Deworming Questions

CookingPam777 · #21 07/07/08, 09:06 PM

She weighs 110.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #22 07/07/08, 09:13 PM

You didn't worm before...so start over. Of the swine wormer I would give her 10cc. 3cc per 30 pounds. Most is absorbed into the mucous membranes of the mouth, so it isn't too much to give orally.

Have you checked all of your goats eyelids? We have the Famacha chart of at goatkeeping 101 at dairygoatinfo.com check and see what color you are looking at. It's highly unlikely you have only one doe who is wormy. Since you don't fecal it would be better to just worm everyone, get them out of their barn and pasture for 12 hours after worming so they don't drop all these egss and larve right back into their area. Vicki

CookingPam777 · #23 07/07/08, 09:25 PM

Okay I see. I will just take the swine dewormer back and check with a friend of mine who lives in MD and see what she uses buy that do a fecal and see if it doesn't work. This goat friend of mine is knowlegdeable about goats but like me has a lot to learn. I know not to use pellets or safeguard. I will put what she recommends on here to see what you all think first. I hate giving shots and drenches I don't like. I will also call my vet and see what they recommend and if they can either get it for me or know someone who carries it TSC stinks

. My vet is a little over an hour away. Oh well.

susanne · #24 07/07/08, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookingPam777

I hate giving shots and drenches I don't like.

just give it to your goats

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #25 07/07/08, 09:31 PM

Pam why not just order Cydectin cattle pouron from jefferspet.com? That way you can have it for your next 3 or 4 years of worming? In the meantime start with saanendoah.com and learn to fecal, ask at my forum also dairygoatinfo.com You have to give wormers orally, even the herbal ones

Now shots, that just plain takes practice, but mostly it takes having someone show you how. Even with worming, there is a trick to worming that you have to see, then you wouldn't mind giving things orally so much. Vicki

susanne · #26 07/07/08, 09:33 PM

btw, TSC also carries the normal 1% ivermectin. they have the injectable (1cc per 50lb ) and the pour on. (1cc per 22lb) i think i also saw the cydectin there. all of the wormer given orally.
all the wormers are very pricey, another reason to do fecal

, but should last a long time.

CookingPam777 · #27 07/07/08, 09:41 PM

I have a question the dewormers I was looking at said do not give orally and were the shot ones. Then I looked at the rest they all say that. So is there one that will say it can be taken orally? Or does my TSC not carry it and they were trying to sell me something? The TSC people weren't very smart about what i could even use and had to use a computer.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #28 07/07/08, 09:46 PM

Pam if you did a little seraching...all major univeristies have sites on the internet...Texas A&M, Langston univerisity, they all recommend giving all wormers oral. Pourons or injectables are given orally. Goats have very fast metabolisims, it slows down the time it works by giving it orally.

The kid working at TSC don't have goats, your feed dealer doesn't have goats why are you asking them? Would you ask the kid stocking baby formula at Wallmart questions about your baby? Same thing

Vicki

CookingPam777 · #29 07/07/08, 10:11 PM

Hehehe that was a funny yet very great way to put that! True she probably never owned a goat. About giving it orally I was just afraid because it said not to. Okay so I have to buy the exspensive dewormer. Mine was $45 so I need to expect $60 and up and check expiration dates. Can you believe they sold me dewormer dated 7/08? I just bought it and I don't think I could ever have used that much. They said they would give me a full refund even though I had used some. I still wish the TSC employees were more educated on what they are selling. Trying to convince them out of not using their products was almost impossible. I had to eventually say I want this kind only but what one. Then they didn't know which one. I felt like banging my head in a wall. I guess that's a part of newbie frustration hehehe.

mistletoad · #30 07/08/08, 08:48 AM

The class costs $30 but that includes the FAMACHA chart, supplies for doing fecal analysis "slides, cover slips, flotation solution etc", a booklet of reference materials and a light lunch. It says it combines hands on learning with lectures and discussions. It does say registration and prepayment is necessary, but doesn't say where to send the payment. Phone number for more info is (301) 753-8195.

hoofinitnorth · #31 07/08/08, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langston University

Dewormers (Anthelmintics)...

Administration

Oral administration is preferred and with drenches, it is very important to make sure the product is delivered over the base of the tongue. By doing so, the dose is delivered to the rumen where it will be mixed with the ingesta and then distributed evenly throughout the gastrointestinal tract. If the dose is delivered into the front part of the mouth, some may be spit out (wasted = reduced dose) and when swallowed the reflex may stimulate closure of the esophageal groove which allows what is swallowed to bypass the rumen. When the rumen is bypassed, the dose goes directly into the omasum (third stomach) and moves quickly through the gastrointestinal tract, thus not allowing sufficient time for the anthelmintic to achieve full effectiveness.

The other form of oral administration is in feed products which does not ensure that all animals will receive an effective dose because individual animals utilize these products differently. Some animals eat more/less than others due to their appetite, their place in the "pecking order" or they just may not like the formulation (specifically supplement blocks and mineral mixes).

If one elects to use injectable products (not recommended), injections are subcutaneous (under the skin) and best administered in an area of exposed skin (usually under the front legs) so that one can see the dose being delivered. It is best to not "tent" the skin, just lay the needle on the skin and insert quickly. If the skin is tented, the needle may come out the other side and the injected material will be administered on the skin surface (again wasted). If the injection is given in an area covered by hair, it can be difficult to ensure that the needle actually penetrates the skin and the dose is delivered appropriately. Sometimes the injected material will run back out of the needle hole (again wasted), so make sure to press a finger over the injection site for a few seconds to prevent leakage.

If one elects to use a pour-on product (not recommended), the material has to be delivered on to the skin. Parting of the hair (if long) may be necessary to achieve this. There are mixed reports as to whether pour-ons (approved for use in cattle only) work on goats. For the most part, pour-ons do not seem to be that effective in goats.

http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/training/parasites.html

They say they do not recommend using pour-on products to de-worm but if you do, you have to put it on the skin. They do not say to give pour-ons orally, they just say oral administration for de-wormers is recommended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas A&M University

Moxidectin (Cydectin, Quest Gel for horses) has been a good dewormer for stomach worms. The cost is low, it still kills 90% or better; it is administered easily (as an injection, oral paste, or drenching the pour-on orally), and it is safe at high doses in pregnant females.

We have found some herds in our practice that have resistance problems to the dewormers I’ve just mentioned. In those herds we are using an old product called Levamisole. It is working very well! This product is available in a powder that can be dissolved in water and made into a drench or as boluses that can be given with a balling gun. The injectable form is also low in cost and safe to use in pregnant females.

In cases where there is a poor appetite, diarrhea, and anemia other treatments will be needed. Vitamin injections, oral appetite stimulants, tonics, and anti-diarrheals may be needed. Your veterinarian is a good source for what works and what does not.

At this point I have not said a lot about coccidiosis, but it is also an extremely important disease of young nursing babies, weanlings, and yearlings. Only occasionally does it become a problem in adult animals. This
article will not get into coccidiosis, because that will take another whole
article to cover.

There are still a few points we must cover to finish this plan. There will be many cases where the entire herd must be dewormed at one time. The reasons for this are too numerous to mention, so let's just recommend what to do when this is necessary.

If at all possible, fast all animals prior to deworming. Research indicates that withholding food for about 12 hours prior to deworming increases the efficacy of the oral dewormers. Next, whenever calculating the dose of dewormer to use in a herd, always base that dose on the heaviest animals. Underdosing can hasten the development of parasite resistance in your herd. There is still some debate about rotating dewormers each year. The latest advice recommends not rotating yearly. Better talk to your veterinarian about rotating.

Practice strategic deworming. This is done when most of the worms are inside the animal and not on the pasture. Each area of the country will have a different month to do this based on the climate in that area. Generally, these times are:

1.After the first hard-killing frost. The worms are in a hypobiotic stage at this time, and a product labeled for L4 1arvae must be used. Fenbendazole and Levamisole are the only dewormers mentioned so far that do not work on this stage larvae.

2. Just prior to spring green-up.

3. Mid-summer just prior to hot/dry weather. After deworming, wait four to five days for all the eggs to clear out of the animals' systems and then rotate the animals to a safe pasture. Examples of safe pastures include pastures where no sheep, goats, or camelids have grazed for the previous three - six months, pastures used for hay production, new pastures where no animals have ever been, or pastures grazed only by horses or cattle.

In summary, I would encourage producers to employ a veterinarian that seems willing to help you solve parasite problems and work with you in developing a herd health plan. He also can keep you abreast of the latest advances in medicine and dewormers for your camelids. Try to be flexible in navigating through problem solving your parasite control plan.

About the author:
David W. Corley, D.V.M.
A 1982 graduate of Texas A&M University,
Dr. Corley has practiced veterinary medicine
in East Texas for 25 years. He has devoted
those years to mixed animal practice in Hen-
derson, Texas. Dr. Corley is a member of the
American Veterinary Medical Association, the
Texas Veterinary Medical Association, the
East Texas Veterinary Medical Association,
and the American Society for Theriogenolo-
gists. In 1995 Dr. Corley founded Rusk
County Animal Outreach, a non-profit organ-
ization designed for the purpose of preventing
cruelty to animals in his local area. In asso-
ciation with the local animal shelter he also
has established a spay/neuter program for all
pets that are adopted from that shelter. He
has been an active supporter of youth activi-
ties in his community by sponsoring a Boy
Scout Explorer Post at his hospital for 12
years. In his spare time be is a grandpa, cat-
tle rancher and avid outdoorsman.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

First, Vicki, thanks for mentioning that this info. was out there. I simply had not thought to search for it and I now found some interesting thoughts from Texas A&M about de-worming in general. I will have to ponder it some more. However, at my personal level of experience & comfort, I am not willing to chance giving an EXTERNAL medication orally. I've also been a bit afraid of Quest due to the issues with dogs getting into it and falling ill/dying. I have just avoided it since Ivermectin was very effective for the horses here. I have not had a reason to de-worm the goats beyond one course of de-lousing that was more of a precaution than anything (I bought goats from a herd supposedly infested with lice and so I went ahead and used the Eprinex pour-on and poured it on. No lice here.)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #32 07/08/08, 03:52 PM

It was exactly how I felt when Cydectin first came out. I had already moved years earlier to Ivermectin injectable orally, I remember gals at club thinking I had lost my mind...it simply worked better, and I had a bloodline that had severe reactions to injected ivermectin. When cydectin came out I let all of them give this product to their goats orally...let them kill their livers, let them ruin their goats. But it works, and now it is what I use.

I can't even imagine that being that far north that worms will ever be the first thing you think about in the management of your goats. And when you do have parasites they will be the cool weather variety not the blood sucking ones we have. Vicki

hoofinitnorth · #33 07/08/08, 04:22 PM

I am grateful I have not had a need to de-worm the goats. I hope it stays that way, but around these parts we do have some nasties in the other animals (thankfully not in my horses but I de-worm them totally differently than I have learned to do with goats (the horses are done on a very regular schedule always with oral ivermectin paste except for the five-day Panacur powerpack I just did on my old man who has been waning in weight for the last couple of years as his teeth wear out)).

It does get plenty warm here and we do have grazing areas so our parasites are not rare. I think most people that have problems with them, though, have a management issue and/or ill animals that are prone to overloads. Most overcrowding or unsanitary conditions seems to be the big issue. Seen LOTS of wormy horses in my day! BLECH!

Anyway, I am still fiddling with my management for all the animals, and I suspect I will for many years to come as I am always a student. The microscope will be added very soon (I'm shopping tomorrow at the state surplus warehouse) so I hope to start doing some fecal floats to see what is there, if anything. Two of the three fecals I've had done by vets here showed nothing and the third showed giardia so we treated for that. These were for 3 different goats all from the same herd but different ages and dates of arrival and the one with giardia was fecaled in early spring while the other two were done in late fall.