Does this doe have good confirmation?

susanne · #21 10/14/08, 12:00 PM

before i sell a $150 to $200 milker, she would be butchered/ sold for meat.
a good milker, even not show quality, is worth more then that.
cows milk in the store is $4 per gallon.
if this doe is a good milker, she will give at least 2000lb or 250 gallon ($1000 you would spent to get store bought yucky milk) per year plus some kids for meat (if bucks) or at least $150 per doe kid sale. here she cost me about $350 to $400 in keeping her on my place. hay and grain is expensive in my area.
now, somebody tells me why a good milker should go for meat price?????????

Kazahleenah · #22 10/14/08, 12:05 PM

Susanne... it's a catch 22. Up here, feed is still very reasonable. ( I got 100# square bales of nice, second cutting alfalpha hay for $2.00/bale this summer) But, also, up here, it's hard to find anyone who will spend a lot on a goat. For many people, it ends up to a choice: Sell cheaper than they would like.... or keep and feed the extra goats. Believe it or not, a lot of people don't/won't butcher their goats. Whether or not we agree with this practice, it's basically what seems to be happening.

Kaza

susanne · #23 10/14/08, 12:16 PM

kaza i would love to get alfa hay for that

i just payed $7.50 for a little square bale.
as to marketing goats, i do understand to keep the herd size manageable. in selling cheap, they are shooting them self in the foot. part of keeping livestock, is to recognize it as such and not make pets out of them. here, i can sell meat for $6.50 the pound. before i sell a doe for $200, because she does not meet my standard, she is butchered and sold for meat. some of the does are very close to my heart but if the time comes, they will be honored in a very special way and get eaten only by our familly. this is part of life.

somebody wants cheap goats, i will send to the sales barn. will the goat be guarantied disease free? certainly not.

billooo2 · #24 10/14/08, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

Someone post a show winner who is for sale for $450. Not a kid with no udder, but a doe with an E udder that will win for the person right now...they don't exsist. They are the loosing does of the herd and IF they are rehomed into areas of the country with no competition in the show ring, yes they can be very competetive, but a show winner, a doe with a current E appraisal score...no.

This is why the dairy goat industry for some is what it is. I know price fixing is against the law, but dang! You sell milk for nothing, you sell goats for less than they cost to raise! How is that good economics for your farm? I would rather eat a doe than sell her for $100 in milk. Sorry the last $100 doe left back in the early 90's here.

The difference...folks who sell for these prices are then on the Talk sites at yahoo selling bucklings and doelings born this last spring for little to nothing. Yet they are still breeding all their goats every year. If you can't sell what you produce why are you producing it? You rarely see me on any list hawking my stock, now something for sale in my area, sure, something for sale in my friends herds, sure, something that comes back as doe kid back and I decide not to keep her, sure...because they aren't on my sales list to have deposits on them before the doe was bred or kids.

Nobody on this forum can grow out a doe like the doe above for only $150, yet you will sell her for that? That head, rump and conformation was there at 1 day old, sell her for $150 then.

Perhaps someone can explain their economics on their farm for all of us that explains how you can be selling milkers for this amount? I have tried to explain mine.

Still would love to talk to the spouse of these hobby farms who are footing the bill for all of this. Vicki

Vicki,

You make some very good points about the economics. But there is still the "marketplace." Back in the '80's I lived n New England and nice family milkers went for $150-200. I am in Ohio now, and nice family milkers can be had for $150-200. When I think of what inflation has done, these are "bargain basement" prices!!! Is it possible to make a profit at those prices?????....I don't know how.

Is it possible to obtain show quality animals in that price range??? I have done it. The opportunities do not appear every day. If you think that "tomorrow" I will go out and spend that amount and get a show quality animal, then you will probably not find any.

I also had the opportunities to spend a lot more money, which I passed up.

bstuart29 · #25 10/14/08, 03:09 PM

Wow $450

I could never pay that amount for a goat but if you as a seller can get it more power to you. One's location probaly pays a big part on the cost of a quality goat.

cathleenc · #26 10/14/08, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

now, somebody tells me why a good milker should go for meat price?????????

well, because sometimes that's what people can afford to pay for a decent milker. I personally think selling a non registered, non show animal with decent milk production in good health is a reasonable thing to do for $100-150. Families should be able to afford animals for their family farm. A goat will never be worth even $300 to my family.

bstuart29 · #27 10/14/08, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathleenc

well, because sometimes that's what people can afford to pay for a decent milker. I personally think selling a non registered, non show animal with decent milk production in good health is a reasonable thing to do for $100-150. Families should be able to afford animals for their family farm. A goat will never be worth even $300 to my family.

I was thinking along those same lines

That being said if someone will pay more than good for the seller.

susanne · #28 10/14/08, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathleenc

well, because sometimes that's what people can afford to pay for a decent milker. I personally think selling a non registered, non show animal with decent milk production in good health is a reasonable thing to do for $100-150. Families should be able to afford animals for their family farm. A goat will never be worth even $300 to my family.

then you will not be able to feed and take proper care for the milker too.

ozark_jewels · #29 10/14/08, 04:17 PM

The seller making money aside, I can go to several places in my area and buy a healthy CAE/CL free doe from a decent herd, with a very passable body, good breed character, good udder, good milk for the asking price of $450 or less. I'm not setting the price, the seller is. Thems just the facts. So if I had $450 to spend on a doe, I would pass on the one pictured above. Not saying that she is overpriced, just saying I could easily find a nicer doe to spend my $450 on *in my area*. That is what I would tell a friend if they had asked about above doe.

farmmaid · #30 10/14/08, 05:00 PM

.........$450...keep looking !!!!!!!

betsy h. · #31 10/14/08, 05:14 PM

Look at the doe for what she is- a family milker.

Some folks with really fantastic bloodlines would charge more for this doe becasue if she were bred to a buck that really clicked with her, she would throw great kids, possibly of show quality.

However, most folks buying their first doe will not know how bloodlines run, so they will breed to the best buck they can fine or the only one they can find.

Her udder is not a 'bad' udder per se, but it is an udder that will not hold up over several freshenings with heavy milk in it. She has a solid fore, and teats that look easy to milk, and 'plumb' as well, but she has a rear attachment that is held on just at the top of the rear udder- it appears that she also has a very low rear udder height as well.

So, if this doe had rear udder attachment all down the sides of her legs, I would say that she would be worth more than the $100-$150 she is worth now. More like $250 if the attachment were there, lack of breed character or not.

I sell my family milkers for $250 and they have attachment fore and rear to carry a milky udder. Since this doe is working on being a more mature doe, there is no growing room to make her back and rump straighter. Her legs could very well be the result of a nutritional lack of Se, Cu, and zinc up here in these mountains. Given proper nutrition, her kids would improve in these areas greatly when she was bred to a GOOD buck, not just who is next door.

Temperment would be the key to buying this doe if you can get the folks to be realistic about her price. No more than $200 please.

Honestly, my favorite OLD doe- whom I bred and is my best milker- has many of the same flaws this one does. I would not sell her for less than $1,000 because she is who she is. AND bred to the right buck, has given me a beautiful (and greatly improved) kid this year.

knoxgal · #32 10/14/08, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betsy h.

In the Knoxville, TN area, this doe is worth maybe $100. A $450 doe in the Knoixville area is pretty much top show quality. In fact, $450 is pretty much show quality anywhere in the south east!

This doe has unacceptable breed character for a Nubian.

There is a Nubian breeder in Dandridge, off of Exit 417, I-40, who has some VERY well bred purebred nubian does (Willow Run, Foxwood, Kismet, Sunrise Valley, etc.) for sale for LOTS less than this- LA scores, CAE tested, not been off her place for several years, etc. There are others in the area who also have acceptable does for sale right now.

Several of us here in the area have offered to help you and get you connected with the Smoky Mtn. Dairy Goat Assn., but have received no replies- they meet on the 2nd Sat. of every month at a member's home or church, and there's lots of help there with folks who run CAE neg. herds and have goats much better, and less costly, than the one you've shown here.

If you would contact us, we can get you connected ASAP. BTW> the next goat Seminar at UT in Knoxville is Feb. 21st 2009- these seminars are wonderful!

I have tried since to get on the SMDGA website and it was down in the past, yesterday was my first success and I used it and contacted some breeders, thanks for the suggestion.

The goat is CAE neg, never CL tested and CL on the farm x 2. Not getting goat.

Mrs. Jo · #33 10/14/08, 06:13 PM

Sellers can set their prices to whatever they want-but if they are selling a pig in a poke- forget it. That animal is a pig in poke. There are lots better nubians around here and they are still in the 250 -350 range.

Beginners deserve honest opinions about goats rather than a lectures on how sellers can set their own price for their animals. The market is very flexible when it comes to prices of goats- no one nowadays has 450 to waste paying for a goat with poor confirmation and breed character. For 450 I would expect much better in a milking goat. Many breeders are downsizing right now. With a bit of traveling and calling around, the op could find a really nice nubian for an affordable price. Better animals = better prices when it comes to selling offspring.

I think, many long time breeders forget that there are many goats who don't have the "in" bloodlines, and the reputations behind the breeders that sell their animals.

We small (or new) people still need to sell the animals that we breed every year. Nothing would be sold on our farm if we ended up pricing the animals at grand champion prices. Why? Because they are not grand champions! They are just ordinary goats. 250-350$ is a reasonable price for an ordinary goat, healthy and who will milk for you as a family milker. When prices of 450 are being mentioned I expect show wins, superb bloodlines and/or participation in LA.

It would be nice to sell our adult does for enough to cover their feed prices for the year and still make a profit and all, but there are not enough buyers who will take them off my hands for that sum. It's cheaper for us to sell them at a lower reasonable price, rather than keeping them, feeding them or butchering them.

Mrs. Jo · #34 10/14/08, 06:31 PM

[QUOTE

I completely agree and, this is what I LOVE about this site - these folks helped you to avoid getting rippsed off.

I was going to say that I might pay $50 to $100 for that doe, tops and that is if she is proven to be CL/CAE free. Not a nice doe at all. Sorry.[/QUOTE]

So you agree cjb???

Would you please not put you own words in MY message?

If there was a problem with the way I said the original message why did you not PM me?

Get your words out of my message. They imply things I never said about that doe.

Believe me, I am very shocked to find you altering other peoples words.

knoxgal · #35 10/14/08, 06:38 PM

Sounds right Jo. I am just trying to make a good investment, trying to do my research and homework but it is not easy.

Chuck · #36 10/14/08, 06:46 PM

Jo,

It was probably an honest mistake. CJB sees a third button to the left of the two you see at right of each post. He probably meant to quote your message and accidentally hit the "edit" button instead. A PM from you to him could clear that up with little fanfare and fuss. I've made that mistake myself more than once.

Mrs. Jo · #37 10/14/08, 06:54 PM

I am waiting to hear from him. Hopefully, it is just a mistake.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #38 10/14/08, 07:33 PM

So how much do you have in the goat who you are selling for those prices when she is in milk? Even at $250 are you even making your money back for grain and hay? Do you never pay yourself labor? If you are new and just started then you are selling them for less than your purchase price plus feed?

Even a doe who is JUST for family milk (and what a sad commentary on the homestead) she is worth more than $250.

And then in the next thread you will talk about how there is no money in goats. There would be no money in anything if you sold it for less than it costs. This is government type thinking about the economy

Vicki

ozark_jewels · #39 10/14/08, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck

Jo,

It was probably an honest mistake. CJB sees a third button to the left of the two you see at right of each post. He probably meant to quote your message and accidentally hit the "edit" button instead. A PM from you to him could clear that up with little fanfare and fuss. I've made that mistake myself more than once.

I am a moderator on a small forum and I have also made this mistake a few times. Its an embarrassing but an honest and *very easy* mistake to make. I had no idea until I became a moderator.........

knoxgal · #40 10/14/08, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topside1

Knoxgal, as you now know that goat is worth $150-$200 providing it's stand ready (meaning without behavioral problems). I didn't read everyones comments but visually I don't like the looks of the entire goat, at least not with the $450 price tag. I'd offer $150 and see what happens. If you are just looking for grade dairy goats for lovin and milkin well my six does are due to start kidding the first week in January. I may be able to part with a doe in milk with or without kids..I'm 3 miles off I-40 exit 300....TJ

do you have a website?