Substitute fat instead of BOSS?
 

O.K. you have all got me going on this formulating your own feed thing.....but I called today about BOSS. They said it was $17 for 50 pounds! Holy cow!

If I did a grain mix of oats, corn and barley what would I have to add for fat?

And...if I did free choice grass/alfalfa hay, alfalfa pellets, free choice minerals and baking soda is the above grain mix (with some sort of fat) the only other thing I would need?

Is the protein in the above diet high enough for milkers?

Dee

try looking at the local walmart and see how much a bag of Black Oil sunflower seed is there, i dont remimber but i think it was cheeper than that,

if it is just have them mix what they can mix then you add a measure of the BOSS sprinkled over top

Think of it as something like a seasoning. You don't feed much at a time.

What Rose said. Just a handful.

NeHi

What the heck is BOSS?

BOSS is Black Sunflower Seed

Black oil sunflower seeds in the hull.

As far as the oil substitute read the thread on feeding alfalfa by hoofinit.

I feed BOSS even though its expensive.I have a had a difficult time finding specific values for BOSS and values for sunflower seeds in general have varied. I have found much for regular seeds for human consumption although the values have varied but remained mostly in close ratio to one another and I don't think that the black oil ones would be too different but do your own research. this is why I'm stickng with it....

it has the right ca/p ratio
it is high in protein
is a good fat supplement
it is considered one of the best sources for selenium and vit e for people (which many people feel the need to supplement via bo-se injections in their goats)
it is high in fiber(safer in general)
copper*

* the reason that I initially read up on it is that, while researching copper and supplementing n goats, I ran across a statement concerning how much sunflower seeds a person could ingest without suffering copper toxicity. made me think. although I have found little else regarding copper and sunflower seeds as of yet.

since bo-se injections are common practice and I was thinking of copper bolusing I decided I would rather just feed some BOSS! its my own little experiment substituting BOSS for the fat,copper,vit E,protein,selenium supplement all wrapped in a high fiber package. my 2 c

I'm doing something a little different right now with my milkers.

First I was using BOSS. That became expensive after several years so I went to corn for the fat. Then corn went through the roof and became expensive (at least around here with the drought and then the floods).

Now I am using corn oil in a sqiurt bottle that I keep near the milkstand. I put a handful of beet pulp in the feed pan along with there milkstand ration and squirt some corn oil on the beet pulp at milking time. The beet pulp kind of absorbs it and keeps it from running to the bottom of the pan.

The girls coats became shinier and I feel like they are getting some fat.

I am having a problem with cut ants getting into things right now so this is better anyway.

So far so good :)

Also, a little off topic but I'll post it here anyway: last week there was a discussion on loose minerals and baking soda. Yesterday I priced "feed grade sodium bicarbonate" (aka baking soda) at one of the feed stores and it was $13-something for a 50 pound bag. Cheaper than buying the little boxes! If your feed store doesn't carry it, ask them to order it for you. If they can't (or won't), find another feed store.

Janis

Depending on where you are and who you can buy it from, Flax seed is wonderful. I feed it to my goats in their grain and also in my poultry feed. Shiny coats, good health. I pay $8/25lbs and you don't feed much of it, maybe an ounce per head.

I stopped using BOSS when I realized that their crummy coat quality was because they lacked copper. I went to copper bolusing and they have beautiful glossy coats now.

A little while back I asked about BOSS for horses and poultry and had responses concerned with the treatment of the seeds during harvest and additives that made them unsuitable for long-term, mass ingestion. I did not follow-up on these claims, but they were made by people that said they worked in the industry... ?

Diane, I like your idea about the oil. I just bought BOSS for the first time a couple of days ago. The next morning it was FULL of ants. Did not know I would have to store it up off the floor.

Vegetable oil will work just as well, cheaper, if coat shine and skin condition are what you are after. Chhose the cheapest one. Cottonseed oil is cheap here.

talking about the oil... do you all mean the oil that I can just go into the grocery store and buy in a bottle? Or is it a special type of oil just for feeding live stock with?

Yep, the veggie oil you can get in the store will work. If you get it at Sam's or Wally World in the bulk section, you can buy it cheaper. Feed mills put oil like that in feed all the time. If you want to be swanky, get sunflower oil...but it's higher...

Read the ingredients in this example...

EXHIBIT A:

http://www.motesclearcreekfarms.com/...COOP-93461.asp

All you are doing is adding oil to the diet so that it is exuded onto the skin, which is the same thing it does with oilseed. That makes the hair shinier and helps with dandruff. Adding a little veggie oil also helps keep foaming down and prevent bloat. It doesn't take much, but everyone seems to have their own "secret amount." Like with any goat feed thing, start small and go up very gradually til you get shiny coats.

Is that the only reason for the oil?

Is there any dietary reason for it? Or can you just feed oats, corn, barley, alfalfa pellets, and hay?

Oh, and maybe a dumb question....but does it affect their poop at all? I have a doe who will have clumpy poop at the drop of a hat for some reason.

Dee

I grew some this year. They aren't too hard to grow. Now harvest I don't know... I harvested the heads, wondering if there is any easy way to get the seeds seperated lol. But they are simple to grow and VERY pretty when they bloom. I will grow more next year. I was experimenting, because I read about the junk they use on them (which they use junk on all the stuff...).

And no, of course oil is not going to have the same nutrients in BOSS. It will have the fat only. Not the protein, fiber, vitamins and minerals, as mentioned above. I don't think BOSS is a requirement, but it's good to use, and nice to add to the diet. More variety in the diet is always good. More chance to pick up different nutrients.

IMHO, no dietary reason at all, though some say it helps with joints. My goats get grass and browse 8 months a year -- and that's it. In winter, they get browse, grass, hay and a little bit of whole cottonseed (27% protein). They get as much cottonseed as they can eat in 10 minutes, once a day. I am a firm believer in mimicking what nature would offer them to promote optimal health and control costs.

The veggie oil does help with coat, skin, and overall condition. Yes, if you go hog wild on it, it could affect their poop, like anything else. Like I say, it's in most bagged feeds, one way or another. Many here, myself included, do not feed prepared or bagged feeds as being too expensive. Those folks might want to try a half-teaspoon per "serving" of veggie oil mixed well with the feed and see if they like the results.

I mention the oil cuz it is a far cheaper way to get the bennies of black oil sunflower seed, is all. Otherwise, the BOSS has the same stuff you are feeding them with other feedstuffs. If you have acorns or other mast in your browse, they are filling that fat role at no cost to you.

It depends on what your goals are. Pet goats or a small milker herd that's a hobby for your own family can be much more lax on feed costs than a farmer can.

I also grew sunflowers for the goats. I harvested the whole heads and froze them stacked and whole. I had chest freezers to hold the 3 gallon buckets of milk frozen for my milk contract that weren't used during the winter. I would take a few out each day, defrost them and simply crumble them in the feeders, not actually picking out the seeds, the girls loved them. Those not in the humid south could cut them with some stalk and hang them in the rafters...here they molded.

I will always buy BOSS to feed to my kids I am keeping, the scartch factor of the seeds is well known for keeping entero at bay and since my kids are pushed for growth, it's important for my herd.

My sales are alot about PR here with the ah-la-natural group. Things that are cheaper here, cottonseed meal and hulls, some even soy....dictate what you can and you can't put into your goats for more milk or meat. I choose not to sell my milk to a third party who then resells it or makes it into cheese, and in doing this, dealing with the public myself, you have to eaisly answer nutrition and health related questions....and since I know myself the pesticide issues of cottonseed I can't feed it or use the oil. I do use Sunflower Oil because it is the main ingredient in my soap and I purchase it in bulk in 33 gallon barrels. But the cheap soybean oil (most 100% veggy oil labels are soybean oil) is a great alternative.

Obviously in pet or meat goat herds, fat feeding isn't really an issue, we shave our does down, without fat in the diet they have no slick to their skin, I also only feed oats on the milkstand to my milkers, so adding the oil or Boss (which I interchange all the time) is an added fat they need. Vicki

There are other things in BOSS that make them a good supplement. A wide variety of minerals in a good proportion, the fiber, as Vicki mentioned, is very good for them, also, some protein. You only need a little. Porcessed veggie oils are bad for everyone's health---people included. But I realize most people will not do the research on that.

Here's a link I love for getting nutritional analysis on different foods:


http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20ne.html

They are high in Vitamin E and selenium---a good combo---and other minerals.

Plus, the girls like them...it is so funny to see their lips searching out their favorite bits from the grain. I will usually end up with just the alfalfa pellets left in the grain bowl on the stand. At this point, spolied brat does flip the bowl off the stand. I've learned to feed the alfalfa pellets before milking now.

Jill.

I did that until I noticed that there were additional vitamins and stuff added.

We use the corn oil like for cooking on the horses should work on the goats too. Doesn't take much