O.K....how bout making money with dairy goats?

Allan Mistler · #41 08/28/07, 07:35 AM

About ten years ago when we raised dairy goats (Nubians) rather than the Boer's we now raise, our goat herd paid for, not only themselves, but the rest of the menagerie.
We typically milked a dozen and seperated the milk. The skim milk as well as some whole milk was sold off the farm... the cream was made into cheese and then cheese cakes which were sold off the farm in addition to a contract sale we maintained with several restaraunts who purchased several each day. The buck kids were sold to a local ethnic butcher each spring for $50 a head and we sold doelings at $150 to interested parties. Believe it or not, we even managed to sell their manure.
Anyway, all of this was in combination with egg and meat sales from our other livestock, so we were a diversified farm. Since we kept accurate records for tax purposes, we can honestly say that our goats paid the grain costs for themselves, cows, pigs and turkeys as well as keeping us in fresh chevon and milk. That's all I could ask of any animal!

flannelberry · #42 08/28/07, 08:44 AM

We got out of goats because here it's illegal to even give milk if it hasn't been milked in a commercial style parlour. A lot of people are milking or doing cheese (but not milking) because the requirements are so stringent and expensive - even just to sell for farmer's markets. There is a woman here who does "goats milk soap". She has alpines but doesn't actually milk them - although actually I think she could be guilty of severely misrepresenting her product with what she implies.

I find it frustrating because way back when I first had goats, the dairy board was going through some big changes and wanted exclusivity - that is, they didn't want any milk but cow's milk to be "dairy". Worked well for those of us with small operations and goats! And then someone clued in that we'll be making a lot more $$$ because we don't have to invest as much etc and the powers that be were worried about the cottage industry as competition. So, they included all milky mammals in "dairy" and now you have no real cottage cheese (excuse the pun!) or dairy industry anymore.

I know a couple of people who do sell milk etc under the table. They trade really but that's still illegal and it's scary, you could lose everything doing that.

I'm generally a bit in favour of regulating some things; there are safety reasons, I get it. But this is another one of the "gone way too far" things and has become about market share - not safety. I worry that eggs will go the same way as well.

Anyway, that's the long story of how I left goats for sheep (but I still would love to have goats and so come here all of the time!).

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #43 08/28/07, 02:23 PM

If you are only keeping a buck to freshen your does, to perhaps keep a daughter or two, and selling the rest, than pedigree means nothing, he simply has to do his job...and keeping your own young buck to breed, even with the cost of raising him is less than purchase, or lease, when you bring your herd health into it.

Now if you are breeding goats along with selling or wanting house milk than of course you don't want to just use a buck out of a FF on your herd.

If you are selling registered breeding stock than the buck you have becomes all that much more important.

It's hard to answer questions on this forum because I show, sell milk, use my milk in soap and I sell breeding stock. Then my posts become fodder for the meat goat guys and fluff, and how awful everything is.

It's your herd, if you really need to cut costs than purchasing sacked feeds is never going to cut your costs. Sure it's grain, but what part of the grain, certainly not good clean oats that you can purchase yourself, and the pellet.....if you are feeding a good mineral than why do you need a mineral, soy etc...pellet in your grain? And why do you need to add the most expensive form of fat to your goats diet for house milk? Use soybean or even corn oil. If you can afford $17 per 50 for fat than go for it. You can do the exact same thing for $3 per month.

Dairy goats need calcium, because of mineral defficencies giving them calcium in only the forum of minerals simply gives you emaciated goats. It's the reason why folks pour grain into too skinny of does nursing two kids...without alfalfa in the form of hay or pellets, they simply don't build enough bone as a kid, or enough substance as an adult. Give less alfalfa hay and they will eat more alfalfa pellets because they are the same thing

I wish everyone on the board with dairy goats would for one month keep track of costs, now that you are at the end of the month, how much did your program cost you, now pretend that your goats have to pay this bill, not your spouse or you working off the farm. There is nothing more fulfilling than a stay at home mom, who not only supplies milk and meat for her families table, but also does it with sales of her own breeding stock and milk/soap/meat. You can't take advice from gals whose husbands pay the bills for their hobby seriously if you do want to make a profit.

If you do this right the sales of your kids should way beyond pay for the upkeep of your goats each year, so your milk/meat and anything else you do will actually be profit. Vicki

susanne · #44 08/28/07, 03:03 PM

most folks forget to put the money away they would need to buy meat or milk in the store if they would not have the animals.
feed cost is rising and so is milk in the store. ever thought about the cost of medical bills you are saving because of healthier life style?
if some one got into goats with the goal to get rich, got in for the wrong reason.
if they are managed right they will always pay for them self and the health of you and your family.
to operate a dairy needs a lot of optimism, enough money to start (which most people don't have) and patience.

MamaDee · #45 08/28/07, 09:54 PM

I use mixed alfalfa/grass hay free choice, alfalfa pellets (not free choice, but working toward it), and a goat specific free choice mineral (Purina, I think--the only one available here that has copper). So can I substitute just plain oats for bagged grain on the milkstand? Right now I'm using Purina Goat chow--I know it's not the best but it's better than the alternative Sweet Feed we can get around here. Is just plain oats on the milk stand better than that?

Dee

susanne · #46 08/28/07, 11:18 PM

in my opinion plain oats would be much better. have you looked at the feed tag from the goat chow? if not, here it is

INGREDIENTS:
Grain products, processed grain by-products, plant protein products, molasses products, calcium carbonate, roughage products, salt, forage products, dicalcium phosphate, soybean oil, phosphoric acid, sodium selenite, attapulgite clay, proprionic acid (a preservative), vitamin E supplement, tetrasodium pyrophosphate, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, sodium molybdate, cobalt carbonate, manganese sulfate, ferrous sulfate, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc oxide, zinc sulfate, magnesium oxide, manganous oxide.

i do not want sweet feed, or even worse, processed grain by-products.
with oats you know exactly what you are feeding them and if feeding alfa they really don't need more.

steff bugielski · #47 08/29/07, 04:37 AM

Ok one more question...
I have checked into the plain grains. I can get plain oats, steamed flaked barley and cracked corn. The cost is about the same as the Caprine challenger. I am also on the hunt for loose minerals. Now what I am at a loss for is the ratio of these grains and tell me about fat. Thay will also get grass hay free choice and alfalfa pellets.
Sorry two questions. Kids , do they get just calf manna and alflfa pellets no grains?
Thanks so much I am planning the switch just as soon as the feed store gets the minerals in.

susanne · #48 08/29/07, 08:15 AM

steff here at my place the kids are getting first and most goatmilk as long as they want, which is mostly six month. there is all the fat,calcium and protein they need. they have grass hay all the time (phosphor) alfa pellets topped with BOSS and calfmanna. i'm sure they would do as good without the last two things, as long as they get milk.
i don't need the milk for sale, and dairies might need to do different in order to grow kids out.
dry COB can be fed in the ratio 1-2-1. i don't feed corn and my girls are looking pretty good without it

stanb999 · #49 08/29/07, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

In my opinion, making money on milk goats is about the same way you make money on meat goats. With as little input for the most output that you can. By this I don't mean starving or neglecting their care. I mean letting them be goats by not pampering them too much.
Keep their diets simple. As much browsing as possible. Dairy goats browse very well, its not a meat goat *thing*.
Breed for healthy hardy goats so that you don't spend a fortune on medications.
Feed a good mineral.
Always breed for improvement in milk and conformation but not at the expense of the hardiness of the individual.
Address dairy goat needs by giving them adequate calcium in their diet.
Sell kids you do not plan to keep as early as possible. The less money you have in them, the more profit you make. I can sell a three day old Nubian kid for $150-$200, or I can wait and sell the same kid at three months old for about the same price, but my profit margin by then is *considerably* slimmer.
Do give Bo-Se if needed. It will improve the health and productivity of your goats. It will also improve conception rates. More kids=more money. And for the price....its a pittance for the improvements it makes.
And eat those milk fed dairy wethers at about 2-3 months of age!! They make healthy, tasty meat that feeds your family. Unless you just have an outstanding wether market, they are much more of an asset in the freezer than on the hoof! Do the butchering yourself, because if you pay to have it done, you just lost a lot of money.
Be tough and cull hard.

I have but one thing to say. You sound like me!!!!!! LOL.
What Happened?

The best feed for goats is Browse; Period. If you have limited land then you will have to buy feed(loose money). I'd suggest looking around for "cheep" grass or weedy grass hay. This is some times sold as "Mulch Hay" or Landscape hay. First thing is make sure it's fresh and green. If it's not don't take it if it's free.
Feed the hay free choice. This means as much as will be consumed. You want the feeder empty each day but just. Now for grain you can get fitting ration. You will find it much cheaper than goat feeds but is really the same. You should only give this when they are about to or just have given birth. It will help them come into milk. Once the goat is back in shape (1-2 weeks) revert to hay only. With this you should feed 1 goat about 1 50 pound bale a week And 15 lbs of fitting ration a year. This should give you about 2 kids and 150 gallons of milk.
So the feed requirements would be
52 bales and 15 pounds of feed. Pretty cheap.

P.S.
Buying bagged goat feed is for rubes that have too much money. Goats should be the cheapest animals going.

stanb999 · #50 08/29/07, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

I wish everyone on the board with dairy goats would for one month keep track of costs, now that you are at the end of the month, how much did your program cost you, now pretend that your goats have to pay this bill, not your spouse or you working off the farm. There is nothing more fulfilling than a stay at home mom, who not only supplies milk and meat for her families table, but also does it with sales of her own breeding stock and milk/soap/meat. You can't take advice from gals whose husbands pay the bills for their hobby seriously if you do want to make a profit.

Vicki

Well let me see.......... About 1.00. I used about 2 pounds of corn to move the herd from one pasture to another. They will follow me across the road if I have corn.

southerngurl · #51 08/29/07, 11:23 AM

Mine probably cost me 10 or 12 dollars this month in food.

susanne · #52 08/29/07, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanb999

I used about 2 pounds of corn to move the herd from one pasture to another. They will follow me across the road if I have corn.

if you have a bag full of candy, children will follow you too.
the question remains, is it really healthy for them?

a doe on my place cost about $40 per month or $480 per year. i do get on average about 26 gallon milk per month. if i would sell the milk and be tame with my price, and calculate only $8 per gallon (at whole foods or busch $16), it would give me $208 or $2496 per year in return for milk.
i get on average two kids that are selling low price $300. add that to the income from the milk i'm at $3720.
don't make me calculate my salary though

even if you only take $4 per gallon, the price that you pay for dead grocery store milk, you still will have your return.
in the calculation is not the meat price, goat meat here sells at $6.50 per pound.
if you ask me if it is worth to keep dairy goats, i will always answer with yes. will i get rich? of course not, but very happy and satisfied

MamaDee · #53 08/29/07, 12:21 PM

with oats you know exactly what you are feeding them and if feeding alfa they really don't need more.>>>>

That's good to know....I remember researching this whole issue when we were deciding which grain to use--or if to formulate our own. As I remember it seemed a very complicated prospect to do your own mix. I looked up some past threads last night and came away with the same impression. If all goats need for grain is oats then why the complicated formulas and ratios about all the other things to add together in what amounts?

Do goats only really need oats, alfalfa and a mineral? Speaking of minerals does anyone know if Purina's goat mineral is o.k. It's the only one around here with copper.

Dee

stanb999 · #54 08/29/07, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

if you have a bag full of candy, children will follow you too.
the question remains, is it really healthy for them?

Well I figure it doesn't matter as it's the only thing they have had besides browse since mid-MAY when the pasture came in. That was 2 pounds for 8 goats. Not 2 pounds each.

susanne · #55 08/29/07, 12:59 PM

If all goats need for grain is oats then why the complicated formulas and ratios about all the other things to add together in what amounts?

because it sells so good

Do goats only really need oats, alfalfa and a mineral?

yes

look at the tag, what is in there? if you only see the purina in your feed store does not mean they could order something else?

here is a good site where you can compare different mineral salts.
http://www.saanendoah.com/mineralanalysis.html#swetlick
scroll down to the bottom of the page.

i think purina is a little bit expensive with 45% salt

ozark_jewels · #56 08/30/07, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanb999

I have but one thing to say. You sound like me!!!!!! LOL.
What Happened?

Hey Stan......I've always thought and said like that.....but I still disbudd and I still feed grain when I need to.......so we still have something to argue about.

ozark_jewels · #57 08/30/07, 09:31 AM

Do goats only really need oats, alfalfa and a mineral?

Yep! Or in my case, Barley, Alfalfa and mineral.

Speaking of minerals does anyone know if Purina's goat mineral is o.k. It's the only one around here with copper.

I used it for two months once, and my goats all went downhill. They didn't like it at all. I never reccomend their goat mineral. Can you find a cattle mineral with a good amount of copper?? I am using Right Now Onyx Cattle mineral and like it very much. It has done much better things for my herd than many goat minerals...including Sweetlix.

MamaDee · #58 08/30/07, 12:55 PM

Can you find a cattle mineral with a good amount of copper?? >>>

Well, I certainly believe you guys but it is weird. Why would a cattle mineral be better for a goat than a goat mineral? Why wouldn't Purina (made in St Louis--probably why its the goat mineral around these parts) make a goat mineral good for goats? I don't get it.

And I also believe that goats could do just as well on oats or barley for a grain as opposed to a pre-bagged grain. The thing is, we don't go through that much grain. The dry does and bucks don't need it and the babies don't get much and only from around 3 weeks old until weaning. The milkers are the only ones who really get grain and we don't have a ton of milkers. So I could switch to oats but it wouldn't save me that much. It's the alfalfa where we spend our money. I don't see a way to cut costs there. Alfalfa hay is more than grass hay and bagged alfalfa is more than bagged grain anyway. And.....the goats go through way more bagged alfalfa pellets than bags of grain. Does everybody need alfalfa or just the milkers?

Dee

Patty0315 · #59 08/30/07, 01:11 PM

My goats just do not like alfalfa pellets . Plain and simple. They do get second cut hay with lots of clover in it. I still have a few bags of alfalfa pellets left from the ton I bought.

ozark_jewels · #60 08/30/07, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MamaDee

Well, I certainly believe you guys but it is weird. Why would a cattle mineral be better for a goat than a goat mineral? Why wouldn't Purina (made in St Louis--probably why its the goat mineral around these parts) make a goat mineral good for goats? I don't get it.

I have never found a Purina goat product that I liked. Not to mention its all overpriced(because its a big name, I guess).
There hasn't really been that much research done on goats and they are still very much a sideline *if* big companies even consider them at all. People are just now starting to get it, that copper is SO important for optimum production and health in goats. For many years most people thought they were like sheep and shouldn't get extra copper at all. I still have people tell me like its a fact that I will kill my goats feeding them a high copper mineral like I do. Well, they ain't dead.

Cattle have been BIG for decades. Much research has been done on them and their mineral needs. (Most)Cattle people understand about good minerals giving them better healthier calves in a timelier fashion. Goat people are just trying to catch up. So there are many cattle minerals out there that meet goat needs much better than many goat minerals.
Purina goat mineral is extremely high salt......which means they don't get enough of the minerals they need. Not to mention its *expensive* salt!