Disbudding - why?

yikes! I think it depends on the size of the nubs. the bucklings are probably bigger and you will have more problems (from what I have read) Mine were done at 3-1/2 weeks..they are Pygmy/ND. I would suggest you do a search on this forum and/or start a new thread with this question because if you are going to do it I think you need to do it ASAP

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Teach only Love...for that is what You are

It is probably not to late if you can find an experienced disbudder/goat breeder to do the job. They need to heave dealt with horns this big before and know what they are doing.
Where are you located??
What breed are they?? Bucklings, doelings or wethers?? It all makes a difference??

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Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

All our goats are dehorned except our angora goat. I was told that angoras get overheated and their horns help to deflect it so they don't get too hot. She never gets her head stuck in the fence but the goats that came here with horns and did get stuck in the fence I sold as soon as I could get them to auction. Our fences are too expensive and on a hot day, if they got stuck I'm sure they would have been dead before I could find them. We dehorn our kids and it's over with quickly and we have had no problems as of yet. It's scary but we consider it necessary.

I think it looks more natural to have horns, I can see why people would disbud them. I have 5 babies that I have not and will not disbud. I may change my mind later on down the road and disbud the kids I get next year, but this year I am going to try them with horns. My sweet Star (my purebred Nubian((very loud btw)) milk goat) does not have horns, she's five and my Dad bought her for me this year, She's my only purebred Nubian...my others are mixes, my two doelings are Togg., Nubian, and alpine, Nubian mixes, (although they both look more Saanen than anything...) and then I have my two soon to be wethers who are LaMancha, Togg. and Saanen, and then my buckling Rocky who is Alpine and Togg.
Anyway, I'm not disbudding at the present year, I do want to learn how so I can offer that to future customers.

Adios!

-Rebecca

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Hundred Acre Wood Farm
Knik, Alaska
http://www.Hundredacrewoodfarm.webs.com
Psalm 104:18
"The high hills are a refuge for the wild goats;
and the rocks for the conies."

I've always dehorned the doelings and sometimes do the bucklings.

The bucklings usually go to the auction at Easter time so are usually only around a year old and don't give any problems. However, I've also noticed that when I go to pour the feed in the trough, my face is just inches away from the horns. All it would take was a goat to lift his head up real quick and poke me in the eye.

However, when it comes time to take those bucklings to the auction, those horns sure do make nice handles!

It's more a personal decision for each goat owner and what their views and opinions are.

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Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania

"Everything happens for a reason."

I absolutely feel that if the buck that attacked me this morning had no horns then it would not have been so bad. I couldn't hit him anywhere except the nose and when he is slamming those horns into you you just don't have anywhere to hit... a tap on the head will at least deferr their attention for a moment... He tried to gore my neighbor, and may have attempted on me, but being on the ground may have been at the wrong angle. I will have my goats dehorned ASAP, I will not go through this mornings attack ever again...

I don't have goats, a few weeks away from getting my first milker and kids.
Up here with bears, coyotes, lynx, mountain lions, etc. I feel a goat without its horns is like a cat without its claws.
I have heard horns help regulate body temperature and that since they're part of the skull, de-budding a goat can affect how smart they are.
I am not at all excited about the idea of getting hit with those things and I also realize that their skulls are pretty darn hard too without the horns. Maybe a hornless goat is less likely to butt you though.
Anyhow, I do have kids too and if I ever sense my goats are a problem I just won't have them go in the pen with me.

We have always disbudded our babies and have only purchased goats without horns. For two reasons - one for the safety of myself and my childern. My childern - the youngest is 4 are always with me when we are doing chores and I wouldnt want them to be injured even if by accident. Second - the childern show in 4H and the animals that we show can't have horns. I think it is a resposible thing to do for all involved.

A disbuded goat doesnt affect how smart they are. My Nubian herd queen has it all upstairs her head might as well be horned, those heads are hard. One of her disbudded daughters was a little slow, somehow she would get her head stuck in the hay rack about once a month. But you have "slow ones" in every herd.
I had a horned buckling who was cuter n a bugs ear and just as cuddly but Stuffy was dumb as a sack of rocks.
At feeding time the line was "Where's Stuffy?" We had to look in the tall grass and go get him. No goat in their right mind misses the dinner call.

#1 I like my eyes in the condition they presently are....that is, still poke-free.
#2 I have kids.
#3 There is a difference between cleaning a pen of dehorned does and horned bucks. I don't turn my back on the bucks....and they're minis. One hook with a horn in the leg is enough (more so if you're a guy, I'm sure). And my buck only did it with affection in mind, he rubbed up against me, didn't actually butt me. Still hurt!
#4 I don't have to worry about stuff like this:

The tip of his horn eventually fell off, but bled quite a bit. He also banged it several times before it finally healed up, and now of course, he is missing that tip.

My other buck (and one doe) also has horns, something I couldn't change since he/she is grown and I don't like the idea of dehorning a mature goat. But I think in general the safety of hornless goats is better. Bucks are admittedly easier to move around with horns though, I agree with that. That's why I have collars around, for moving hornless goats.

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"The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap."

If you want dehorned goats, polled goats or disbudding at an early age is the way to go. As stated above by some, dehorning adult goats is not any fun for anyone, and it really does a number on the goats. My only experience dehorning adult goats was for a client who came home to find that his best doe had hung herself in a fence, and he wasn't about to have it happen again. I agreed totally, but that was a horrible experience. Fortunately most of my clients get theirs done as kids.

For those who trust their small children or siblings in a pen with the horned goats, well, I hope that you don't have a tragic story to post here someday. Or at least that you're talking about with close supervision. Children and animals behave unpredictably, and when together, that unpredictability is multiplied.

I am still on the fence about it. I have both horned and non. I have been hit but both but usually behind my knees since they are aiming to hit another goat. I feel no difference when I am hit since I really am not getting the full hit and it is the top of their head that gets me. Just 10 mins ago I had my one ignored kid pygmy hiding between my legs when a disbudded Nigie tried to hit her and got me instead. Jealousy is the only reason I have gotten hit and it is never hard enough to knock me down or even make me stumble. Animal crackers has caused me more injury than horns!
I have also been hit by a flying baby goat and no horns got me but the hard head did right in my face. So they hurt with or without horns.
I trust any and all my does with horns with my daughter. They have never ever tried to hit any of us or even put their heads down. I have raised these girls since they were little I trust them enough to meet them face to face and all they do is smell you and maybe try to take a nibble of your hair.
Bucks I do not trust with her horned or not. I have one of each and the horned buck is friendly and better behaved than the hornless guy. But neither is allowed near kids.
If I ever were to have any kids disbudded I would sit in my car with the music blasting so I could not hear them screaming and/or have their little heads numbed with painkillers.
I think there are pros and cons to each side and everyone makes the choice that is right for them that they can live happily with.

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If you have ever taken a horn to the eye there would be no question. :-) On the other hand with the horns they stand some chance against dogs or worse.

I disbud any doelings I keep. All bucklings and any females I'm going to cull don't get disbudded - I just don't see the point of putting them through that pain when they're going to be harvested before they get big enough to be a problem anyway.

I disbud the ones I'm keeping for several reasons, all of them already mentioned. Safety for me, safety for the animals. My goats are milking goats and are kept in close, secure pastures. If I had a meat goat flock out on the range or in big pastures I might feel differently and keep horns on them for protection, but in the situation I'm in, my goats shouldn't have horns.

What about putting weights on the horns so they grow lower?

I have had goats for about 3 years now started with pygmy's and grew to boers. The pygmy's I would definately disbud because of their (playful ways). On the boers though I have to say horns. I have a polled nanny and the rest all have horns. There is a natural pecking order wether your goats have horns or not, in my opinion. I have one nanny that is top dog and the rest know it. That is the way it is. I have a small herd so I can tell you the order my nannys go in. My buck has butted me so hard I went in the air about 3 foot and when I came down he hit me again and smashed me into the fence. You probly wont believe me but it was my fault. A lesson I learned since I have had my goats is when you bang the buck does also. He did that because we ran out of room in the kiddin house so we were building a stall in his barn with him in it. He never did it before and has not done it since. A couple of weeks later we added on to the back of his barn for the horses have more room and every time we hit the hammer the buck butted the back barn wall. It was not that he is mean it just made him want to bang on something like we were challenging him. We moved him and he quit. I think it is based on the breed and the personality of your herd whether to disbud or not. I think on the boer goats disbuded make the breed very unattractive. Just my opinion.

Another vote for disbudding here. After seeing a fine LaMancha buckling that was destined to be my herd sire die, my decision was even stronger. After my no-horns rule was in place, I had the opportunity to get this super nice buckling, with horns. I took him reluctantly because of those horns and banded them immediately. Before the bands had had the chance to do their job, he caught his horns in the stock panel fence. It was an extremely hot day, he was in full sun, was a black goat...and was dead in less than an hour. Never again.

All of my goats are gentle and friendly, with the exception of a few more shy ones, and none are aggressive, but just a swing of the head could seriously injure me or one of mine, if they were horned. Before we had the no-horns rule, I was hit in the temple with a horn - just one inch over, and it would have been my eye.

We also show, and no dairy goat can be shown with horns, but even if we were not showing, I still wouldn't have horns on any goat I'm going to be handling.

One other issue I had with horns: at feeding time, goats tend to head butt each other, and this could cause injury. Even nice goats will butt each other for dominance. I have one little doe who will now have a permanent lump in her neck due to a burst salivary gland----for someone who doesn't know that I had a vet check this out, they might suspect she has CL. The vet said it was no doubt caused by a horn poke, and although it's only cosmetic, try and sell a goat with that!

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"The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap."

For us there are a few reasons. The first is the risk to ourselves. We live very closely with our goats, they aren't just out in the field, they are being constantly handled and milked. Even a really friendly goat can swing her head around and catch you on accident. The second is to the above mentioned fences, no reason to have them get caught up, they have a huge risk of just sitting there being bait for a predator (or your own dogs!). The third is, for me, I think long term that goat is better off being without horns. If it ever leaves my property, I don't have any control anymore, if someone else decides to sell or give it away I feel that that animal has a better chance for a decent home without horns (I wouldn't buy or bring home a horned animal and almost everyone I know also would not). Lastly, it just isn't that hard to dehorn. In a matter of seconds when they are only a matter of days old you can wipe out all those problems in a relatively quick procedure. We started doing our own this year and we did end up with one job gone bad that we had the vet re-do but for the most part it's gone much better then expected. For us it's just the way to go.