What does every one do for castration

**mygoat** · #21 01/19/08, 09:48 AM

This year I plan on keeping most of my boys as meat kids. Dairies are pulled at birth and if they aren't sire quality and go as pets, they'll be banded probably around 4-8 weeks, depending on the individual kid. As for my miniatures (meat goats), I plan on leaving most if not all mini bucklings on their dams this year. I'm thinking I'll wether them at 8-12 weeks. They stay a LOT smaller than full size breeds and can be banded at a later age. I find that as soon as my bucklings are wethered their growth rate slows a lot, so I'm gonna hold off as long as possible.

BethW · #22 01/19/08, 10:40 AM

My boys were wethered with a burdizzo.

goatsareus · #23 01/19/08, 10:59 AM

I use the knife method. It requires little equipment. We do it as a two person operation. Dh holds the buckling on his lap, belly up, holding the two legs together on each side with one hand. We aim for about 5 days of age. We had a vet student show us our first time and I have been cutting them ever since, 30 years now. Use a sharp knife and slice off about 1/3 of the scrotum sack. The two testsicles should be visible. I push them up, one at a time, from the base of the scrotum and grab it with a pair of hemostats. It usually takes two trys, inching out the testicle, until I can grab the base of the testicle with the hemostat. Give a firm steady pull until the cord snaps. Do the other testicle. The wound should close quickly on its own. I sterilize the knife and hemostats before each operation. We do this in the evening so the goats are prone to be less active. By morning, the new wether is back to normal. I visually check the wound for a couple a days, but have never had any problems develop.

Dh does the disbudding, I do the castrations.

meleahbee · #24 01/19/08, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocM

If it's going to live past meat age, then I wait one month to allow urethra development and band.

I've always heard this too. I train my wethers as packgoats and I don't want any problems with stones! And I've heard that wethering them too early can contribute to that. When the time comes, I'll probably band them, but WAIT at least a month!

meleahbee · #25 01/19/08, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goatsareus

Use a sharp knife and slice off about 1/3 of the scrotum sack. The two testsicles should be visible. I push them up, one at a time, from the base of the scrotum and grab it with a pair of hemostats. It usually takes two trys, inching out the testicle, until I can grab the base of the testicle with the hemostat. Give a firm steady pull until the cord snaps. Do the other testicle. The wound should close quickly on its own. I sterilize the knife and hemostats before each operation. We do this in the evening so the goats are prone to be less active. By morning, the new wether is back to normal. I visually check the wound for a couple a days, but have never had any problems develop.

I also agree with this. I am a pre-vet student and I intern for a vet who regularly spays/neuters dogs and cats. He never cuts the cords to the testicles or ovaries but rips them by hand (sounds gross) but he says there is less bleeding that way.

Liese · #26 01/20/08, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonspinner

I'm wondering about the studies done in Europe, if being applied to how humans feel pain, would apply the same to goats.
Although my banded boys are clearly in pain for a couple hours, I would question their level of discomfort after that. When they get up the next day they're eating/running/playing like normal. I highly doubt, even if the chemicals in their blood show a supposed pain level, that they really are. Goats in pain don't kick up their heels, play butting games, etc.
Just my experience in several years of wethering.

While I am using Moonspinner's quote here this is a reply in general:
No, there is no difference to any animal about pain - pain is pain but there will be differences in how that animal expresses or reacts to pain. Obviously the human animal looks for ways to alleviate pain because we can at least do something for ourselves - if only chewing on a willow branch. Prey animals like sheep, goats, cows have evolved not to show pain - therefore I strongly believe that banding is a prolonged painful process that should not be used. Chemicals in the blood cannot lie - and obviously others can see the results since there are already posts here that they do not band a "meat" goat because 'why stress ...' - well that stress is from pain. You can't have it both way - if banding is not prolonged pain, why do studies done in the US on "meat" animals show that a banded animal puts on less weight gain? Now everyone does what they feel best so this is not an attack on your practices but a reply to your reasoning - that because an animal doesn't express pain in a certain way he doesn't feel it, again if you do any research I think you'll come away with a different realization.

Oldntimes · #27 01/20/08, 07:36 AM

I band at about 6 weeks old. They have all semed to do just fine with this.

goatsareus · #28 01/20/08, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meleahbee

I also agree with this. I am a pre-vet student and I intern for a vet who regularly spays/neuters dogs and cats. He never cuts the cords to the testicles or ovaries but rips them by hand (sounds gross) but he says there is less bleeding that way.

This is a very good point. Using this method greatly reduces the chances of infection because you never touch anything inside the scrotum. By pulling the cord until it snaps off, the small bit of the cord recedes into the scrotum immediately and the two sides of the cut scrotum also closes up. But be warned, it takes a steady hard pull to detach the testicle from the cord. And you need to have grasped (with the hemostat or your hand) at the base of the testsicle, or else the testicle will shread apart. I find I rest my wrist on DH's thigh to get enough leverage to pull out the testicle.

ozark_jewels · #29 01/20/08, 09:03 AM

Regardless of how you choose to do it, come to grips with the fact that it will cause pain, short-lived, but pain. I realize that cutting is a good method too, but for the new goat owners who want to do it themselves, I will always reccomend banding. Bleed-outs from cutting I have seen and its not pretty. And Burdizzos need an experienced hand as well because I have seen "wethers" from that method that could still impregnate a doe.LOL!!
I do not castrate my dairy bucklings that I intend to butcher by 4-5 months of age. Main reason being that many of them are from very nice does and I sell a few as bucklings through the course of the spring/summer. And when they are going to butcher that early, I see no reason to bother.

hoofinitnorth · #30 01/20/08, 05:50 PM

When you do the knife castration at home, do you administer any pain medications and tetanus anti-toxin?

Liese · #31 01/21/08, 04:59 AM

Last year was our first using the Burdizzo and castrating - we had to redo 1 wether on 1 side. When we changed to the milk stand for the lambs - 100% success. But we also made certain to examine the boys after a couple of weeks. There can be operator error in any method - certainly there are plenty of posts to prove that banding isn't fool proof either.

Heather, according to the NC State Vet, any method of castration really calls for a tetnus vacs, but most especially for banding and cutting. Over at VA Tech, they are cutting the lambs at 2-3 days old at the same time they admin. the CD&T. No pain meds but hey, they're tough Vet students there and don't need it eh?

goatsareus · #32 01/21/08, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoofinitnorth

When you do the knife castration at home, do you administer any pain medications and tetanus anti-toxin?

no, nothing. The only difference in my current techique between what the vet student taught me, and how she preformed the operation, is that she anesthetized the baby goat, an operation that she freely admitted was far more dangerous to the goat than the castration operation. But at that point, she had never castrated a goat before and felt more comfortable anesthetizing the goat.

I have performed this operation maybe 150 times, or more. 99.9% of the time I have has no problems with the operation. It is 100% effective, if you remove both testicles

. I do manually check for both descended testicles before I proceed with this operation. One time I did have a goat start to bleed, but this was stopped with the application of a bunch of cob webs. I have never had an infection result with the knife method.

As to this pain concern: the baby goat will scream bloody murder BEFORE we start this operation. The mere action of placing it on its back seems to trigger these severe maaaaaaas. I will pay attention to if the sceams change during the operation than the screams before I even touch the goat.
Does anyone have a comment on if a goat/calf/foal seems to go a bit shocky right after castrating with the knife method? The baby goat will go a little limp and not make any noise after the operation. Dh will hold him a bit, and then place him on a fresh flake of hay for the night. The cut part is well protected by the surrounding leg parts. If they do go a bit shocky, I wonder if this lessens the pain?

hoofinitnorth · #33 01/22/08, 09:01 PM

Is there any real trick to doing the home knife castration? I mean, if I were to do it with the description given, would I be successful or asking for trouble? I can't imagine I will be wethering much for a while but if I am, they will likely be sold as meat wethers so I guess if I ran into trouble I could just euthanize them and put them in the freezer. I just don't want to do something wrong and put them through unnecessary suffering, you know? I'm a weenie, what can I say?!

hoofinitnorth · #34 01/22/08, 09:03 PM

Oh yes, and if you're going to give tetanus ANTI-TOXIN, does it need to be done a bit before the castration, or can it be done afterward? Aside from making sure it's effective if used, I'm wondering about the scenario I just posted about possibly euthanizing the animal and using it for meat. If you didn't give the tetanus yet, you'd be ok, but if you already gave it...? I'd have to check my labels for withdrawal time...

goatsareus · #35 01/23/08, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoofinitnorth

Is there any real trick to doing the home knife castration? I mean, if I were to do it with the description given, would I be successful or asking for trouble? I can't imagine I will be wethering much for a while but if I am, they will likely be sold as meat wethers so I guess if I ran into trouble I could just euthanize them and put them in the freezer. I just don't want to do something wrong and put them through unnecessary suffering, you know? I'm a weenie, what can I say?!

When I researched castrating, I decided the knife method was the way I wanted to handle this. When the vet student showed me this method, I was brand new to goats and had not even butchered one yet. I could not have done it without watching someone first. We had two to castrate. She anesthetized the first buck and castrated it, and I castrated the second one, cold turkey. If you are brave enough to consider doing this, I would say to try it.

The only aspect I have not touched on, is the condition of the buck. You want to castrate a thriving, healthy buckling. The vet student stressed doing the knife method before 7 days of age. I like to aim for 5 days of age. The kids are off to a good start and recover quickly. But one year, I had a 10 pounder born 5 days overdue, and I castrated him at 2 days of age.

You need a helper to hold the goat. And be mentally prepared, that once you have the testicle firmly grabbed at the base of the testicle, that you firmly keep pulling until the cord snaps.

goatsareus · #36 01/23/08, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoofinitnorth

Oh yes, and if you're going to give tetanus ANTI-TOXIN, does it need to be done a bit before the castration, or can it be done afterward? Aside from making sure it's effective if used, I'm wondering about the scenario I just posted about possibly euthanizing the animal and using it for meat. If you didn't give the tetanus yet, you'd be ok, but if you already gave it...? I'd have to check my labels for withdrawal time...

I am sorry, I know nothing about this.

Charleen · #37 01/23/08, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feral Nature

I started in goats many years back and would have the vet castrate them by knife and he would charge 2 dollars.

After i saw how VERY SIMPLE it was, it was not even worth the gas to haul them to the vet...even at that cheap price. So i started cutting them myself. it is really a simple procedure if you have the constitution for it.

I have done all the castrating since then (just ask my DH). I like to do it by 2 weeks of age as there is minimal blood loss or distress.

Last year, a neighboring goat lady brought her banding apparatis here and i banded a few. I HATED it! it seemed to be more distessing to them and it took forever for their manhoods to fall off. One remained with gunky testicles for a while and it was disturbing to me. They all did fine but I just did not care for how long it took.

This year, back to the knife.

Feral Nature - I could have wrote this. We sugically castrate. Hubby holds them and I do the cutting. Healing begins IMMEDIATELY not a month later when the banded testicles finally atrophy. We've had much healthier kids, less problems by completely removing the testes.

hoofinitnorth · #38 01/23/08, 12:17 PM

I've been reading up on it and Goat Medicine has some interesting points. They talk about anesthesizing with a local in at least four places, the importance of shaving/shredding the cords vs. hand pulling, what to do if you are going to hand-pull to minimize the chance of a hernia, etc. They also talk about using an emasculator with a blade to cut the cord or applying a band just before castrating to help the severed ends of the cords safely retract into the abdomen. Lots of interesting stuff. I'm going to have to talk to the vet before I do anything like this!!

No one ever mentions sewing up the scrotum or applying antiseptic afterward???

goatsareus · #39 01/23/08, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoofinitnorth

No one ever mentions sewing up the scrotum or applying antiseptic afterward???

That is because neither procedure is necessary.

The wound closes immediately. If you are careful during this procedure, no antiseptic is necessary.

Rockytopsis · #40 01/23/08, 02:29 PM

Hoofinitnorth,

I asked my Vet about that when he did a older buckling for me and he said that since part of the sack is left on the goat when castrating that way, that to sew it up would cause any drainage to pool up in the remaining part of the sack and it would then become a problem. It is left open for proper drainage and will close and heal on its own in a day or so.