing.

I don't know how you would even set your prices without knowing. How do you know how much someone else would pay, or should pay?

I am not a super model breeder, so no offense taken at all, I just know the value of the product I produce, what I am willing to take for it and what I just won't.

Profit is not a dirty word and it's distressing to me how many women are answering these posts and you can see they aren't getting it. What is wrong in making some money with what you do on the farm, even if it is JUST for your children. What a wonderful work ethic you could teach your children that "my mom" etc... Vicki

goatkid · #49 10/15/08, 01:20 AM

I've been reading the posts on this thread with interest. I get what alot of you are saying. I, personally,not only wouldn't pay $450 for the goat pictured, I wouldn't buy her at all. This is because my goal is to raise Nubians who conform to standard and she wouldn't improve my herd. She may well be worth that much to someone wanting her for a family milker. I have sold nicer goats for less.
I see no problem with making a profit on goats. I would LOVE to be able to get $500 for a family milker. Where I live, the people simply won't pay that much for a goat. We also can't openly sell goat meat unless it's killed at a packing plant that has a USDA inspector present. That place has reputation of being quite disgusting (rodent problems) and charges quite alot to kill and butcher an animal for you. We also don't have too many people around here who will eat goat meat. Our local health food store bought a few of our wethers a couple years ago and had problems getting the meat sold, so are no longer buying goats. I'm glad when I can find buyers willing to pay $150-$200 for my milkers and doelings. I don't let myself get attached to the bucklings, but I tend to get pretty attached to the girls and have a hard time seeing healthy CAE/CL free goats go for meat, though I have taken a few to the sale barn over the years simply to reduce the herd.
I suppose some would say I should give up on breeding them if I can't make a profit on goats living where I do. The thing is, I would love to breed a champion Nubian and am getting closer to that goal. I also have milk customers and have to freshen the does to have milk. In the mean time, the money I do get on the sale of my goats helps pay for their feed.

cathleenc · #50 10/15/08, 07:13 AM

The going rate of where you live certainly dictates the price you can get when selling an animal. Agreed.

I can get high quality, high producing doelings from well-established, reknowned goat dairies locally for $80-$100. Not pure-bred, not registered. But ones that come with dam's milking records and a long history of well-attached udders. Tested, closed herds.

These may not be the places that advertise much! But usually if you put the energy into finding what you want you can find it.

Proven show-quality goats with great conformation and milking records get maybe $250-$300.

There are a LOT of good dairy goats in Wisconsin.

susanne · #51 10/15/08, 07:27 AM

now, if you take that $100 doe kid, how much will it cost you to raise until she freshens for the first time?

waygr00vy · #52 10/15/08, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

now, if you take that $100 doe kid, how much will it cost you to raise until she freshens for the first time?

I totally agree and this drives me crazy when selling goats, chickens, whatever! So people want to let someone else do all the work and put all the feed into getting a goat to her first freshening, then buy her for the same price she was as a kid? I had a had a recorded grade nubian that if bred back to a PB buck her kids could have been registered American. She was not show quality but a very good family milker and I believe her kids could have been improved alot bred to a nice buck. Her first freshening she let an entire brownie troop (8 yr olds) milk her without a single kick! I was asking $175 for her in milk, and that was bred back to my PB buck. I had one person tell me that was way to much she would be a $75 to $100 doe! I told her I would keep her before selling her for that! Then there are my ND's. I have spent a bit of money and lots of driving time trying to get good breeding stock. Then there is this ND breeder not to far away with 80 goats and sells them all cheap, so people that don't know any better go there. (there are actually several breeders in the area like this) They see price tag....well, its only $50 even though its wild, horned, not vaccinated...whatever. Why would we pay more for a nice tame, bottle raised, disbudded...etc. Drives me crazy! Then you are forced to bring down prices...

jill.costello · #53 10/15/08, 08:15 AM

Keeping records of expenditures/costs associated with all aspects of your stock is KEY.

I've been raising horses for many years, but the neccesity is the same. For the first several years, I had to PROVE to myself what each and every foal had cost me at the end of the "raisin' up" period.

Adding together all feed, shots, hoof trims, vet care, registration fees, pasture management costs, fencing costs, etc, etc, and then dividing it amoungst however many foals I had on the ground.

And then the cost of MARKETING for a fast sale so they wouldn't hang around the farm for months or years eating into my profit!

I have finally gotten to the point where I can comfortable KNOW how much I will or will NOT make on a certain sale foal..... One foal had to be hospitalized for 10 days....deduct $1800.00 from THAT profit......One broodmare had a uterine infection......deduct $900.00 profit from HER foal's sale......

My yearling with the c4/c5 fracture? A total loss.

HOWEVER, I make SURE that my foals are of a quality that even WITH these unforeseen emergency costs, the market will bear my loss and I will STILL have my hard costs covered for the year!

Let me be clear: IT COSTS ME THE SAME amount of MONEY to raise a CHEAP, POOR foal that it does to raise a CHAMPION! They all have to eat, they all need the vet. It's the end result that makes or breaks my business.

If I had this year's expenses and losses on $1500.00 foals, I would be bankrupt.

knoxgal · #54 10/15/08, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

how much do you pay for cows milk in the store? how much for crea, cheese or ice cream?

i have a friend who was complaining once how expencive a goat is and to keep her. i told her to put a jar in the kitchen and every time she used a gallon of milk, put the money it would have cost in there.
after a year it will add up a lot and now she realizes how valuable her goats are.

some people have difficulty to imagine but understand better if they do it this way.

I know milk is valuable and this is why I milk goats. I do not complain about how much they cos just wanting to make a wise decision when spending $450.00

knoxgal · #55 10/15/08, 08:18 AM

The goats blood lines are Longman and Infinity.

susanne · #56 10/15/08, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoxgal

The goats blood lines are Longman and Infinity.

i know the longman's have excellent milk records and some of their does are capable of extended lactation. what better family milker can you get?
we bought three doe kids from longman's this year ( $500 each, and need to put a lot of feed and time in them until they will be freshening

) for exactly that reason.
do you have any milk record on this doe? length of last lactation?

southerngurl · #57 10/15/08, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goatkid

I've been reading the posts on this thread with interest. I get what alot of you are saying. I, personally,not only wouldn't pay $450 for the goat pictured, I wouldn't buy her at all. This is because my goal is to raise Nubians who conform to standard and she wouldn't improve my herd. She may well be worth that much to someone wanting her for a family milker. I have sold nicer goats for less.
I see no problem with making a profit on goats. I would LOVE to be able to get $500 for a family milker. Where I live, the people simply won't pay that much for a goat. We also can't openly sell goat meat unless it's killed at a packing plant that has a USDA inspector present. That place has reputation of being quite disgusting (rodent problems) and charges quite alot to kill and butcher an animal for you. We also don't have too many people around here who will eat goat meat. Our local health food store bought a few of our wethers a couple years ago and had problems getting the meat sold, so are no longer buying goats. I'm glad when I can find buyers willing to pay $150-$200 for my milkers and doelings. I don't let myself get attached to the bucklings, but I tend to get pretty attached to the girls and have a hard time seeing healthy CAE/CL free goats go for meat, though I have taken a few to the sale barn over the years simply to reduce the herd.
I suppose some would say I should give up on breeding them if I can't make a profit on goats living where I do. The thing is, I would love to breed a champion Nubian and am getting closer to that goal. I also have milk customers and have to freshen the does to have milk. In the mean time, the money I do get on the sale of my goats helps pay for their feed.

You might also look into using any meat animals for raw meat packs for those who feed their dogs raw meat diets. You could freeze these up and sell at the health food store and not have to worry about usda regulations.

susanne · #58 10/15/08, 09:01 AM

good tip ashley.

TennesseeMama23 · #59 10/15/08, 10:20 AM

This thread is interesting.

I am in this for the milk and enjoyment of my herd. I don't plan on making money.

Something that stood out at me--someone said the milk from a good milker is worth $1000 over a year's time.

Lets just talk about 1 goat. If I buy a milking goat for 250 (which is the most I have ever given for one). I'll have saved/made $750 in a year's time (the next year the $1000). If I sell my 2 kids for $100 apiece that will pay for my grain for the year. We don't buy hay-we use our own, we have enough land for them to do fine while not milking. We buy a bag of wheat seed to plant for feeding in the worst of winter.

OUR cost is very little--and the milk alone is "making" us $750/or $1000 a year if you look at it that way.

In actuality we have more goats and I sell enough milk in the spring to pay for at least half my feed costs (I don't keep up with it). And have more kids. I do all this with goats that are normal everyday goats.

I have no desire to be in the goat business, but I am glad there are those who do so there is good quality stock to be had for us that care nothing about it.

My goats aren't worth near as much as Vicki's or those of you who pour your lives into it and know goats better and breed them better.

susanne · #60 10/15/08, 10:25 AM

thank you