What would you pay for this doe?

Amyquilt, thanks for the kind words. Yes, it's been quite a kidding season here.

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All this talk of the relative worth of the animals is kind of interesting but it also shows where education is needed. Breeders have a right to price their animals as they see fit.

A cheap goat is most likely one that hasn't been cared for, hasn't been tested, hasn't been raised well. OR it's one that the breeder is selling and he/she is selling the animal for less than it's worth, which is not fair to the breeder.

Put this shoe in the other foot, people. When you finally start producing good stock that you can see is going to be nice, milk nice, and breed nice then you are going to want to get a good price for them, too. Unfortunetly, you can't get good stock out of cheap animals, as most cheap animals are not good quality stock, but are somebodies culls.

Ideally, an animal should be priced on what "input" has gone into them, vaccines, wormers, feed, ect. and on what kind of future profit she will bring to the owner.

Using somebodies culls can be done I guess, but I'm not willing to put the feed and money into one.

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Do you consider her a "show quality" doe or did the breeder tell you that she is?
You mention that her teats point forward, but nothing about her attachments, fore udder, capacity, general conformation or bloodlines. More info or pics would be very helpful to us in order to help you.
If you aren't planning to breed, the above information doesn't really matter, but if you are (and plan on selling kids), that information is crucial.

I would consider a $200 ND doe pet quality in the midwest but would be hesitant to buy any animal (actually, I wouldn't even consider it) that wasn't given such basic care as hoof trimming and I would NEVER, EVER buy any animal without proof of negative testing for CAE and Johnes.

Good ND's aren't cheap and in many cases, are bringing much higher prices than some of the larger breeds and definately the grades. The average kid price is around $350 - $400 and proven, show quality does (or their offspring) can be much higher.
Good luck! I hope you find the doe that best suits your needs!
Lois

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Nigerian Dwarf goats and Spanish Mastiff livestock guards
www.fallcreekfarm.net
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Well, this doe is absolutly a cull. There's no doubt about that.
As for her care:
Her hooves were easily 1/2 inch longer than what you see in the picture to the right of this page http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...inghooves.html

I'm sure she's fed the same grains and hay that the show quality does are fed because she is in the same pen as them.


Like I said in the original post, she was impatient with me milking her, but the milk came readily and at a nice pace. She did have good attachment, I was careful to inspect her udders well and get a really good look at them. They looked like nice utters and her teats were large enough that I used two fingers and my thumb to milk her (though I am only 5'3" so I have small hands).
She wasn't unruly, and I don't mind having to use a hobble on her. I am interested in this doe still, but I'm nervous about the price. What this breeder said is that she sells all her "show quality registered does" for $200. I am not sure this doe fits in that description. She said she sells the ones with a flaw for $100.
Because this doe belonged to someone else before her there's a good chance she was registered by the previous owner. That alone does not make her a show quality doe.

An important note is that we do not intend to show her, and do not care if her kids are shown. We hope to maintain (and improve) a registered line and be able to sell the kids. My goal is really that the does we get will pay for themselves. We don't have the space to keep the kids, so I need them to sell. We are not interested in becoming big time breeders. We just want milk for our son.
With that in mind, I just want to make sure I'm getting a fair deal.

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Crunchy mama, country girl, and homestead dreamer trying to work it all out.

Udders. Sorry, pet peeve.

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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Ha ha, I totally understand. I'm not sure why the time says that, but it was after midnight. I'm sure there are more errors than that!

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Crunchy mama, country girl, and homestead dreamer trying to work it all out.

GoddessKristie, I have ND goats, but only selling kids this year none of my adult doe's. I will be coming to shipshewana, Indiana in June. The best I could do is email pictures but they are only 3 1/2 weeks right now & I have 1 more doe due any day still. I do not milk my doe's but they have very big nice udders & are very friendly, the kids will go to sleep while your holding them. Send me a PM if you want more info or pictures. I'll be running my ad in the newspapers after this next doe kids & I know what I have total.

I understand your reluctance to jump in to anything and I think that's great but ,honestly, if the doe is registered with AGS or ADGA, if she has an even moderately well attached udder, and if she's easily milked what were you expecting to pay for her? You haven't stated yet which registry she is registered with and that matters.

I consider "non-show quality" does to be those who have a disqualifying fault. An extra teat or teat spur or something like that. Any doe without a DQ fault may be show quality and has the potential to produce show quality kids for you to sell in the future. I've never heard of a breeder offering to guarantee that a doe will WIN in the show ring. I've seen the same doe placed first and last in the same ring on the same day under two different judges. It happens.

I don't let papers go with the goat when I sell a pet quality one so idk anything about how much a registered pet quality doe should run. My advice would be to keep in mind that you get what you pay for. If you expect to spend less than $200 on a registered ND doe, expect her to be on the lower end of the spectrum - as far as what she is and what she will produce for you.

As far as being jumpy on the stand....there are ALOT of dairy goat breeders (esp. ND breeders) who just don't care to milk and choose to dam raise instead. I do both so I'm not knocking anyone - but milkstand manners are learned through practice. If this doe has not been hand milked consistently you're asking a bit much of her to just take to it right away. That's not the doe's fault.

Hooves can be trimmed. Manners can be learned. If the doe is registered, clean (and I would advise you to shell out a little extra for the bloodwork), if she is easily milked without any obvious DQ faults then $200 is a steal.

Good Luck!

...offer $100 and see what comes of it...

*ducking*

I consider BIG A@@ scurs a flaw...

especially if the doe knows how to use them...


...and if she sells to you at that price (or a negotiated price)? Get a buckling from the person travelling to Shipshewanna...

I'm near Lafayette - I know we have some Nigerians around here. Try your local 4-H club...

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I don't disagree, but manners are something that some are looking for and might pay more for. It might make the difference between buying the goat or passing on her. Manners can be learned but, from what it sounds like, the OP wants a goat that she can easily milk from the get-go.

I can understand that. I'm six months pregnant. Could I teach a goat milking manners? I could. I have in the past. Right now, though, that is more than I'm willing to do.

As for the hooves, overgrown hooves say *to me* that the owner might not take the best care of his goat's health. Appearances say a lot. Needing a little trim is one thing, but having obviously unkept hooves is a red flag that this goat might not have gotten the most conscientious care. Same with funky half-horns. Just like little things like ugly wallpaper or old carpeting might delay the selling of a house (after all, you can repaint and recarpet) or lower the sale price, basic goat care neglect can delay the sale (or drop the price) on a doe.

I've not seen a ton of ND's around here, OP, but if you'd like I'll keep my eyes open. There is going to be a goat show in Bedford (not sure if you know where that's at, it's near Bloomington) on Sunday. If you're up for the drive you might find something/meet someone there who could help you.

This is exactly why I brought up the hooves and scurs. To me they said that she must not be getting the best care she could be getting. That could mean two things: the breeder takes poor care of her goats, or this goat was not worth the time it takes to care for her.
I did not see other goats in the same situation, so that leaves me to think she was a lesser goat. If that's the case I just didn't think it was fair to ask the same price she would ask for a great goat.

We're still looking. We're leaving on vacation Friday, so I wont be able to visit the show in Bedford. I wish I could.
I've been in contact with the 4H offices in 3 surrounding counties, and we're still looking.

Backfourty, I hoped to have the does by the end of May, but if we are still looking at the end of May I'll let you know.
Thanks!

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Crunchy mama, country girl, and homestead dreamer trying to work it all out.

I guess it depends on the breeder. Here, $200 isn't really a "great goat" price. Things like scurs, over-grown hooves and a lack of manners on the milkstand are what makes the doe only worth $200. A well-mannered, easily milked doe, with no scurs, clipped and ready to walk into the ring starts at $300. You have to be prepared to pay extra for the time the breeder has put into the doe. $200 is less than a fair price for the doe you're actually looking for, imo.

I don't know about the over grown hooves because without a picture, I'm not sure how badly they are overgrown. I tend to trim every month out of habit not because every goat absolutely needs it that often. As far as the scurs, once you start having your kids disbudded - whether you do it yourself or pay a vet- you will see how easily some of them will grow scurs and it's no one's fault. Nor does it mean the goat isn't cared for. Just means she has scurs that need attention. Being prepared to trim hooves, work on milkstand manners and band scurs could save you a lot of money if that's your objective but you do get what you pay for. This sounds like a $200 doe to me.

I just want to make sure it's clear that I am not trying to cheat this lady out of a fair price. I just want to make sure it is a fair price

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Crunchy mama, country girl, and homestead dreamer trying to work it all out.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were trying to cheat anybody! It sounds like you are only gathering information and that's great

I only meant you are likely to have to work on manners or scurs or something from any registered ND doe at $200 or less.

I hope you find your doe soon. :banana02:

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To old ... $50.00 would be a big price.

bumpus

Wow, $50? That's all?

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Crunchy mama, country girl, and homestead dreamer trying to work it all out.

Hobby, I'm glad you didn't think that, and I didn't get that implication. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I'm not a cheapskate.

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Crunchy mama, country girl, and homestead dreamer trying to work it all out.

50.00 is a good price

btw: milk goats are pretty big in 4-H here in Tippecanoe county, so you might find something around here...

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Radically conservatively un-biased liberal.

http://whitepinesoapworks.com/

You got lots of good info & opinions. Now you gots to balance it with your guts. I say go with your guts. You have not been sure about getting this doe from the start..not a bad thing...elsewise you might not have asked.