Critque my buck?

6e · #21 09/17/07, 01:02 PM

I think something any one has to think about when keeping a buck is to take into consideration that one will be spreading their genes through the entire herd and does he have the genes that one wants in their babies? Will he improve the herd. One also has to look at what weaknesses are in the does. Does the buck improve those points? Like if the does are short bodied, is the buck long bodied? And so forth. One can buy does that are not perfect and improve upon the babies by the very buck that they breed to. He is the most important part since all the babies will carry his genes.

I've found the rest of the pedigree to be only semi important since you can have an awesome pedigree, but a crap animal standing in front of you and there's not much you can do about that. They tend to pass on their genes before their ancestors genes. But generally speaking, you don't get awesome out of crap.

I think you are the only one that can judge what you're looking for in your buck and what you're wanting to do with your herd and what you're breeding for. What characteristics do you want to improve upon and what do you want to cull for? You are the best judge for your own herd and your goals.

Julia · #22 09/17/07, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

i'm not saying anywhere that he has an undershot

Then I don't understand what you're saying...

susanne · #23 09/17/07, 01:13 PM

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if you look at his chin, it could be a little bit fuller, forming a straight line with his upper part of his muzzle.

what i was saying is that from the picture it looks like his chin could be fuller (looks a little bit on the thin side to me) and pulled a little bit more forward so it will forming one line with the upper lip.
LOC did you understand what i meant?

Julia · #24 09/17/07, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

what i was saying is that from the picture it looks like his chin could be fuller (looks a little bit on the thin side to me) and pulled a little bit more forward so it will forming one line with the upper lip.

Oh, you were saying he is overshot or parrot-mouthed. Sorry. It's past my nap time....

susanne · #25 09/17/07, 01:47 PM

did not say that either

go to bed and have a good nap

Julia · #26 09/17/07, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

did not say that either

But that's what "looks like his chin could be fuller...and pulled a little bit more forward so it will forming one line with the upper lip" means. Overshot. His upper jaw doesn't meet his lower jaw evenly when viewed from the side, because his lower jaw is receded.

?

HazyDay · #27 09/17/07, 02:31 PM

From what I get from you. The chine and toplines, etc don't really matter!

If you show EVERY part of him should be CORRECT!

From a just a pet and milk stand-point!
1.Udders (good attchment, wide,length,etc)
2. Teats (From what im told 2 inches around here is just about to long! A milker longer teats would be good if you hand milk.)
3. LEGS (I stress legs to every one I talk to! Good legs straight legs! I need to work on that!.)
4.Pasterns- Need good ones if you want does that can milk for years and carry the weight of kids and the pounds to milk!

Please give us some better pictures!

Feral Nature · #28 09/17/07, 05:27 PM

A lot of crazy talk on this thread....so naturally, it attracted my attention.

LOC, you do sound a bit touchy and I do beg to differ about the comment regarding the buck's dam not really mattering in the "grand scheme of things" because she only is contributing 25% of the DNA to the offspring. Well, on my farm, twenty-five percent is a pretty big amount of DNA for a single animal to contribute, so in my grand scheme of things, I am as careful as possible in choosing who is bred to who. Silly, I know, but that's just me.

I no longer own Nubians, but many years ago had some limited experience raising, breeding and showing them. I have since switched breeds. So no Nubian expert here but can see that i do like that your buck walks uphill but I have to agree with DocM that I would not use him or advise my neighbor to do so. It could be the photo, but he lacks the "it" factor. A buck needs to be a rock-star as he is half the herd (which makes his momma's DNA pretty important after all I guess).

HazyDay · #29 09/17/07, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feral Nature

A lot of crazy talk on this thread....so naturally, it attracted my attention.

LOC, you do sound a bit touchy and I do beg to differ about the comment regarding the buck's dam not really mattering in the "grand scheme of things" because she only is contributing 25% of the DNA to the offspring. Well, on my farm, twenty-five percent is a pretty big amount of DNA for a single animal to contribute, so in my grand scheme of things, I am as careful as possible in choosing who is bred to who. Silly, I know, but that's just me.

I no longer own Nubians, but many years ago had some limited experience raising, breeding and showing them. I have since switched breeds. So no Nubian expert here but can see that i do like that your buck walks uphill but I have to agree with DocM that I would not use him or advise my neighbor to do so. It could be the photo, but he lacks the "it" factor. A buck needs to be a rock-star as he is half the herd (which makes his momma's DNA pretty important after all I guess).

All the above!!!!

Blossomgapfarm · #30 09/17/07, 07:43 PM

I agree - and lay off Vicki - I need her knowledge and willingness to share it!

southerngurl · #31 09/17/07, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocM

Good grief.

4. I'm sure what you wanted was for everyone to say "ooo, what a pretty buck". In that case, you could have just titled it "look at my pretty buck!" However, in this case, if you want an honest critique, provide something to critique. He looks horrible in that picture. Is that the answer you want? I wouldn't breed him to my neighbor's goats, and I don't like my neighbor.

Wait a minute, doesn't a double negative make a positive?

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #32 09/17/07, 08:48 PM

Well, Scientifically my bucks dam will only contribute 25% of herself to his offspring, she really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. There are 3 other goats to consider as well. It's science and fact. You must look at all, not just the dam.
................................

She doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. OMG!!!!!

My point was that if you are happy with him than use him...I wouldn't unless I knew what his dam milked, what she looked like and what her offspring or family was like. Even with just backyard goats you at least want to do this.

Using your idea of genetics I would never use a buck like this with such a weak rearend, from his loin back and even some parts of his loin, he is just too weak. And since with your idea of genetics he will then give you 50% kids with this right? His neck is too short and not masculine, his head is weak especially his nose in breed character and his ears are short, really really short. His rump is thin and steep.

I should have just wrote this post to begin with. I rarely critique goats on this forum, why they are doing their job as breeding stock...I was actually trying to be KIND LOC, because he is just awful...I was hoping you would then come back on after my first post in which I placed a smile after my spots joke because I hate spots, and say "His dam is so and so, or his dam milks 9 pounds a day for 10 months on a nice udder and is 8 years old with really good feet and legs!" Then who cares what he looks like.

I have/had two really ugly bucks and I wouldn't sell them for any amount of money, because their families were the direction my farm needed to go to make me money.

I think you were wanting to pick a fight with me. Why don't you just not read my posts? And your appraisal crack is laughable. Vicki

HazyDay · #33 09/17/07, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blossomgapfarm

I agree - and lay off Vicki - I need her knowledge and willingness to share it!

I do to! Why is it lately it is a pick on Vicki a thon?

Wow! People I kind of believe what DocM says (that got me in crap last time so I try not to say any ones name.) I do think half of the animals posted on here were just because they think their buck is so good! When they really want you to say such pretty goats!

I did! my post, I wanted to hear such pretty goats and then get a few bad comments, But in the run if things they are my first breeding kids. So they will never be 100% correct. Im learning slowly and getting a herd of *ok* does. Im trying my best. But when I hear things like that buck is just a pile of crap and he has this wrong and this wrong. I get a little afraid to post any pictures of my buck.

Im going to post my buck tomorrow and I WANT TO HEAR THE 100% true about him. He is my first 100% purebred buck of my own and is just here cuz I needed a buck and his Father is a huge champion that has so many champion sons and dauthers. But hey his lines are only 25% wait NO! that jack *** I get the mother from bred him with his dauther so they are 75% his!!! But does that really matter???

southerngurl · #34 09/17/07, 09:05 PM

Well, Vicki, you are welcome to critique my goats any day, and I won't get angry. Reality is reality, and you have to know it in order to deal with it. What goat is perfect? We need to know the faults in order to deal with them appropriately. To improve your herd! I really appreciate critiques (of my animals' or others), and I've noticed it's kind of hard to get anyone to do that on this forum. On the horse forum you will get a lot of feedback it seems, but sometimes on the goat forum you post and nobody really says anything. I don't know if people are worried about making someone mad or what. But just because some are sensitive, well, please don't let that keep you from helping those that are honestly looking for constructive feedback.

If someone asks for a critique, they should expect people to be critical!

Certainly a person should try to mention the animals positive points too, so long as you aren't just trying to make some up to tickle their ears.

I was tickled pink to get a critique of my little doe. I was really happy that the main things she said were her weak points were what I had noticed. Means I'm learning something. Maybe I'll even show one of these days.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #35 09/17/07, 09:52 PM

It's a no win situation as you can see

southern girl. When on forums with friends it's easy, we simply post that if you want a critique give us good photos and what are you wanting us to point out.

Just last year I loved this doeling, I mean I thought she was excellent. At appraisal the appraiser had someone else handle the doeling for me so I could look at her....look at her awful awful front legs

We had a great laugh over this. When I want someone to see something I email them and ask them...Hey Kaye what is it about this rump I don't like but can't see!?? Even in the show ring and apparisal sessions, I don't pick and choose what I breed here only by that, because honestly what I breed doesn't really go by the scorecard. It goes by what I know will hold up and what I want to feed and look at.

Soo asking on a forum really is about, isn't she cute, and some of them really are! Vicki

Tracy in Idaho · #36 09/19/07, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

It's a no win situation as you can see

Ain't that the truth!!!!

I kinda stopped replying to these threads because like LOC, people just get plain po'd when you point out the bad stuff about their animals!

I send lots of pics to Kaye too ;-) There are lots of times that I go -- "something" is not right with this animal, but I just can't put my finger on it. To a new, unbiased eye, it might jump right out at them and then I can go AHHHH!

I don't need to be told what I do like about an animal, I want to be told what I am missing!

Tracy

LOC · #37 09/19/07, 09:29 AM

Sorry, but I did not get PO'd over people pointing out the bad in my animal. That's what I asked for. In fact I thanked them for it.

I never wanted nor asked for anyone to say how pretty he is, like I said I could care less about color, if I wanted someone to sing and dance about his spots, well I can get that from any 4-H kid anyday of the week.

I asked for a critique, if you thought he was good, great. If you thought he was bad, great. I have no problems with either. I got tired of the defend the idol thread it turned into and left it alone.

Have a great day. And next time anyone wants an animal critiqued I suggest that you post bloodlines it seems that it's a must on this forum to judge bloodlines only not really the individual animal. I think I'll go back to my other lists for the goats anyway. At least there people give me the what I ask for - good or bad - without being rude about it or idolizing any individual.

Rudeness begets rudeness and I do NOT have to tolerate it for any aspect of my life, even for 'free' information. It amazes me what the world is now coming to when people accept rudeness a price and think it's perfectly acceptable. And people wonder why I much prefer my animals to humans...

Feel free to keep on commenting etc. OR lock the thread. I'm done with it. Have fun.

southerngurl · #38 09/19/07, 10:02 AM

I see what you mean about the pasterns now. I watched my does walking this morning, and their legs don't get stretched way out like that.