would someone mind answering MY question?

crafty2002 · #41 09/23/07, 02:54 AM

I don't know anything at all about goats, but have one question that may help. Could the Goat be alergic to the DE, whatever that is.

I gave my dog some shots the vet gave me and nearly killed him. He is still under weight and just isn't himself.
I am hoping to have a couple goats in a couple of years and trying to learn ahead of time so I am just wondering if this could possibly be the cause for the problem.
Dennis

DixyDoodle · #42 09/23/07, 03:53 AM

trnubian, with the dairy cattle feed, do you mean feed that INSTEAD of my pre-mixed goat feed or use as a supplement? In that case, what if anything would you add to the cattle feed to make it good for goats? Keeping in mind that at this time it would be for bucks and non-lactating/young does. Only two of my does will be bred late this fall.

Thanks again!

pookshollow · #43 09/23/07, 08:19 AM

I think she meant to feed the dairy ration instead of your pre-mixed ration - but you might want to check your costs, see which one is cheaper.

I feed a 16% dairy ration from my local feed mill. I did ask if there was any urea, and they assured me that there was not, that a lot of local goat farmers used it. I wouldn't even bother asking them at TSC - not too impressed with them! As for the Sweet Goats feed - anything that says it is suitable for all stages of life - well! One size does not fit all!

If you can't find dairy ration without urea, you could go to a horse feed. The mineral balance would be fine for goats. Unfortunately, horse feed tends to be a little pricier (and taxable) as it is considered a "luxury" item.

Are you feeding grass or alfalfa hay? Grass hay is fine for the dry does and the bucks, but once you're milking, your doe will do better with alfalfa - or you'll need to up the protein in her grain mix.

trnubian · #44 09/24/07, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixyDoodle

trnubian, with the dairy cattle feed, do you mean feed that INSTEAD of my pre-mixed goat feed or use as a supplement? In that case, what if anything would you add to the cattle feed to make it good for goats? Keeping in mind that at this time it would be for bucks and non-lactating/young does. Only two of my does will be bred late this fall.

Thanks again!

That really depends on the dairy ration you have. The Dairy pellet/beef that I am talking about would be an extremely high protein pellet - used to boost the protein of feed mixes that contain only grains and or grains and alfalfa pellets. (The pellet I use is 38% protein). I add that to corn, oats, BOSS, and Beet Pulp to make my ration. I can adjust the ammount of the Dairy Pellet (and the other ingredients) to formulate a specific protein and fat percentage. Righ now I am using a 17.8% protein 4% fat feed as I am feeding mostly grass hay at this time of the year.

If you can find a dairy feed that is about 16-20% protein I would stick with just that. You would save alot of work not having to mix your own.

I can't find a pre-mixed feed around here that isn't already medicated so I have to mix my own feed and use the dairy pellet as a protein booster. (Although there are other benefits to using it such as added selenium, Vit. A,D & E...)

If you are feeding a quality alfalfa hay your dry stock (including bucks) should need very little if any grain supplementation. UNLESS they are still growing fairly rapidly. (I am still feeding grain to a 7 month old and a 5 month old.) Just watch their weight.

If you are feeding a grass hay I would definately be feeding grain. (Preferably with some alfalfa pellets in it to boost calcium intake.) A 16-20% would be fine for the dry stock on grass hay. I am feeding a 17.8% with my grass hay. Again, judge by how they are doing condition wise as to how much they get.

lonelyfarmgirl · #45 09/28/07, 11:35 AM

laura, is the 16% protien what a lactating goat should be having?
since I got mine off the prepackaged food, I dont know what the percentages are.
It is 3 parts alfalfa pellets, 2 parts oats, one part corn, 1/5th part BOSS.
plus the minerals you told me to get. They eat as much as they want twice a day. I cant leave it out for them unsupervised.
Is there something else I sould add to this feed?

The skinny doe, starsong, is almost dried off, but hasent gained any weight. her hair is getting long though.

also, someone on here keeps saying more alfalfa = more milk. I have tripled the alfalfa they were getting before, yet milk amounts remain the same. why?
thanks

dkdairygoats · #46 09/28/07, 12:35 PM

You may want to consider testing the thin doe for Johne's disease, especially if you have dewormed her and that didn't help. Johne's disease causes unexplained weight loss in goats. Most likely they don't get diarrhea like cows do, so it can go undiagnosed for years. This is not something that most goat people are very aware of in my experience but I test my entire herd yearly and I had one yearling test positive a few years ago.

lonelyfarmgirl · #47 10/01/07, 05:04 PM

I will try that. Ive never heard of it. If she is positive, then what? euthanasia? what about the rest of my herd. Contagious? cure?
thanks

Terre d'Esprit · #48 10/01/07, 08:19 PM

I read that you were using ivermectin. You need to be using the injectible cattle ivermectin (but giving it orally). Check Fias Co Farm's website, which was given earlier in the thread. Oral ivermectin, like what you use for horses, is too low a dose.

Also, I have a Saanen FF who kidded in February. She is still giving us 4-5 pounds a day. At her highest, she was over 8 pounds a day. I have used mixed feed, even using Langston University's feed calculator, but her production and condition is best when we feed Kent Feed's Goat Milker pellets. And she loves them.

You are getting a hundred different answers and perspectives on this thread. I second the recommendation that you consult a great book (one is called Managing Your Ewe and her Lambs, yes, for sheep, but much is applicable for goats), and please, above all, consult your vet. Take a fecal sample into your vet to see what you've got going on for worms. Your vet will know where you can get feed in your area.

Best of luck,

T

creamcup mini's · #49 10/02/07, 11:49 AM

Just read this thread and wanted to add something I did not see addressed. Your doeling is nearly 4 months old, right? She is absolutely old enough to be weaned. Wean her and then maybe dry up her mother. When you separate the kid you might be surprised at how much milk the mom is giving. A 3-4 month old kid can consume a LOT of milk! Gallons! And if the mom is not actually producing much, then the kid isn't getting much anyway, and you should dry up Mom and let her get healthy again, before she is rebred. I agree that my first thought was also worms. DE can act as a deterrent to worms, but will not eradicate them. You can use horse ivermectin if you dose it at 2-3X the goat's weight, but 1% Ivomec is easier and cheaper, in the long run. Do the kid, too.

Also, it can take several weeks/months for a severely depleted animal to regain condition, though I would expect to see the beginnings of a better hair coat start to appear in a few weeks. Good Luck.

lonelyfarmgirl · #50 10/05/07, 12:03 PM

the one with the baby is not the problem doe, for those confused.
I had not weaned the baby before because I did not have 2 seperate areas.

she is being weaned this week, and mom is giving 2 1/2 pounds a milking. this is her second time.

the problem doe was in milk when I got her. she is being dried off right now. I have wormed her with several different things.

based on my experience with dogs, her symptoms kind of reminded me of whipworms, so I also wormed with safegaurd, but no change.
When I wormed a dog that had whip worms, improvemnet was apparent in a matter of days.

I am going to contact a vet about testing for johne's next week.

Sondra Peterson · #51 10/05/07, 05:11 PM

Quote:

I use DE religiously and so did the lady before. If there is a parisite that DE wont kill, I am not aware of it. Is there? and what would I use to take care of it?

Ok tho I don't post very much here I do have to address this. DE is a wonderful product that I use all the time in many different ways and would never be without. Also I add it to my feed. BUT and this is a tried and true answer that I am giving you.
If a goat has a heavy worm load DE will not kill all the worms and will not kill eggs DE is only a preventative which helps with worms but it is not and never has been proven as a worm killer. THUS you do have to do fecals regurlarly and see if you are getting rid of the worms. DE will do absolutly nothing for cocci. I am totally natural here on my farm NOT organic but do everything as natural as possible. Using herbs, vitamins, mix my own grain and have exceptionally good results doing that. BUT I use chemicle wormers plus my DE and I worm when needed ONLY, therefore in order to do that you have to do FECAL testing either by your vet or learn to do it yourself. My guess is this skinny doe is full of worms and you will find this out by doing a fecal. Another thought is Johnnes which is a wasting away disease. so testing for this would be also on my book of things to check for. below is good info on Johnnes
http://ohioline.osu.edu/vme-fact/0003.html

trnubian · #52 10/05/07, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

laura, is the 16% protien what a lactating goat should be having?
since I got mine off the prepackaged food, I dont know what the percentages are.
It is 3 parts alfalfa pellets, 2 parts oats, one part corn, 1/5th part BOSS.
plus the minerals you told me to get. They eat as much as they want twice a day. I cant leave it out for them unsupervised.
Is there something else I sould add to this feed?

The skinny doe, starsong, is almost dried off, but hasent gained any weight. her hair is getting long though.

also, someone on here keeps saying more alfalfa = more milk. I have tripled the alfalfa they were getting before, yet milk amounts remain the same. why?
thanks

Sorry I haven't had time to be on here much lately.

If the doe is getting plenty of alfalfa hay or pellets (say 4 lb. a day per animal) then yes 16% protein would be fine. However, if she is not getting that much aflafla she needs about 18% protein.

The grain mix you are using now is not going to be enough protein. You need a high protein pellet such as calf manna or a dairy cattle or beef cattle pellet (make sure they contain NO urea). You can add those pellets to the feed to up the protein. I highly suggest ProVider 38 KENT dairy Pellet. That is what I use and it works very well.

Also you need to make sure you have enough fat in the diet. BOSS is great in measured quantities. i see you use that too. If you would like me to help you formulate a simple feed ration let me know. Again I suggest finding a bag of ProVider 38 around you somewhere.

I would DEFINATELY have your doe tested for jhones. Sounds like that is a possibility. If you have wormed with Ivermectin (orally 1 cc per 100 lb.) and safe-guard 5-6 x the horse dose) then she should be sufficiently wormed. I would have a fecal done on her to be sure so that you can rule out worms as a problem. Also have them check for coccidia.

It may just take awhile for that doe to come around. She has been stressed from the move, new environment, new feed, being wormed... You may just need to give her time if you come to find that all the problems are ruled out (jhones, worms, coccidia...) Good quality feed and TLC works wonders.

It may take a good year to get her back up to par. Drying her off it a GOOD thing to do.

It will take awhile for the mineral to start "showing." (2 months or more.) The mineral deficiancies have to be met and fulfilled and then you should start seeing improvements.

Another thing you may want to go is get some probias into her. All that worming likley took all the good stuff out of her and the flora need to be replenshied. A good dose of Probias or active cultured yogurt would not hurt at all.

Good luck wit her and keep us posted!

Sondra Peterson · #53 10/05/07, 10:06 PM

Another thing A doe in milk will not and I repeat will not put back on alot of weight no matter what. you put weight on during the dry period. BUT you have to get some fecals done to see what is going on here I use cydectin and ivormec plus using the cydectin 3 times 10 days apart and ivormec plus only one time the first time. Get rid of all those worms and then start a preventive program.