Disbudding Age?

Too bad you don't live closer. I'd do it for you. Hang in there. It will be done and forgotten in no time by the goats and you.

I don't like the elastrator method, but if it needs to be done and that's your only option... go for it. I was thinking about dehorning a few of my goats this way.

I've heard the elastrator method isn't permanent, and that after the horns grow a while they need to be redone. That scares me because if the horns fall off early from this method, goats can be in danger from blood loss - they have large blood vessels in their horns. And the pain is long and drawn out - I'd much rather burn them for about 5 minutes each once very early in their lives when they forget after a few minutes them cause them at least 3 weeks of pain, not to mention having to wrestle with the bander/goat whenever a band gets old or needs replaced. Or if the horn gets knocked off to early.... They may act 'ok' after a day but I can guarantee it's still painful - they're just stoic.

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Dona Barski

"Breed the best, eat the rest"

Caprice Acres

French and American Alpines. CAE, Johnes neg herd. Abscess free. LA, DHIR.

Whinny, I understand your problem, and it sucks. Have you looked on http://duhgoatman.tripod.com/STATE.htm Duh-Goat-Man web-site? There are a lot of breeder web-sites and phone numbers. I would suggest calling people who are with in 300 miles and maybe they will know of someone closer. I have done this and it works. Trust me, most anyone who owns goats will not think anyone else with goats is crazy. Just tell that that you are new and looking for other people to ask questions of. They may not be willing to do it for you, but maybe they could show you or coach you at the very least. I have met some very nice people this way.
Do not just assume there is no-one else, maybe there isn't, but maybe they are nearby and you just don't know it.

The other thing I would suggest is look for cow people, or do sheep get horns? It is really the same thing.

Good luck with it, I am not giving you grief about it, I understand and all, I just would love for you to think outside the box.

The vast majority of goats around here are Boers, and people don't bother with disbudding them. I rarely see goats that DON'T have horns... but after messing with my doe for the past few days, trying to hold her still so she can be milked, I really don't want to have goats with horns anymore!

But I did just look at the link you posted... there is a lady on there who is in my town! I'll send her an email!

Do not get cow people to help with dehorning. I've had cattle, and the vet used a thing that looks like a small post hole digger and works on the same principal. Dug the horns and part of the skull out. Had one bull calf almost bleed to death.

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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Oh, Whinny, I am SO glad! I hope she is able to help.

(I just love d.g.m. site, lol.)

Rose, the cow people I knew most used the same dis-budding iron that is used for goats. (has two tips, one side wider than the other.) Sorry your vet was a dork, I just hate that!

Okay, the lady told me where she takes them to get disbudded, at a local vet hospital. I have an appointment to drop them off Monday at 10:00 am, and pick them up later that afternoon (the buckling will be castrated at that time, too).

Why didn't I think of taking them to a vet in the first place? Can I blame that on pregnancy hormones making me forgetful?

Okay, got it done! And only $11 for each kid! (Didn't knock them out though... but he did sedate the buckling for the castration.)

So it should be what, 2 months or so before the scabs heal and the hair grows back?

Not sure what to do about my 7-month-old doeling. I've decided that I really do not like having horned goats, but I'm worried about the elastrator method not working out right (her horns are about 3" long right now).

So, what do you all recommend for scurs??? I've been following this in hopes that someone would touch on it, but the only comment was on not doing anything?!!?

My little man's definately got some big ones growing and they seem more dangerous for him and my 2 legged kids than if we'd have left the horns intact. Errrr.....

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I used the bands on a buck this year, he was like 8 months old. After we put them on he hollered for a while, a few hours. Then after that he was fine. One day a month or so later he butted a goat and his horn fell off nice and clean (It did do some bleeding, but then made a good clot)! There was a change of plans and he was butchered, so the other hadn't fallen off yet, but it seemed to work really well. Make sure and get it down under where the horn starts. Here is a site with good info:

http://www.greatgoats.com/articles/dehorning_text.html

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The 7th Day is still God's Sabbath
ICOG7.ORG
Layton Hollow ADGA Nubians
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I do it at about a week, if I can. I also borrow or rent a disbudding iron; I dont have one. So sometimes I have to wait. Sometimes I have to go earlier. Sometimes there is an advantage to waiting, as you can see for sure who is polled or not on those kids that you arent positive on.

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Abby
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Unless life also hands you sugar and water, your lemonade is going to suck.

Sure, earlier is better, but you can still disbud when they are 2-3 weeks old and get a good result. The key is to get a good burn - if they squirm and you don't get a good burn the first time, re-do it. The circle should be a nice deep copper color. I like to make sure the skin over the horn bud is knocked off and then I cauterize the area with the side of the iron. For bucks, I do a second burn slightly to the rear and side of the first one - helps to get the scent glands and it seems to help eliminate scurs.

If you do get a scur, nip it off and reburn the area the scur grew from. If they have a major regrowth, then you can try the elastrator (get the bands for sheep and goats, not for calves). Make sure you are well down into the base of the horn, below the hairline. With young stock, the horn is growing so fast, the elastrator bands can actually be carried right up the horn with the new growth - another reason to disbud with the iron, not the bands.

Now, don't flame me, but if you have waited too long and the horns are a few inches long, you can hold the goat down on the ground with a knee on the neck, quickly cut the horns off with a sharp, clean hacksaw, and immediately burn with the iron. Much more traumatic for both human and goat - and you'll be much more likely to disbud early the next year, I guarantee it!

I've used the elastrator bands on mature goats with very good results. A horn occasionally gets knocked off a little early, but sometimes scurs do, too - haven't had a goat bleed to death yet (although it could, of course happen, I suppose). I have a strict no-horns policy here - won't buy another horned goat after losing a beautiful buckling to a stock panel fence a couple years ago.

So how old is too old to redo it. Can you effectively knock scurs off and reburn at any age? Our little buckling is 3 mos old and he has 2 scurs developing. We also have 2 does that are almost a year old that each have a scur. I worry because we were at a show last month and a buck knocked a scur off and almost bleed to death. It was horrible, the blood was just shooting everywhere and no matter what everyone tried it just wouldn't stop. They finally used a disbudding iron to cauterize it. I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT!!! Now I'm worried about our goaties having the same problem.

There are two threads that I think are the most like what I do. One is #17 Moonspinner and #32 manygoatsnmore. Removing the skin is what I was taught and every animal that had that full procedure HAS NEVER HAD A SCUR and the ones that didn't - do! Also, keep a cold wet washcloth with you to put on their heads to help cool them down afterward and if they are bottle babies, have a nice warm bottle ready for them and they will be just fine-just not you. I still freak-pretty much want to vomit everytime. AND THE EARLIER THE BETTER-just make sure you see or feel a bud and shaving is an excellent idea. Good luck.

They are never too old to remove the scurs, IMHO. As long as you can nip it off (the ones that have just a little section of horn regrowth, not the whole horn), nip it and burn it immediately. For the young buckling, go ahead and do him now, before they get any larger. The bigger the scur, the harder it can be to get them removed and the regrowth stopped. The older ones...you'll have to decide if you want quick and traumatic or if you want slower, but the risk of the scur coming off early and having the potential for excessive bleeding. You can also cut the scurs back a bit at a time and burn with each cut, but I'd rather just get it over with. Dehorning and disbudding are my absolute LEAST favorite goat chore to do, especially dehorning (shudder) - like crazygoatgal, I want to hurl every time. And I am a nurse with a cast iron stomach, lol! I definitely prefer disbudding, and the earlier the better. Yes, they scream and squirm and squall, and I'm always afraid I'm going to burn myself or them (ears or eyes on the kids), but I'd much rather do that, than have to do it later after the horns have grown. Besides, they get over it very quickly, even if I'm giving them tetanus antitoxin, CDT and BoSe shots at the same time that I'm disbudding. By the time they finish a bottle, they are giving me nuzzles and kisses, and I know that there is another goat that won't hang themselves on a fence.

After reading your post, Manygoatsnmore, I still have a couple of questions ... I disbudded a set of twin pygora doelings on May 19th (they were born May 5th) and a single pygora doeling on May 23rd (she was born May 11th). I tried to make sure we did everything well, iron was hot, we didn't hurry, we counted, burned each side twice, cut off the nub inbetween the burns, etc. I actually thought I did the best job on the single doeling.

Well, now it's July 2nd, and all three of them seem to be growing horns! And the single doeling, who is the smallest actually, has the most horn growth!! I found your post because I was searching on people's opinions as to what to do about 'bad disbudding'. I have two wethers who were not disbudded well and they have continual scurs, I just don't want any of my goats born on my ranch to have this life-long problem!

My mentor is telling me not to re-burn and I've read other advice that says not to do it either. But others, as well as you, are saying to do it. What do you think about this timing? And as far as if I decide to re-burn, is the procedure exactly the same as the first time? Or do you burn the horn growth itself?

I don't know if I'll actually do this or not. One concern I have is that all three of them are now too big for our disbudding box, so the only option I have would be the stanchion. I just don't know if I could have them held still enough to do this.

I would welcome any and all advice and thoughts. Thanks,

Susan

The person who taught me to disbud wouldn't do it until the horns were actually up, through the skin. She told me the skull is more developed and you are less likely to cause brain damage. She did 2 of her own goats that day as well whose horns were so long that she had to burn the horn off before disbudding. She just put the iron on the side of the horn and went around until the horn came off. then she cauterized it with the iron, then disbudded as usual. I haven't tried it myself, but I would imaging doing scurs would work the same way.
By the way, I disbudded at 2 weeks this year, my first time doing it myself.
Don't most bucks have scurs anyway? I was at an ADGA buck show last weekend and every adult buck had scurs. It made me feel better about my buck's scurs.

Man, it is amazing how much those scurs can bleed, isn't it? I was thinking of reburning and did when it ripped and kept on bleeding. Seemed like the more I burned, the more it bled until I put Wonder Dust and pressure onit.

QUESTION: How do you get those stupid bands on the horns? I tried putting it on and couldn't get it down to the hairline.