Bumping up since we are speaking of hermaphrodites again.

That would be funny if the hermaphrodite was named almond joy....

Cool Post Very Informative

Wow! I'm glad you decided to post the "questionable" pix. SO informative! I once had a doeling that I thought could very well be a hermaphrodite. Wish I would have had this info back then!

I was told I also had one. Isis has this bulb like thing at the opening of her private area. When she goes to the bathroom(number1) It goes around it. I would like to post some pictures of it and maybe someone could tell me what it is. She also walks like she has a pair. Her sister April walks like a normal doe. Interesting.

Thanks for bumping... very informative

go to www.photobucket.com and upload the photos you want to put on here. After they are uploaded click the picture you want hover over it and there will be like file, edit, resize, rotate etc. Click on share and then get link code. Go down to IMG for bulletin boards & forums. Copy the full size code it will start with [IMG] then go to this forum and paste the code in your message. Thats how you put a photo on here.


Thank you so much for posting this. And everyone that bumped it up. I am sure we will get one of these if we stay in goats just hope its not for a long time.

Bumping this, because I have discovered I have a hermie, and it was a pain to dig this out. Think we could sticky it?

Emily, I have a question: As a long time breeder, if you sold a doeling that was later found to be an hermaphrodite, how would you handle the situation?

I'm not Emily, but if you sold the doe for a breeder/milker as I expect you did, then I would, at least, replace the animal with one of similar breeding. Or refund the money.

I'm also not Emily.. BUT.. if I were to sell a doeling to a show/milking home (not knowing she was a hermie).. I would either replace her or give them back their purchase price (what to do with her would be dependent on the situation.. if they wanted to keep her as a *pet*... I'd have no problems with that.. just send me back her papers... if they wanted to cull/eat her.. again fine.. but I'd want the papers also returned) I just wouldn't be comfortable replacing/refunding and then the doe possibly being sold with papers to someone else...

susie, mo ozarks

My reputation as a breeder is more important than a few hundred $.

Im sorry.That sounds kinda bad.

I actually didn't sell her. I bought her...and she was the MOST expensive one I bought last year because of her outstanding lines.

I had been waffling about calling her breeder, as I had suspected she was a hermie for a little while now.... and I didn't have a contract.

Now it has confirmed...she is a hermie. So I plan to call her breeder on Monday. I just wanted to get an idea of what to expect or how I address the issue.

Mondo bummer, CaliannG. I'm so sorry. :(

Do let us know how things go with the breeder, won't you?

I'll certainly let everyone know what happens. Since southerngurl and yarrow chimed in, and I know them well and respect them as breeders, at least I know what a *responsible* breeder should say. That Kit&Kids, who I don't know as well says the same thing is heartening also.

I know that if it were me, I'd refund the money or offer another doe/doeling of like lines. (I'd prefer another goat, personally, as the lines are stupendous.) But I wasn't sure what was considered common with larger herds or more prolific breeders. After all, I don't have a contract or anything, so I guess it would be easy to say, "Sorry, sold as is."

Which I would understand if it were a case of disease...never know if they picked it up later. But hermaphrodism is most certainly a genetic thing. Not the breeders fault, but also not caused by something *I* could have done.

~grinz~ I know lots about science, goat care, diseases, medications, etc., but very, very little about how show people and long term breeders handle things. :)

Sorry, with kidding season and milking without a barn......not online much right now!!

If I sold a doeling who was later discovered to be unbreedable due to hermaphroditism or other physical abnormalities, I would replace said doeling free of charge. If that was not possible, I would refund what they had paid for her. Same if I sold a buckling who in good condition was found to be sterile. Neither has happened to me yet......But its always possible.

A doeling I sold as a bottle kid who wouldn't breed but was physically normal when checked by a vet? That is most likely management and I would not consider myself obligated to replace or refund. If they were reasonable, I'd likely offer to help them work something out to our mutual satisfaction.

As I have had two physically abnormal doelings born here in the past several years, I have become very aware of doelings who seem "different" at all in the vulva/udder areas. I check closely when born and again before a sale. I kept "Time Will Tell" this past kidding season out of a set of quads for the simple reason that her vulva tipped up quite a bit on the end and I wasn't comfortable selling her before assuring myself she would breed. She took on her first heat cycle and just kidded with beautiful buck and doe twins just after her first birthday, is also milking great. So Time has indeed told.:thumb:

Anyway, thats how I will handle the situation if it ever arises. If I sell a breeding stock animal, it better be able to breed(barring mismanagement on the part of the owner), or it will be replaced.

Hope things go well with the breeder. If you have had it confirmed, I would certainly contact the breeder. A responsible breeder would indeed replace said animal.

Greatly appreciate your time to educate other goat breeders.......................

I think I have one. Isis has this little nub coming out of her vulva and when she pees she pees around it. She comes in heat every once every 3 months, acts Bucky looks Bucky.

I was hoping to find someone else with the same problem. I thought I was the only person out there with this weird goad hanging around, and not understanding what I was talking about :shrug:. My vet has NEVER seen one before.

vpiece, look also at my thread "Hermaphrodites Happen". I posted a description of Bamboo in there.

I WILL get pics up of Bamboo to show how she differs from my other doeling of near the same age. Unfortunately, it is still raining, my internet (satellite) is spotty, and it took me all day just to get the new pictures of Cypress uploaded today. ~mutter, grumble, groan~

I will get the Bamboo pics up in the next couple of days. Bamboo, though, has never gone into heat at all. However, hermies ARE individuals with different traits.

There are also other physical abnormalities besides classic hermaphroditism that can cause a female of the species to be unbreedable. Most are not common, but they are out there too.

Thank you, Emily!

Oh, how I have MISSED you!

Well, I just wanted to let y'all know that Isis my hermaphrodite has enough girl parts to get pregnant. That bulb like thing at the opening of her vulva is an extra large clitoris. I was able to find it in one of my books, Not sure which one. It said if a goat has an extra large clitoris that means they are a hermaphrodite. Any how, she was with the buckling since I got him last July as a companion so he wouldn't be alone, thinking she couldn't get pregnant, and now she is almost ready to kid out. I haven't been outside yet to check on her this morning at 6.30 am. I just thought I would let y'all know that I guess its possible. I am not sure if I can post photos of it on photo bucket, because the last time I had pictures like that someone got offended and they got deleted. I can certainly try.

You know it always interests me that so many people on these boards seem to get excited about polled goats. Around here most farmers immediately send any polled goats to slaughter (market) because it is indicative of hermaphrodite type issues. They go for like $10- $20 at the auction too. They are just considered substandard. Even baby billies are considered almost worthless if they are polled because people feel they will be sterile.
It is just interesting that the idea of polled goats seems popular in other areas of the nation. The first thing that caught my attention about your hermaphrodite goat images was the fact that it was polled. That would never have been kept in this area by farmers around here because they always feel that polled goats have sexual/gender issues of some sort.

Doesn't appear any of the goats discussed in this thread are naturally polled. I know Emily stated her's weren't. She doesn't raise polled goats.

There is a small chance that a gene linked to hermaphroditism is carried along the polled gene in some lines. The study done was with one group of closely related goats of one breed. The first hand experience of numerous other breeders simply does not support the findings of that one study.
Polled, in some cases, has been claimed to increase productivity in goats. I don't necessarily believe it myself, but to each their own.
Polled certainly does not affect fertility negatively. At least it hasn't here. Had two polled does each deliver triplets this year (the one delivered triplets last year as well).
Our Polled Nubian buck, Rudy, who passed away at 6 1/2 years old produced at least 102 kids in those years. 48 of those kids were known to be polled. Only one potential hermaphrodite in all that time. A kid resulting when he broke out and bred his polled daughter. The doeling didn't live to see a month (smothered in a kid pile) and I never opened her up to be sure one way or the other. The doeling had an older disbudded half sister (same dam, disbudded sire) who had the same bulbous clitoris and has kidded twice...so I am not as positive about her hermie status as I once was.

Such a loss for your area. Although one would question, if polled is so bad and culled, how do they keep showing up? It is a dominant trait and requires at least one parent to be polled. If everyone around there immediately culled for it, there wouldn't be any around to produce polled kids. Where do you live?
50% less kids to disbud...quite a nice thing for me.
So thankful Rudy has a polled grandson (born to a polled daughter) that I can retain and raise up for breeding purposes. Actually...we have a Polled 88% Boer buckling born to a polled Rudy granddaughter we are leaving intact as well to get some horns off the Boer side of the farm as well.

I might point out that after so many kids born (I suspect we are at close to 350-400 kids by now in the past decade+ we've been kidding out goats) we have finally had two or three hermaphrodites...Geisha never did settle. I sold her as a pet after trying to three years to get her bred. Her teats were almost none existent and she was not very feminine. We sold another doe as an open three year old the same year. Again very small teats. Not very feminine. Both were disbudded. From two different lines (shared only one buck in their pedigrees and there was no polled in their lineage that I know of).
This past year we had a disbudded doe born with two brothers. I am fairly sure what I see is a penis and not a simple enlarged clitoris like I originally hoped. She does not appear bred and her peermates (all pen bred to a fertile buck) are bred. Again, no polled anywhere in her lineage that I know of.

I saw a most interesting animal and so wish the batteries in my camera had worked. An Alpine "doe." At a year old, she had a vulva, but there was no denying the testosterone in her system! Just looking at her she was a buck through and through. The shape, the smell, everything but that little vulva and lack of a penis under her belly. Disbudded goat, not polled.

I was thinking about this topic the other day while looking around online... I know some breeders are breeding polled to polled without having much of any issue at all. And then I stumbled upon this breed, which is bred to be hornless... I wonder what breeders of that breed have experienced regarding hermaphrodites in their herds?

Cool goat! I wish I could get one. I'm still not convinced that my doe Spice isn't a hermie. She never settled even with a CIDR and the PG600. She never came into heat. Bucks weren't even interested in her. She mounts the other girls and even the doelings even though she is on the bottom of the pecking order. She constantly challenges me by stanging up an trying to head butt me and she was my bottle baby. She acts bucky. Breeder won't refund unless the vet proves she is a hermaphrodite. The vet said the DNA test is really expensive. So I'm stuck with a bucky girl who won't breed.

No, this hermie was not polled and none of her relatives were polled.

Can your vet do a probe check?? Thats what my vet did and it was certain. They can use a probe, my vet used her gloved finger.

Hey, post pics of she and her kids when they come....

It is just interesting how different areas have different ideas about what is and isn't important when it comes to livestock.

I had a buck that was about 3 years old, and I looked over at him one day and was wondering what had happened to his testicles, below is what I found,
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...buckteats2.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n.../buckteats.jpg

That actually is not unheard of bucks from very milky lines. Some bucks actually require milking during times of elevated hormones (rut) and some have even required mastectomies.

Whhhhhhattttttt! Crazy!

Gynecomastia, how embarrassing for him ! LOL

Wow! That is weird! I have heard that human men can also lactate, but never actually seen it. I wonder if he was milked if his milk would be normal goat milk? Talk about a dual purpose animal...

About the polled goats showing up where people don't like/breed polled, I wonder if there are some disbudded polled goats throwing those babies? My Snickers is polled and nobody ever told her she was "supposed" to have any fertility problems. We have bred her three times and she has kidded three times with no problems for us. This year she had quints and managed to stealth kid all five of them in a space of maybe a half hour while I was grabbing a quick nap from being up all night!