O.K....how bout making money with dairy goats?

lonelyfarmgirl · #21 08/22/07, 01:27 PM

is there anyone who does not feed their milkers grain at all? I do, just wondering.

MamaDee · #22 08/22/07, 10:54 PM

Ah, yes...the land. Well, we have 10 acres all together--but that includes our house, some grass/weed pasture, some woods. The barn is connected to a pasture of sorts for the goats that is fenced. Small. We would love to let the goats have free access to our land. The problem is fencing. We just cannot afford to fence that much land right now. It's in the plan, of course. But we're not talking a small amount of money, here. Plus, it depends on what you want to fence. We have a few acres of that grass/weed pasture that would be easier to fence with the electric semi-permanent fence we use right now. Still not cheap. But cheaper than trying to include the woods, which would have more brush, etc.

For those of you who have a fair amount of land fenced to let the goats roam......what kind of fencing do you have?

Probably what we'll do is use more of the electric fencing that we already use and just fence more of what they already have. Then rotate--since this fence you can move. I really wish we could use it around brush and trees, though.

What do you all do?

Dee

mamajohnson · #23 08/23/07, 02:17 PM

rotation would be a good idea. We have woods fenced, about 2 acres, with 6 goats on it. Since it used to be a horse pen, it is just that roll field fence that is about 4' high, with a strand of electric on top. Goats have never gotten out, the dogs however are a different story. Dh thinks we could let the goats out on the weekend when we are working outside and they would basically stay with us, cause they follow us around the pen while we are working out there. I might get brave and let him try it. We have tons of woods to browse, and I dont think they would be able to wonder off our land if we were watching them.
Fence is expensive. The rolls are abou 75 dollars and up. We put it up one roll at a time.

ozark_jewels · #24 08/24/07, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MamaDee

For those of you who have a fair amount of land fenced to let the goats roam......what kind of fencing do you have?

Electric. Its the only way I could afford to fence in 70 acres. Also, I can put electric up all by me lonesome. I can't do that with any other fencing. The goats and dogs stay in and the goats have plenty of browse(when we get rain!

)

mamajohnson · #25 08/24/07, 02:48 PM

Emily,
do you keep pyrs in with electric? I can't seem to keep mine in anything!

ozark_jewels · #26 08/25/07, 09:34 AM

Yes, actually they do. But some of that depends on the dogs. Some are worse about wanting to patrol their *entire* patch rather than the patch they are *supposed* to patrol. My neutered male LGD wants to walk the perimeter fence twice a day then go back in with his herd. He wants to so bad that I leave him a hole he can go through. He is scared of electric and will not challenge it.
My intact breeding/working pair of Pyrs are totally content to stay behind the hotwire and they will only step out of it if I leave a gate open. And then only to sniff around then go back inside.
When my pups are young, they walk right under the fence without touching. By the time they are about 6 weeks old, they get their first taste of the shock and from then on they stay on the inside religiously!

mamajohnson · #27 08/25/07, 10:58 AM

That is probably what I have done wrong then!
Didn't get it hot till they are all grown (almost) I have one that is about 6 mo old, he was content to stay at least around the house, till mom got bored, jumped the fence and commensed her roaming. She will go miles and miles away. Dont know why she does this. I know there is a pond she likes to go cool in, but she seems to see the neighboring ranch as hers, will roam all over it, the tree farm nextdoor, our property, and several other joining places. We are lucky that not many people are out here, only 5 houses within about 5 mile radius.
Guess I can pump up the power and see if they will pay attention. I dont like them tied, sorta defeats their purpose, but at the same time I prefer they stay on OUR land! pyrs, gotta love em!

Patty0315 · #28 08/25/07, 11:39 AM

How far of spacing are you using with the electric fence ?

Thanks , Patty

Spinner · #29 08/25/07, 12:07 PM

I only feed my milker when she's on the milk stand, the others browse. I have 10 acres and 11 goats. It doesn't cost much to keep them. I have made a deal with a neighbor to supply me hay in exchange for me letting his cows graze my pasture. It works out well cause my goats get to eat over on his 40 acres in addition to my 10 acres. The cows and goats don't compete as they eat differently. I haven't had them thru the winter yet so it might get expensive then.

I have several people who have ask to buy milk, but I need to take her to the vet and get her tested before I start selling it. I haven't made cheese yet, but hope to start soon. Hopefully I can sell milk and cheese to pay the feed bill over the winter.

I get a lot more milk than we use. Right now I have several gallons frozen for when she dries up. I also hope to get a bottle calf and raise it on goat milk.

Overall, I feel like the goats have not been a financial drain, but I haven't seen a profit from them either.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #30 08/25/07, 05:03 PM

Now, we just had our first year in goats so we had alot of initial expenses. We now have nine goats--four are milking.
......................

Your aren't being fair to your milkers, when you have the cost of these other unproductive goats on their backs. When I visit most farms it's simple to see waste...pens full of wethers unbutchered...like rabbitts the minute you put in a feed pen to grain feed them, is the day you should get our of rabbitts, if you can't wean them and butcher them the same day, there is something wrong with the mangement of your doe...same with goats, weaned kids should be butchered, not grain fed out, they are not beef.

Keeping does dry. A doe should be in milk from 12 months old until she dies at 12 years, minus the 50 days each year she is heavy bred and building up her stores and colostrum for her next kids and lacatation.

Feeding fluff. Grass hay, pasture and browse when you have it, oats on the milkstand, minerals and enough alfalfa pellets to keep them in good shape and for their calcium and protein needs. Water, clean water, you have no idea how much this is overlooked. If you are lucky enough to live up north and have alfalfa hay, go for it!

If you aren't breeding goats than keep a young buck to breed the herd, it is certainly cheaper than keeping adult bucks. Use them and butcher them when the does are bred, purchasing or keeping bucklings out of your own herd the next spring to use the next fall.

Anything other than that is fluff, wasteful and costing you money. Not that it is bad, but don't complain about costs and then add expensive fat (BOSS) or energy (beet pulp) or carbs (sacked feeds) to an already excellent diet. Don't keep does who will not milk well for the 10 months they should be in milk, who don't give you saleable kids each year, who you can't breed at 7 or 8 months and who milk well at 12 to 13 months. Slow maturing lines cost you more than faster maturing lines, and honestly I think most of it is nutrition.

If you aren't going to sell registered goats, you simply have to watch your bottom line alot closer...you have to breed the does for milk, nothing more, not for improvement. It's the one time genetic diversity will come into play alot more, outcrossing each year to another breed, finding a niche of selling excellent milkers for the homestead. Learn to soap and make cheese to add to your sales. Vicki

dezeeuwgoats · #31 08/25/07, 05:25 PM

Vicki;

Do you feed simply oats on the milk stand - in other words, no special 'dairy goat mixed grains'? Are these rolled oats, or whole?

Do you think that would affect my milk production if I switched? I feed Super Goat, which is a dairy goat grain, along with alfalfa pellets (free choice), browse, and Sweetlix Caprine Magnamilk.

Occasionally, when I've run out of Supergoat and didn't want to run to the feedstore, I will 'make do' with rolled barley corn which is actually for the piggies. It doesn't happen very often though, or consistently. I'd love to be able to switch to oats - I can get those SO much cheaper!

sincerely;
Niki

ozark_jewels · #32 08/26/07, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patty0315

How far of spacing are you using with the electric fence ?

Thanks , Patty

Me?? I usually space the strands about 4"-5" apart for the first training period on goats that aren't used to electric. Then when they are trained and I'm putting up more fence I can get by with 6"-8" between strands. They don't test it once they are trained, dog or goat. The pasture where the puppies are born, the strands are about 6" apart. This is the fencing spacing I generally use.

O.K....how bout making money with dairy goats? - Goats

O.K....how bout making money with dairy goats? - Goats

Keep in mind that this is *very* hot fence. Not your run of the mill farmstore charger.

SherrieC · #33 08/26/07, 08:49 AM

Emily No fair! What brand of charger do you use? voltage?

Patty0315 · #34 08/26/07, 08:54 AM

My fencer is a 10 mile with about 2 miles of fence. Can we all say ouch !

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #35 08/26/07, 01:17 PM

Do you feed simply oats on the milk stand - in other words, no special 'dairy goat mixed grains'? Are these rolled oats, or whole?
.......................................

Whole oats. I used an allgrain for years but with it going up over $10 per 50, no way was I going to use it.

Do you think that would affect my milk production if I switched?
..............................

Not feeding alfalfa is what effects milk production. Grain effects the looks of the animal and her ability to continue milking as much as she did in early lactation, right after the dry period the doe is usually in the best condition she will be in. So what is the oats doing? Adding the energy, carbs and calories she needs to stay in good flesh, a doe not in good flesh will milk less than her counterpart.

I feed Super Goat,
..............................

What is in it? Hopefully grains. So if you are already feeding her alfalfa in the forum of at least 3 pounds of alfalfa pellets each day or the equivalant of alfalfa hay, do you need all the unknown things in the supergoat? Byproducts? Do you think there is really any whole grain in it? And if your mineral is top notch and they are eating it why pay for more minerals in your supergoat? Most folks who rely on the sacked grains, are not feeding alfalfa, problem is goats don't utilize alot of the calcium carbonate and sorbate in those sacked feeds as calcium anyway...feed this and grass hay and it will not only effect milk but also her ability to triplet.

which is a dairy goat grain, along with alfalfa pellets (free choice), browse, and Sweetlix Caprine Magnamilk.
.................

Sounds like the only thing you need to improve is your milkstand grain. Vicki

dezeeuwgoats · #36 08/26/07, 05:24 PM

Interesting........thanks Vicki. I'll have to look into this some more. I'm beginning to dry everyone off in expectation of kidding at the end of October. With seventeen to freshen, I'd like to cut expenses (safely - without negative impact on the girls) in any way possible. The Supergoat grain has whole grains and a pelleted feed in it - you can visually see both in the mix. The price on it has gone up recently - it is now $12.50 a bag - yikes. All the breeders around here seem to think it is one of the better things to feed on the milkstand.

Of course, I'll be culling as well, as nine of those are first fresheners - culling is one of the best ways to improve my bottom line, and my herd's quality. It is just so difficult to do! Being new at this, I'm always afraid I'm going to cull someone who is really good due to misinterpreting immaturity, or my ignorance - so I end up hanging on to goats too long, or God forbid - culling an animal that would have added valuable genetics to my herd. And I tend to have a very good 'eye' for conformation with dogs and horses, but I've not had any 'dairy animal' experience.

I'm not talking bucklings here - I'm talking doelings. I really don't seem to have that problem with bucklings, and am proud to say that all of last years bucklings that didn't make the cut are in the freezer. Not as quickly as I'd like - due to circumstances out of my control. Not in time for my boys (human) not to tame the darn things, despite warnings of their eventual purpose.....A mistake that both husband and I are determined will NOT happen again.

Sincerely;
Niki

MamaDee · #37 08/26/07, 11:12 PM

Your aren't being fair to your milkers, when you have the cost of these other unproductive goats on their backs. When I visit most farms it's simple to see waste..>>>

Oh, good. So, what I hope you're saying is that once we get our act together and get the rest of our girls bred and finally get our program going things will look up money wise. I do realize that we're in a sort of unique situation right now....we bought two does in milk b/c we wanted milk. I knew they would not meet their potential when they moved here. We took that on b/c the milk was important to us. The other dry goats we did not pay for. We got a deal from a friend for four goats...hard to pass up. We knew it would take some time to get them all going. One is bred and the others will be shortly. So, hopefully that will help matters.

I'm curious what you said about bucks. Our FF just had a buck and we are planning on making him a freezer buck before he costs too much to feed and before he needs to be castrated. What about bucks you want to keep to breed and then butcher? If we kept him, we could only breed him to those he isn't relate to, right? With our nine girls, there are only three different lines. So we'd need more than one buck. Eventually, wouldn't you have to get an outside buck or wouldn't everyone be related to everyone somehow?
You could save stud fees if you could use your own stock, but I'm unsure as to how that works.

And I also agree that grain is used sparingly and on the milkstand only. Our biggest expense is alfalfa. And don't you have to have that? If we run out of alfalfa/mix hay, they eat more of the bagged pellets. If we don't give them so much of the pellets they go crazy on the hay. And free choice pellets would cost even more. So you can't really cut there, can you?

Dee

mamajohnson · #38 08/27/07, 02:04 PM

Mamadee, I recently started pondering the buck issue myself. I have 4 girls, 1 buck, 2 wethers. my intention originally was to keep the 4 girls, and doelings and my 1 buck. All else freezer bound.
Now I am thinking, can I really breed dad to daughters? I would only butcher any little bucklings, but what about the little doelings? would they be genetically messed up????
So, guess I am thinking like you. That brought me to consider an unrelated buck, that could be used on the daughters.
But, that is more expense.

I may be wrong, but I never feed my goats alfalfa. They have unlimited browse and grain on the milkstand only. (ok, I cheat sometimes and give them about 1 cup of grain in the evening)
so, if they HAVE to have alfalfa, I'm all goofed up!

lonelyfarmgirl · #39 08/27/07, 07:01 PM

I have big time wonders on the grain issue also. They get grain only when I milk.
I buy 150# of goat feed, which is oats, corn, mineral pellets that have copper and selenium in them, then I buy 25# of BOSS, and 50# of alfalfa pellets, and mix it all together with DE.

I am new to goats, so I feed how the lady I got goats from said to, altered a bit by someones elses experience.

2 of my 4 hate the alfalfa pellets.
so all that costs about 50$. lasts maybe a month. that is 3 does in milk, and a grain theiving 3 month old doe.
how would feeding only oats or alfafla pellets be cheaper? wouldn't they get the same amount, pound wise?

I also wondered this...I read somewhere that millions of people in third world countries live off their milk goats, because they have nothing else.
with the nearest feed store, alfalfa patch, or dollar bill non-existant, or 1000 miles away, how do they function?
surely there are other options?

ozark_jewels · #40 08/27/07, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SherrieC

Emily No fair! What brand of charger do you use? voltage?

I use a Taylor Brute 8 charger. Here are the specifics and where I bought it.

http://www.grasslandsupply.com/products.cfm?prodID=135

I *love* this charger! Oh and the company is great too.