Need guidance on sick wether

Starsmom · #41 04/04/08, 04:02 PM

I am so glad he is doing better, but you are correct, he isn't out of the woods yet. Make sure you get a supply of AC and give it to him regularly to help get him flushed out. Once he is flushed good, start him on a maintance dose. Put a salt block out to encourage lots of drinking to get his system all flushed. NO MORE GRAIN. They learn to get along without it. Give him a cracker or cookie or something to show he is special and that is all you need to do. My boys don't even get excited when they see grain anymore...they know they aren't getting it.

BethW · #42 04/04/08, 07:22 PM

Oh, thank goodness. I've been checking this thread first every night, hoping to hear good news. Go Sammy!

I give my wethers AC daily. I also put ACV in their water. They love the ACV and it increases their water consumption. Anything to keep the pee diluted and flowing is a good thing

Sweet Goats · #43 04/05/08, 11:37 PM

That is great news.
I have been out of town and away from a computer. I took my daughter to the CSU Veterinary hospital, and we spent two days there. As we were doing different tours,in the Lab area, they had a petri dish that was full of UC crystals. WOW, no wonder it hurts so bad. I could not believe the size and amount they got out of ONE goat. I just though wow, so that is what we are talking about on this thread.
Glad to hear he is doing better. hopefully he will keep improving.

EasyDay · #44 04/06/08, 05:00 AM

Wow, SweetGoats... I don't think I'd WANT to see that. I'd cry

... certain visuals regarding critters do that to me.

I'm pretty sure Sammy's out of the woods... at least not critical anymore. He strained a few times yesterday afternoon, but not HARD, like he had been.... and best of all, each time he strained, he expelled a solid stream for what seemed like a long time.

Our vet's asst is bringing me more ac so I can begin a maintenance program.

BethW, how much acv do you put in their water so that it's still palatable?

Thanks, everyone, for your keen advice and support!!

Backfourty,MI. · #45 04/06/08, 07:14 AM

What BethW is putting in there water is apple cider vinegar. She probly top dresses alfafa pellets or what she feeds with the AC. Just use a little molasses or veg. oil to make it stick.
If he is straining even a tiny bit then he's not out of the woods yet! It will probly take him a couple weeks just to get all the crystals, etc. out of his system.
For his size I'd give him 2 tsp. daily for the 2 weeks, then switch him to 1 tsp. per day for the rest of his life.
I know some of us sound pretty bossy(me in particular) & I don't really mean to but I just went through this with my ND Buck & he is fine now but it took awhile & sometimes weren't sure if we'd have to put him down! Very stressful for me & my poor little goat!
All of us here are just really concerned because we know how much pain his problem causes & how serious it is!

EasyDay · #46 04/06/08, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.

What BethW is putting in there water is apple cider vinegar. She probly top dresses alfafa pellets or what she feeds with the AC. Just use a little molasses or veg. oil to make it stick.

Yes, I understood that to be vinegar. I was asking how much she uses because she said they like it. I'm afraid too much would keep them from drinking enough, and not enough wouldn't do any good.

If he is straining even a tiny bit then he's not out of the woods yet! It will probly take him a couple weeks just to get all the crystals, etc. out of his system.

He peed a LOT this morning, and gave a small extra push or two. Am keeping a close eye on him, and will continue to do so.

For his size I'd give him 2 tsp. daily for the 2 weeks, then switch him to 1 tsp. per day for the rest of his life.

I will do exactly that. Thanks.

I know some of us sound pretty bossy(me in particular) & I don't really mean to but I just went through this with my ND Buck & he is fine now but it took awhile & sometimes weren't sure if we'd have to put him down! Very stressful for me & my poor little goat!
All of us here are just really concerned because we know how much pain his problem causes & how serious it is!

I didn't perceive you to be bossy... just firm. Drastic measures sometimes call for firm direction, and I can take it.

In fact, when I first started this thread, the urgency ya'll projected was well-taken. If it hadn't been for that sense of urgency, I may have lost him. I understand he may not be totally out of the woods, yet, and I will stay on top of it. He's my favorite grand-goatio!!!

Backfourty,MI. · #47 04/06/08, 07:36 AM

I'm soooo glad he's doing much better. Yeah we have a wether like that, he should have been a dog! I really think he prefers us people to goats!
I too use ACV in their water during warm months or if someone isn't feeling well & for a 2 1/2 gallon bucket I use 2 cups of the vinegar, just enough to make it a golden color. They really do Love it! Mine will drink that 1st before regular water everytime.
Also, THANKS so much for understanding my feeling of urgency, I'm not a bad person.

EasyDay · #48 04/06/08, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.

I'm soooo glad he's doing much better. Yeah we have a wether like that, he should have been a dog! I really think he prefers us people to goats!
I too use ACV in their water during warm months or if someone isn't feeling well & for a 2 1/2 gallon bucket I use 2 cups of the vinegar, just enough to make it a golden color. They really do Love it! Mine will drink that 1st before regular water everytime.
Also, THANKS so much for understanding my feeling of urgency, I'm not a bad person.

Wow... see, I would have thought that would be so much acv that they wouldn't like it! Glad I asked. Weird that they like it so much!

Bad person? I asked for help and you hit the nail on the head! As I said before,

!!!

fishhead · #49 04/06/08, 07:46 AM

I would take a look at what he's eating and try to adjust the calcium phosphorus ratio in his diet too.

Minelson · #50 04/07/08, 03:46 PM

EasyDay, I am so happy to have returned from out of town to such good news...I am just a little sad that you were able to handle everything without my moral support

I guess I'm not needed anymore. oh well

This has helped me out with how I'm going to be caring and "aware" of my little guy so thank you...and keep up the good work!!!

EasyDay · #51 04/07/08, 07:36 PM

Minelson,
Oh, but it wasn't like that at all! When I needed moral support, I'd just scroll down and reread your posts! Thanks for being here... ahem... even if you weren't here.

For the record, Sammy hasn't had one bite of grain since all of this started. The does get just a few bites at lockup now, but will get none at all within the next couple of days. Things are finally greening up in their yard, so they're all browsing, they have their hay and mineral block, and wash it down with vinegar water. Everyone's doing fine. I'm a "treat" kinda person, so have been experimenting with what each might like for their "goodnight bite". Looks like Suzie will get a ritz cracker, Sally a couple of raisins, etc. (They aren't spoiled, you know, so stop thinking that!)

I'm completely out of ac until Wednesday, so may start Sammy on just a cup or less of alfalfa pellets so I can consistently give him a little ac every day.

Which brings up another question....
I've heard/read to NOT give goats alfalfa pellets, and also heard/read the opposite. I would imagine that too much might cause bloat because it's so rich, but would just a little be okay to use as the medium for the ac? Anyone?

Thanks!

mwhit · #52 04/07/08, 08:03 PM

I give alfalfa pellets... it shouldn't be a problem. I'm so glad he's feeling better-- he was sooo cute at Christmas in that little snowball fight.

BTW-- my goats love ACV in their water and so do the chickens/turkeys.

Michelle

EasyDay · #53 04/08/08, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwhit

I give alfalfa pellets... it shouldn't be a problem. I'm so glad he's feeling better-- he was sooo cute at Christmas in that little snowball fight.

BTW-- my goats love ACV in their water and so do the chickens/turkeys.

Michelle

OK, thanks, mwhit. I'd like to get them ALL off of pellets, but like I said, I need a medium to put the ac for Sammy. I'll use the alfalfa then, just to avoid the grain in the other pellets.

I was surprised to see how heartily they all drink the acv water! It didn't sound appetizing to me, and I love vinegar. Even the kids (goat kids, that is) are drinking it.

Is there any known adverse effect of vinegar over time? Perhaps the urine gets TOO acidic? I know that too much ac can cause ammonia poisoning.... which concerns me a little, because how much is too much over time? Does ac build up in their systems? I need to get smarter on this.

mwhit · #54 04/08/08, 07:33 AM

I really don't know? I must need to get smarter too

I don't give them strong ACV water-- just a bit in it and I've never had a problem, but I'm no expert so hopefully someone else can answer your questions.

Michelle

Backfourty,MI. · #55 04/08/08, 07:36 AM

Easyday, The alfafa pellets for my boys was just a medium also to topdress with the molasses & AC. My boys are all roughly 60 pounds (we have mini's) & I give them each 1/3 cup a day topdressed. They scarf it right down. All my doe's still get a grain I mix with alfafa pellets in it.
The boys also have alfafa & grass hay all the time. It has worked for my boys. No more stones or crystals! Thank God!
I do give regular water also just in case someone wants the regular stuff. No adverse affects I know of from the vinegar. I think it helps all kinds of things.

BethW · #56 04/08/08, 08:35 PM

EasyDay, lots of other posters have answered your question, but I just put a good sized glug of ACV into a 2.5 gallon bucket. Maybe half a cup, no more. Not much, really. They love it though, and anything to entice them to drink is a plus.

I do give my boys a tiny bit of grain nightly. It's a quarter cup per goat made up of grain, alfalfa pellets, and BOSS...not even a handful, really. And I have small hands

I've been using it as a medium for their AC, but the AC just sifts to the bottom and my guys are such goofballs that they eat the grain and then lick the AC right off the bottom of their bowls. I wonder what they'd do if I just offered them the AC, lol.

I'm so glad Sammy's doing well!

SweetMissDaisy · #57 04/13/08, 10:51 PM

Hi all.....
I'm a new goat mama, and today was a big learning day for me!

We have a little buckling (said to be 2 months old) we started treating today for UC. Thankfully, I think we noticed his symptoms early. We've been giving him apple cider vinegar every 4 hours (will he ever forgive me!?), and that has clearly provided some relief, but not 100%. We'll visit the vet tomorrow....

This thread (and others) have been very helpful in providing much needed info. Today being a Sunday made things a bit more challenging, but we're betting by.

With all the reading I've done on UC, it's pretty obvious that this illness is diet related. We don't have good alfalfa hay here, so trying to find food that provides a balanced diet is proving to be tricky...

We feed hay, but since we don't have great alfalfa hay I feel like I need to supplement with SOMETHING... but now I'm not sure what would be best. We've been supplementing with DuMor goat feed from Tractor Supply, but I'm wondering if this is a bad choice. We seem to be so limited in options...

I'm a concerned mama trying to do things right!

EasyDay · #58 04/14/08, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetMissDaisy

Hi all.....
I'm a new goat mama, and today was a big learning day for me!

We have a little buckling (said to be 2 months old) we started treating today for UC. Thankfully, I think we noticed his symptoms early. We've been giving him apple cider vinegar every 4 hours (will he ever forgive me!?), and that has clearly provided some relief, but not 100%. We'll visit the vet tomorrow....

This thread (and others) have been very helpful in providing much needed info. Today being a Sunday made things a bit more challenging, but we're betting by.

With all the reading I've done on UC, it's pretty obvious that this illness is diet related. We don't have good alfalfa hay here, so trying to find food that provides a balanced diet is proving to be tricky...

We feed hay, but since we don't have great alfalfa hay I feel like I need to supplement with SOMETHING... but now I'm not sure what would be best. We've been supplementing with DuMor goat feed from Tractor Supply, but I'm wondering if this is a bad choice. We seem to be so limited in options...

I'm a concerned mama trying to do things right!

Welcome to the forum, SDM!

Grain seems to be the culprit. I was feeding regular goat pellets until Sammy's episode, so now they get a little bit of alfalfa pellets, instead. Something with no grain it it.

As for the hay, my goats prefer some rattier looking hay that we'd gotten somewhere. We got it for the horse, then when we broke open a bale, it has lots of briars in it. The goats prefer this over the better quality hay that we have. They pick out the leaves and thorny stuff. Plus, they have a large yard to browse in. I don't think the hay has as much to do with UC as does the grain.

Glad this thread was of some help to you, and keep us posted on how your little guy is doing, okay?