glad to hear he is better. :)
didn't the vet give you the dosage for the AC?
if i remember right, i gave two teaspoon per day, for a very long time. my buck did not like it at all.

The dose for preventative measures is 1 tsp. for each 150 pounds of goat. My little ND weighs 65 pounds & I give him 1/2 tsp everyday on a little alfafa pellets mixed with some molasses to make it stick. I did mix it in a pitcher of water & use a needleless syringe & gave it to him daily for about the 1st month. It took that long to get all the crystals, etc. flushed out of his system. I would agree with susanne & give yours the 2 tsp. per day for the first 2 weeks at least if he was my pet.
So glad he's doing better, It breaks my heart to read posts about UC because I just can imagine the pain they are in & if not caught in time what a terrible death & there have been a couple of those lately here on the forum too!
Thank goodness you knew the symptoms.

Rocco dribbled a little this morning. Not much. Not too interested in food either.

I would like to give him something for pain and inflammation. I thought I'd try Children's Motrin...any reasoon I shouldn't?

Because the AC is so bad tasting, I might mix the two....would that be okay?

Thanks

Valsey: I am so glad to hear this was not a worse case scenario, affirmative action and knowing when you need help is a blessing. I know to a lot of people money is a big deal, but when it comes to our critters as long as they can be comfortable and healthy I'll pay any bill. You made the right decision here and both you and your boy are better for it. Glad to hear all is well. Following up with AC and adding vinegar to the water as a preventative from now on should help prevent future recurrences. Good luck and please keep up posted!

Valsey: I wouldn't be doing motrin, asprin based drugs cannot be counted on and are not good for the rumen. I would ice if at possible, and keep the area clean. I would also suggest getting him on some electrolytes to keep him drinking and hydrated and help alleviate stress, some probios is always good as well especially post oil/charcoal. A round B12 complex would kick in his appetite, keep him hydrated, and help boost his immune system as well. Can't go wrong with any of those.

I'm very worried about more stones in the bladder. The AC is corrosic and may be painful, I don't know what else I can do to dissolve stones already in the bladder. Thought I heard mention of Methionine being used for this on this forum. Anyone use that? If so, how much and where do you get it? Is it as bad tasting? The AC must be painful to pass through a freshly cut penic and I can hardly get tit down him - it's a battle

How much vinegar should be in his water and is that okay for the other goats and the donkey?

He's not interested in food or water. I may try a baby bottle with some pedialite in it. How else can I get some fluids in him?

Thank you

corrosive (sorry)

Will the vet give you some banamine 1cc per 100 pounds for pain while he heals? The amount of aspirin you have to give to even make a dent in pain 13 adult people aspirins per 100 pounds every 4 hours.

I would not scrimp on the AC (which is nothing more than a mineralized salt, it does not make the urine 'salty' as in pain in the urethra like pouring salt on a wound, and I would be using something for pain, goats don't do well with pain. It's suprising your vet didn't recommend something. Vicki

Valsey: If it makes you feel any better I did not treat the pain when I had gotten my goat Juan after being attacked by dogs. Was he hurting yes, but keeping him alive was the primary objective. Pain relievers do little for goats. It is true that goats do not do well with pain, but the painrelievers we often associated with, and drugs like Ace, and Bute do not settle well with a ruminant's digestive tract. The absorption process is very different to begin with, and that is why it takes as Vicky mentioned 13 aspirin to even start to dent the pain, by the time is is dissolved it is about out of their system. When you are already dealing with urinary problems overloading them on NSAID's is not helping. Like Vicky suggested check with your vet about Banamine via injection. That is the best treatment for pain. It is an IM shot, and will help relax the muscle and give him some relief.
DO NOT skip, or cheat on the AC. Like Vicky said it does not make the urine corrosive in in terms are being painful to the urethra and incision. What it does is build up the Ph so that it can dissolve the crystals and protein in the urine. It's not going to turn his urine into battery acid, so you can relax there :-)

As for the vinegar, it depends on what waterer you use. I have a 100 gallon trough and put about 1/2 of a bottle in there. I'd start with a tablespoon or less a gallon. And yes it is totally safe for anyone to drink, even you and I. It may be a bit bitter to them at first, but the apple cider kind is the best to use, still has a bit of sweet to mask that tart. It also cuts down on algae as an extra bonus! Great to scrub buckets out with too. If they don't seem to like it in the water try top dressing his food with that in some applesauce or yogurt since he's not up to eating or drinking.

Pedialyte is also a good idea, get him to drink regardless of what it takes. You may want to see if the vet will give you a bag of Lactated Ringers to give SubQ. Running a few CC's of that will help get him hydrated and apt to eat again.

Valsey, this episode has been a wake up call for me. I'm so sorry you had to go through all this but I wanted to let you know that your problem has pushed me into looking at my methods of caring for my little wether Frankie. I have been giving him preventative ac...but now realize not enough and not consistent enough. Pretty sloppy on my part and I'm going to change that starting NOW! Thank you :) and Frankie thanks you too ;)

I'm so glad to hear he is doing better, I was hurting just thinking of how that would feel!

I'm extremely surprised the vet didn't send you home with banamine. If it were me I'd ask for some.

The vet happens to live near me and she said she would drop off Banamine this morning. I'll give it to him asap. I'm hoping that with some relief he'll be more apt to eat. He did munch a little on some browse I brought him yesterday, but I haven't seen him drink - doesn't mean he hasn't tho.

I think I'll wait on the vinegar water - don't want to discourage drinking right now.

Thank you all...I'll keep you posted

This was recomended to me on another very good forum:
"Get a copy of the book Diet for Wethers by Carolyn Eddy. I found it here: http://www.northwestpackgoats.com/books.htm. It has helped me understand more about balancing a wether's diet."

Some people say that their goats prefer water with vinegar added. You could always give him 2 buckets of water so he could choose with or without vinegar.

Some electrolytes in a bottle might help get some fluids into him. Maybe smear some molasses or probios on the nipple. Have tried the pinch test to see if he's hydrated?

My goats, both bucks & doe's love apple cider vinegar in there water. Make the water a little warm if it's not 90 degree's still in georgia. It will not hurt the donkey or other critters either.
Vicki is right, the AC is not hurting him, he just doesn't like the taste! After awile my buck didn't even fight me on it. This will SAVE HIS LIFE! If he is just dribbling, he still has stones & crystals & it will probly take him a few weeks to get it all out of his system.
The banamine will also help his system relax & pass the stones more easily too.
It's very important he have the AC everyday. I would not use Methionine, only the AC & banamine for the pain. If you keep doing it he will start feeling better soon, but it's going to take a few days plus he also has stiches where he had his wee wee cut so that hurts too!

From another very good forum: "Vinegar does nothing really, but the AC does pretty good. Vinegar is acetic acid and goats make ALOT of this naturally in their rumen.
hmmmm....

So - I will dose 2 tbls AC daily - sound good? For how long? I think 2 weeks was recommended? And then go to the maintenance dose? Can I mix with sugar or something sweet? I'm taking about fighting tooth and nail!

Vet said he's dribbling because he's in pain and his bladder is inflamed, therefore not pushing the urine out.

I got banamine in him this morning and have one more dose for tomorrow. Got a baby bottle - will try that as suggested with some molasses in the end. I really want to get fluids in him. He ate a little in the pasture this morning...will check on him soon to see if he will eat some browse now that the pain may be less.

See a need for antibiotics?

Thank you

I just looked at Vicki's post and it IS tablespoons.

I also see Vicki used the word tablespoon, & I might do 2 tablespoonfuls a day for a few days but then I would switch to 2 teaspoonfuls a day.
Fias Co. website says 1 teaspoon for each 150 pounds of goat but that is as a preventative. This is to get him back to normal & then switch to preventative measures.
The apple cider vinegar I know won't make him better I just thought if he liked it it would help flush things through his system the more he drank.
Definately keep giving him the AC though. Your doing a good job, Rocco is a very lucky boy!!

Rocco is not doing well. Not eating or drinking much. No cud chewing. Very depressed and lethargic. Given the choice I think is at hand, right now my goal is to keep him alive rather than worry about the stones. I gave him his last dose of Banamine and some probios...don't plan to give him anything that upsets his stomach today...I think his rumen is stopped.

Any help? Ideas?

Thank you

Can you get some cud from another goat? Also, Vit B would help his appetite. Poor guy has been through a lot. :(

He needs to be rehydrated if your vet won't come over and give him lactated ringers IV for you, than just go get the setup and start giving him it subq. Just attach the butterfly kit to the bag, make sure the bag is warm remember his body temp is 102. And have you taken his temp recently? Put the butterfly needle under the skin high on his wither/shoulder....build a huge bubble bigger than you hand. Let it absorb and put another bubble on the other side before that one has dissapeared. The first thing they would do if you have surgery would be to put you on an IV, yet we let our goats dehydrate.

How much banamine are you giving? It is not only getting rid of his pain it is also stopping in the inflammation in his urethrea. Is he still peeing? If he is not than he is blocked up again, call the vet.

This is the slippery slope that I told you about when you do call a vet...they only fix the immediate problem with no concern for the animal itself. Goats do terrible with pain, yet they gave you no pain relief you have to now keep up his banamine until he is better or dies. Take his temp, is it high Infection...or low, no rumen working his organs are failing and he is dieing...no hydration.

You aren't doing anything that upsets his stomach, stop thinking that way. You have to keep up the AC because when you hydrate him he will pee if it isn't blocked again. You have to use the banamine for pain or he won't pee, and won't heal. Temp? than move to an antibiotic also, make sure the antibiotic you choose you have a good dosage on not a vet dosage. Ask or go to goatkeeping 101 at dairygoatinfo.com we have most dosages up. Vicki

yes what vicki said. the banamine is not only for the pain but also to take down the swelling from inflammation that came with the blockage. he should have ben on iv or sc fluids since day 1 of surgery, drinking or not. my buck was on iv fluids for five or six days. he did not get a chance to only dribble but pee in a good stream. this is the only way to flush the urinary system out completely.
chances are very high that he is starting to block again.
very sorry :(

I got two pinches from another goat into him. Will that help? I can try again.

Please tell me...if he begins eating will that start his rumen up again on it's own?

Valsey, I have read that swiping cud from another goat for a sick goat can be very helpful. Vicki and Susanne have waaaaayyyy more experience than I do. Do you have access to some lactaded ringers? Even a small animal vet could help you out with that. It sounds harder than it is...You could also use a huge syringe 60cc and draw the fluid out of the bag and dispense it sub Q that way.

He just ate brush for about 15 minutes. Will his rumen kick in on it's own if he's eating?

I pinched his skin, and it doesn't seem like he's dehydrated, but I'll try to get some lactated ringers.

I will take his temp...I have not yet. Concentrating on getting him to eat.

He's about 175 lbs and he's been getting 2cc of the banamine daily. How long should that be continued?

He's not peeing like he used to...no stream. He pushes a little and it drips out like a leaky faucet.

Get more banamine. It sounds like he is still plugged if it's only a dribble. I wonder if some water with molasses in it (just a little) would get him to drink. I'm not sure if it's automatic for the rumen to kick in if they eat..but I would say his eating is a very good sign.

Valsey, I am so sorry to hear he's not doing well right now. I sure hope he bounces back & quickly. I really don't know what advice to give now since my buck kept going & eating & drinking everyday. Hopefully Someone else will have some idea of what to try. Is he up or walking around at all? Eating any hay? You don't hear or see any movement of his stomach? Have you seen him eat anything today? The AC I know won't make his rumen stop working. I know it's so hard to watch your pet & not know what to do. Let us know how he does?

Sorry Valsy, I read the last post on page 2 & didn't realize Vicki, Susanne, etc. had already answered you.
Same as Vicki & susanne, keep giving him the AC & Banamine. That's great he wants to eat some but see if he'll drink some warm vinegar water & help himget some fluids in too just in case Vicki's right & he's dehydrated.
Also you can massage his stomach around his penis/shaft area & see if you can't help him work out any stones that may be lodged there also.

He acts like he wants to eat and then just doesn't - most of the time. He has eaten some green leaves today and a little bit of water. No hay. I'm going to see if he'll eat some peanuts. He's up and about, but would prefer to just stand or lay down and sleep.

I have a call in to the vet and will see about more banamine and ringers.

This is so frustrating

Can AC be injected?

The vet said that he's dribbling because he's sore and inflammed. Could that be correct? I think some ringers might get him peeing...

I think the more hydrated the better. Get him flushed out. My goats like raisins... I don't think AC can be injected. I think it has to go through his digestive system but I'm REALLY only guessing. You are doing so good with Rocco. He is lucky to have such a good mama.

I would expect it to since you gave him some cud. Some baking soda might help in case his rumen pH has dropped.

Good luck!

I was told "Do not give baking soda! It neutralizes acid (ammonium chloride is an acid)."

Confused, confused, confused! WIsh the vet would call back

Thanks all

I hope you're right about that...thanks

Now I'm confused too. :)

Hope you little guy is doing better!
 

I too went through this with a ram lamb that I had just bought. I'm sorry to say that it sounds just like what he had, and it was UC. A friend of ours who is a vet for the state had me bring him to him and he snipped off the uretheal process it's called. Until I could get my regular vet to order some AC, he told me to start giving him 30cc of Apple Cider Vinagar. It does the same thing as the AC. Also was told to sprinkle regular table salt (not alot) over his feed to make him drink more water. After doing all of this I had to have him put down on Friday. He had more stones up behind where the penis makes a sharp turn. Only way to get them out was expensive surgery, Xrays, etc. Around $1300. He had started lying around alot, stopped eating, drinking and was pushing hard like he was constipated. He also started kicking at his stomach when he was lying down. As soon as this started happening I regretfully had to make a decision. He was a pet and nothing else. Would have chosen the surgery but could not get a vet to do it till this coming week and my guy was in such pain. I would still get to a vet though. Watch for eating, drinking and urination. If it is only dribbling when coming out I would think that it is UC. Good Luck hopes this helps

How is Rocco doing this morning?

The vet is out of town. His partner, fresh out of school and admittedly not a goat doctor came out last night. While she was feeling around his organs he started to pee!!!!!!!!! And a LOT!.

I asked her to give him a shot of B and some Banamine (she gave 4 cc of B complex - is that a goat dose?) SHe left 2 more doses of Banamine.

After she left I gave him half a bag of ringers (4 1/2 ml?) And managed to get a tiny bit more cud into him from another goat...and received my first goat bite in the process.

This morning he's up and about as usual and he had a very small cud !!!

Hoping we've turned a corner.

sounds like you got it under control. you did a really good job with him. keep up the good work ;)