I am keeping for a few weeks....

fishhead · #21 10/23/07, 06:34 AM

Sulmet is also used for repiratory problems.

TheBiscuitQueen · #22 10/23/07, 09:37 AM

Well, I spoke with my friend and she does not want to give the goats any antibiotics or dewormers right now. SHe said that she wants their immune systems to recover first. I would probably at least deworm them if they were mine, but since they are not, I will follow her wishes.

So, I went and got electrolytes, and little guy slurped down 2 cups in about 30 seconds. OMG he is just so darned cute, sticking his little nose right in there and slurping away, his tail going a mile a minute! The package said for kids 1/2 cup per 6 lbs body weight, so I thought I should wait before giving him anymore. I also could not find alfalfa hay, so I bought alfalfa pellets. I am soaking some right now, and hopefully they will eat them fine.

Little guy seems pretty spunky still, and I have not seen any more diarrhea today so even though he is thin I think he will make it.

I really came close to just picking up the Sulmet anyways, had it in my hands at the store. I will be able to talk to her more later in the week, maybe she will change her mind.

oceanmist · #23 10/23/07, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBiscuitQueen

Well, I spoke with my friend and she does not want to give the goats any antibiotics or dewormers right now. SHe said that she wants their immune systems to recover first. I would probably at least deworm them if they were mine, but since they are not, I will follow her wishes.

So, I went and got electrolytes, and little guy slurped down 2 cups in about 30 seconds. OMG he is just so darned cute, sticking his little nose right in there and slurping away, his tail going a mile a minute! The package said for kids 1/2 cup per 6 lbs body weight, so I thought I should wait before giving him anymore. I also could not find alfalfa hay, so I bought alfalfa pellets. I am soaking some right now, and hopefully they will eat them fine.

Little guy seems pretty spunky still, and I have not seen any more diarrhea today so even though he is thin I think he will make it.

I really came close to just picking up the Sulmet anyways, had it in my hands at the store. I will be able to talk to her more later in the week, maybe she will change her mind.

your 'friend' is doing no better by these innocent, sick little baby goats than the "awful man" she took them from!

I don't care what she wants, those babies need your HELP not your indecision and her outright neglect of caring for their needs!

Get the sulmet, have it on hand, you are going to need it.

I'm sorry you may find this rude, but I just can't believe anyone is willing to allow a baby goat to suffer so that 'it's immune system can rebuild'!!!!!!

how is it going to rebuild when they are fighting God only knows what inside of them...
their immune system is WEAK, pulled down by worms and Coccidiosis and it will NOT and can NOT cure those problems anyway!
Even goats with the best of situations and conditions and immune systems need these products to eliminate worms and Coccidiosis..

If your 'friend' wants these goats to die, tell her to do it on her own time and at her own place.
If you are getting your own goats later on you are already contaminating the area where they will stay by not treating these babies

and you've also said a doe is Pg? my goodness, your friend is giving you awful information deary... JMHO

you will be lucky if that baby makes it through the week

Yes give them good, clean, dry NOT moldy, hay and "weeds" like dandelions or willow branches...

call your county extension office/ read books/ do whatever and find out what is growing around you that your goats can eat...

I just hope that this fire doesn't end up cooking them goats as well...

Misty

southerngurl · #24 10/23/07, 12:35 PM

If she owns the goats, you should not give them anything she doesn't want given to them.

If you don't like how she wants them care for, then tell her you are not going to be able to take care of them for her.

It's not your place to give meds to someone else's animal if they said not to, whether others have a different opinion or not. You can ask her and try to convince her, but don't go behind her back.

fishhead · #25 10/23/07, 12:55 PM

I'm glad I'm not in your shoes. You are in a tough spot.

I wonder if your friend knows that cocci can kill young goats very quickly and that sometimes they need help bringing the cocci organism under control before the immune system can mount a response equal to the challenge? Or that untreated cocci can scar the gut so badly the goat will always be on the verge of starving no matter how much food it eats.

TheBiscuitQueen · #26 10/23/07, 01:06 PM

Southerngurl, that is what I feel, thank you. I totally understand what you are saying, Oceanmist, but I have to go by what she wants here. My hands really are tied. I will talk to her tomorrow at length and let her know what position I am in here. I do not think one more day will make a difference at this point.

I will bring up the Cocci and offer to pay for the dewormer. That is the best I can do.

southerngurl · #27 10/23/07, 03:42 PM

You might give him some garlic, if she doesn't want him getting meds, it can't hurt and should help keep him from getting sick from other things (since he's weak) and helps the immune system. It should also help the cocci and worms to a degree.

trappmountain · #28 10/23/07, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBiscuitQueen

Southerngurl, that is what I feel, thank you. I totally understand what you are saying, Oceanmist, but I have to go by what she wants here. My hands really are tied. I will talk to her tomorrow at length and let her know what position I am in here. I do not think one more day will make a difference at this point.

I will bring up the Cocci and offer to pay for the dewormer. That is the best I can do.

You certainly are in a tough spot. But I would make it clear to her that they need to be taken care of. If she is unable to care for them properly she will need to rehome them. I think offering to pay for the dewormer is very kind. My only question is, if she can't afford to take care of them why did she buy them?

mwhit · #29 10/23/07, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trappmountain

My only question is, if she can't afford to take care of them why did she buy them?

Good question. I honestly would tell her that if she does not treat them, she needs to take them somewhere else. You are contaminating your stalls with these goats and cocci (or other maladies) can kill them very quickly. A thin kid with the scours (diarrhea) can die very quickly-- he needs meds ASAP. Your friend seems a little neglectful IMO. If she refuses to give them meds, I would at least give the buckling some pepto-- not Immodium it will kill them. The pepto may slow the scours a bit buying you a little more time.

Have you checked their mouth? Their gums should be pink-- if the gums are white they are wormy. Goats can not and do not 'just recover' from worms or many other conditions.

I know they are her goats, but I would not just sit back and watch an animal in my care suffer because the owner was being so neglectful-- yes, that's what she is, just like the man she 'rescued' them from.

As for what to feed them-- in your region there must be grasses, leaves (grapevine and apple are among their favorites) and they'll eat most weeds. If you were closer I'd come by and give you some help.

Michelle

oceanmist · #30 10/23/07, 09:34 PM

Jen I agree with who stated not to medicate someone else's goats... but I wanted to stress to you the importance of getting them treated. Now if that means giving your friend a friendly talk about the responsibility of caring for the babies then that's what you need to do.

It's just not fair to the animals to go untreated for ANY reason... if she doesn't want to take responsibility for them, she needs to give them to you or someone else who will treat them appropriately.

I wasn't trying to tell you to go behind her back.

Misty

fishhead · #31 10/23/07, 09:55 PM

My goats absolutely love raspberry leaves so if you have any of those handy I'll bet they will scarf them up.

hobbyfarmer · #32 10/23/07, 10:13 PM

I read that these goats are at your house to "quarantine" them from your friend's herd, correct? Why is your friend buying goats if she doesn't have room for them? You only need one stall or one small pen that doesn't share a fence line to quarantine a few goats. If she doesn't have enough room or the financial resources to set up her own quarantine area then I don't imagine she has any business bringing 6 more goats into her herd no matter how healthy they may or may not be. I know this may sound harsh and I don't mean to be but if I were in your shoes, I would tell my friend that this arrangement is not really working out and she'll have to bring her new goats home and care for them herself. Don't get me wrong, I know a good friend is priceless but I think she's put an awful lot on you since she seems to consider herself an experienced goat owner and you are not. If she knows anything about them at all - she knows that moving is stressful on a goat and she should have been prepared to help you get them settled and on the right track from the get-go, IMO.

southerngurl · #33 10/23/07, 10:19 PM

Now I think that's going to far. It may be that she picked these guys up to save them and doesn't have a place built for them yet. Maybe she doesn't want to shell out the cash and time to build something, when something already existed and she would only need it for a short period of time anyway.

hobbyfarmer · #34 10/23/07, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southerngurl

Now I think that's going to far. It may be that she picked these guys up to save them and doesn't have a place built for them yet. Maybe she doesn't want to shell out the cash and time to build something, when something already existed and she would only need it for a short period of time anyway.

Oh, I'm sure her heart was in the right place. Most people are genuinely concerned for the welfare of any animal. But, I've raised goats for years and I can't see running out and purchasing SIX goats that I can't immediately house. How is she saving them if she doesn't have room for them and refuses to see to their medical care? I really feel that if I don't want to "shell out the cash and the time" to properly house and care for an animal then that animal is no better off with me than it was with the previous owner.

I'm not sure how waiting until later to treat for internal parasites is "rescuing" these goats. Especially in view of the fact that this owner has subjected them to the added stress of moving without seeing to their care. Honestly, I think letting a good friend shoulder the burden of their care without helping her out is going too far.

oceanmist · #35 10/23/07, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbyfarmer

Oh, I'm sure her heart was in the right place. Most people are genuinely concerned for the welfare of any animal. But, I've raised goats for years and I can't see running out and purchasing SIX goats that I can't immediately house. How is she saving them if she doesn't have room for them and refuses to see to their medical care? I really feel that if I don't want to "shell out the cash and the time" to properly house and care for an animal then that animal is no better off with me than it was with the previous owner.

I'm not sure how waiting until later to treat for internal parasites is "rescuing" these goats. Especially in view of the fact that this owner has subjected them to the added stress of moving without seeing to their care. Honestly, I think letting a good friend shoulder the burden of their care without helping her out is going too far.

I agree with hobbyfarmer

how is letting that little baby waste away with diarrhea and not treating it when you know how and someone has offered to do it and pay for the meds "rescuing" it???????

Misty

Jillis · #36 10/24/07, 07:10 AM

From what I understand, if you do not treat the cocci, the intestines will be scarred and the babies stand a good chance of being very unthrifty animals. If the lungs are scarred from congestion, same thing.

Sulmet will treat both. Your friend is not doing them any favors, The reason they are sick is that they have been stressed. Letting them be further compromised by fighting off illness and parasites without your intervention is foolishness that comes from lack of basic information about how immune systems function.

These goats are in a domestic situation, not out in the wild. If they are going to thrive or even survive, they need to be medicated immediately.

I get the liquid Sulmet for 5 days. I give 1 cc per 5 lbs of weight on the first day, then 1 cc per 10 lbs of weight on the next four days. A few hours after the dose, I give the babies some probiotics.

This is the only thing that worked on my dairy babies that I got from a large farm. I had tried Corid w/o success.

You also NEED to get them some good minerals that have copper in them, either horse minerals, or Sweetlix Meatmaker for goats. If you can get the Sweetlix with rumensin, that will break one the life cycles of the Coccidae.
But if you have horses, make sure they can't get into the rumensin minerals, it will kill them.

I hope your friend listens to some sense. If it were me, I'd hand them back to her rather than watch them suffer and die on my place.

Blessings, Jill!

susanne · #37 10/24/07, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jillis

t I'd hand them back to her rather than watch them suffer and die on my place.

Blessings, Jill!

exactly what i think too

southerngurl · #38 10/24/07, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbyfarmer

Oh, I'm sure her heart was in the right place. Most people are genuinely concerned for the welfare of any animal. But, I've raised goats for years and I can't see running out and purchasing SIX goats that I can't immediately house. How is she saving them if she doesn't have room for them and refuses to see to their medical care? I really feel that if I don't want to "shell out the cash and the time" to properly house and care for an animal then that animal is no better off with me than it was with the previous owner.

I'm not sure how waiting until later to treat for internal parasites is "rescuing" these goats. Especially in view of the fact that this owner has subjected them to the added stress of moving without seeing to their care. Honestly, I think letting a good friend shoulder the burden of their care without helping her out is going too far.

I was not disagreeing with you on the care on the animal. I just thought you were being a bit assumptive about the housing. For example, I don't have a place to quarantine goats. It would not be far fetched for me to see some poor goats that I feel I could help and keep them on someone else's property that does not have goats at all and already has a place suitable to hold them, if they were ok with it and I felt comfortable asking them to.

Now, I would give them what they need to get over their sickness, that I'm not argueing about.

Jillis · #39 10/24/07, 05:59 PM

I forgot to mention, that is undiluted sulmet, and it is given by drawing it up into a syringe with no needle on it. Then squirt it into the back of the goat's mouth. Hold their head up and stroke their necks until you feel them swallow.

The stuff tastes majorly nasty, and I have had varying reactions from goats. Some had absolute fits, and others wanted more, and most just made a funny face and tried to get the taste out by going "nyuk, nyuk" with their tongues on the roofs of their mouths.

I hope she lets you treat them.

Jill!

fishhead · #40 10/24/07, 07:17 PM

When I treated one of my wethers with sulfa I put a small amount of pepto in the tip of the syringe to cover the bad taste. I suppose molasses would work too.