My dogs attacked my goat!
 

Well, something has just happened to us and our animal family that has shaken my beliefs to their core. Those who know me know that I am normally confident and self-assured. Today I am feeling unconfident and unsure. I don’t enjoy the sensation.

Last night my two German Shepherd dogs attacked (and nearly killed) my daughters pet goat, Cupcake. When it initially happened I was so unbelieving that I convinced myself that the goat had fallen down and hurt herself and that the dogs had gotten in on the act. The vet assured me that the dogs had inflicted the goat’s injuries.

The goat was tied on her tether, her two kids never strayed far from mom, and were absolutely no cause for our concern whatsoever. They had water, lots of fresh greens and room to roam. Ruger (our male GS) watched over them night and day, sitting and laying and looking magnificent all day long. He sat tall and alert (as only a German Shepherd can) watching over the kids and their mother. When one of the kids would stray from the stakeout, he would herd them back to their mother. I firmly believed that should a coyote walk out of the bushes that Ruger would give his life defending “his” goats.

Yesterday, Ruger and Sandy (our female GS) nearly killed Cupcake. My daughter went outside in the evening to remove her from her tether and bring her back to her pen when she discovered the dogs circling over her. The two kids had sought safety in their pen. The two dogs had mauled Cupcake.

We rushed Cupcake to the vet (---- the cost) and he tried to convince us to put her down. He stitched her up and gave her a huge dose of antibiotics, but the goat was in dire condition. We brought her home, the vet came by this morning to check and gave her another (bigger) shot of antibiotics, and something for the pain. Cupcake was given a 40% chance at survival, upgraded to 50% when she started to nibble on hay and polished off a little offering of grain.

I have two GS dogs within a heartbeat of receiving a piece of high speed lead. They interact daily with my kids (ages 2-9) and aggressive dogs are not an option on my homestead.

I believe this is my fault. I should have curtailed Ruger’s behavior. I pretty much gave him full authority over the goats, to herd them and care for them, believing I could trust him. I should not have done so. It seems he needed training to teach him what was appropriate and what was not.

Cupcake remains in the garage, plugged into an IV and fighting for her life. The kids are fine (Twinkie and Cookie) and were ready to be weaned anyway. I may or may not post pictures tomorrow. I will not make this mistake again.

Pete

Pete,
You have my deepest sympathy. I know the heartbreak, having just put down one of our dogs for killing fawns. We couldn't trust him if small children came to the farm.

So sorry you both had to deal with this situation!
I love Shepherds to death but after my grandmothers 2 Shepherds attacked my little brother, forcing my mother to throw brother down the stairs and taking on the dogs herself I'll never get a pure one.
My boss just got one and he's an awesome dog but i've told his wife to tell her friends not to ride their horses over their land anymore, it's just too risky IMO.

Pete - I am so sorry. My heart goes out to you and your family at this extremely disturbing time. I've been in a similiar place, when our dog showed food aggression as a six month old (75lb) pup. We found a trainer, did everything we were told and were able to keep him - but lead was the other (very real) option, and the weight of that decision hung over us for the week before we found the trainer, and while we were in the initial training phase - waiting for our dog to show us he could make some 'right' decisions. It is an awful, heavy grief to carry. Even at six months old - our dog had shown such intelligence and was a part of the family.

I don't know a thing about shepherds, so I can't say anything there about guarding ability, or tendencies after an attack like this. My mom has a german-bred GS and he's always been wonderful, but isn't around livestock. He was also formally trained by a sitzund (??sp) trainer.

My thoughts are with your family. I do want to say that I think you are doing the right thing (by your daughter) to do whatever you can to save her goat. The situation is hard enough for the children without them having to wonder about that someday - especially if (God forbid)Cupcake doesn't pull through. You are doing a good job with a really awful situation and I commend you for that.
Niki

Aww, I'm sorry Pete... what a rotten situation. I hope Cupcake pulls through. Poor kid, that had to be awful for her... :Bawling:

I am so sorry for your cupcake. I hope she pulls through.

Personally I dont feel it would be right to do anything drastic with your shepards. They are only doing what comes natural. They are not animal guard dogs.

I have a husky-shepard mix - a shephard coyete mix - pit-lab mix - and 4 other large dogs. They do fine with the goats when I am with them. They act like they are not even there. My goats will put there hair up on there back and butt them. They just walk away. But no way would I ever trust them alone with them.

Have the dogs been raised with your children? We have had alot of shepards. They have been the best dogs with children. Face it. YOu can have a lab- or what ever kind of dog and they could attack your children. No animal is 100% safe.

My parents had chiwawas. They would attack my kids all of the time. My mother in law had poodles. They would attack my kids.

I have grandchildren that love playing with all of my dogs. The only one that is put away when they come is the coyete-mix. I do not trust him. Small children are prey. But I always watch when they are playing with them.

I believe it is the grown ups responsibility to be aware and watch any animal around children.

Sorry for going on and on but I don't think you can put the blame on the dogs. And you can not put it on yourself either. You just trusted them to much.

Just my opinion.

Cupcake will be in my paryers.

Sorry about your goat. If it were me, the dogs would be gone. I shot a Great Dane I had because it attacked a goat. I also shot a GS that killed one of my purebred bucklings this year. I will not keep an animal killer. If they will attack and kill an animal, they might do so to a child & I will not have that here. They don't get a second chance at my house. Not worth it. I loved both of those dogs. They had been fine & then one day just attacked for no reason. Not the kind of dog I wanted to keep around.

OMG I'm soooooo sorry to hear that. I sure hope she's doing ok.

I definately agree with Wendy on the dogs being gone.
Attack once, they'll do it again. JMO. And if they attack a goat, never know when they may take after a child. :(

German Shepherds are a herding breed......not a livestock guardian breed.

Herding instinct is in fact a form of modified prey drive. It's been modified so that the animal will take direction in rounding up and moving animals. Herding breeds left unattended can sometimes not only herd livestock until the livestock drops from exhaustion but can also maul animals.

It's very likely that your daughter's doe may have jumped or run or even hit the end of her tie-out and triggered the attack. The sheperds were obviously quite interested in the goats for an extended period of time before the attack occurred. Although this may have appeared to you like they were protecting the goats they may have instead been keeping an eye out for the babies to be unprotected or for the right trigger to tell them to go for it.

Just because your dogs have done this to livestock does not necessarily mean they will transfer their attacks to people eventually. It DOES mean however that you should keep a close eye on them when around the kids just to be sure and it also means that they are never to be left unattended with livestock.

I have Australian Cattle Dogs.........they are a breed with a very high herding/prey drive and usually have a rough style of herding (they were bred to herd rank cattle in the outback after all). Not all of them, but many of them can not be trusted alone with livestock. Heck, most of them can't even be trusted around cats! Ours have been well socialized, but I would never allow them access to livestock unattended. Even our puppies at 6 weeks old made a break for the buck pen. They were small enough to make it thru the cattle panels and proceeded to herd a 180lb buck around the pen! Cats in our house know that when the dogs are around they are still. If a cat bolts the dogs suddenly change from good buddies to ideas of kitty on the dinner menu. We are here when the dogs are in the house and can call them off, but this is one of the reasons we would never allow the dogs run of the house without us home......I have no doubt we'd eventually come home to a kitty massacre. Even so......our dogs are better about cats than a lot of ACD's I know.

Sorry to hear about your doe.

Aggression in dogs towards other animals does not necessarily translate into aggression towards people. Obviously your dogs can not be left alone unsupervised with any live stock and interactions between them and your children should also be supervised, especially around the youngest.

Of course all dog-child interactions need to be supervised, regardless of the breed or size of dog.

That happened to us. A white German shepherd and a Aussie though. The Aussie got the goat worked up and the Shepherd did the dirty work. We kept her for a few more years, had to put her down eventually because of agression issues. Theres something about dogs and goats though...Goats just drive predators WILD. Kinda like a rabbit squeeling...there's something about goats :( Sorry for your situation, I know how bad it sucks :(

I'm sorry about Cupcake, I hope she pulls through. How's your daughter taking it?
One dog is one thing, more than one dog is a pack and (some) dogs in packs act completely different and out of general character than when they're alone - not with another dog. Being in a pack situation can bring out instincts like ganging up on a prey animal. You can bet they'll do it again too.

Yeah, it sucks, doesn't it. The same thing happened to me with my very first goat. I used to be devoted to my dogs, but ever since that incident, I haven't felt the same way. In our case, there was no warning or precdent for the behavior. The dogs had been around goats for years, and several of them had been raised around goats from birth.

I had a similar problem with my sisters dog and I ended up shooting it. I really did not want to kill my nieces dog, but she kept killing my chickens, killed my daughters rabbit (somehow got the hutch open) and she went after the goats. I was there when she tried to get the goats or they would have been dead. Then it got to the point where she was snappy at me when I would try to catch her-- my sister would not invest in a good chain, run or fencing so I shot her a few weeks ago. Like I told my sister-- I did not trust her near the kids at all.

One point I'd like to make-- if you are supervising a dog and they start mauling your child, the dog is going to do damage before you can stop the situation. IMO a dog you do not trust should never be loose near a child-- especially a big dog like a shepard.

As for shepards-- we had a white one growing up and she was a great dog. The dog I have now is half Shepard, half Rottweiller and he is a wonderful dog-- he has never went after any of my critters. He is the smartest, most trainable dog I've ever had and I absolutely trust him with my goats. I do not keep him penned with them, but most of the time the goats aren't fenced in-- they just wander around the yard as long as I'm home. He does a great job keeping predators away and he keeps the goats where they belong.

I'm curious-- what did you do to punish the dogs? Did you chain them, fence them up, beat them or just let them continue to wander around? My younger dog (part lab) killed a chicken once when he was 4 months old-- he played with it until it died. I chained him up, ignored him except to feed him and kept telling him he was a bad dog for killing my chicken (which he understood) After about a week I let him loose and he has never killed anything else-- that was 2 summers ago. Of course, for a long time whenever he went near the chickens the bigger dog growled at him and chased him away from them.

I hope Cupcake pulls through and I'd definately keep the dogs away from the goats from now on.

Michelle

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Those kind of dogs are for guarding property and not animals or children.

You are asking for trouble, and if it happens again and the children jump in to stop it they could be next to get mauled.

You did not think so before and you were wrong. The dogs should be gone because they already have a taste for blood.

They have been known to turn and attack there owners.
German Sheperads are not to be trusted.

bumpus
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How is she this morning? I am so sorry this happened to you.

Representatives of ALL breeds have turned on their owners. To say that all German Sherperd Dogs can not be trusted is a very broad statment that simply isn't true.

Yes if the children try to break something up they could end up getting bit, so can an adult that intervens. That would be true whether the dogs in question were small or large. Children need to be taught how to behave around dogs and they need to be supervised when interacting with them or any other animals that have the potential to harm them.

Every dog has a beginning of it's bread, and a purpose for it's bread.

German Shepherds are not bread as a livestock type dogs.
They are bread for guard and attacking, same as dobermans, rottweilers, chows and many others.

Even livestock dogs have to be trained right, or they won't work either.

Sheep dogs are not the best for herding cattle they are guard dogs.

Boarder collies are best on small livestock.

Australian Shepherds are good all around livestock dogs, if trained right

Hunting type dogs do not make for good livestock dogs.

Look at dogs best suited for the type of work you expect them to do, or you are wasting time, and work, and investment.

A show dog is not a work dog either, etc.

bumpus
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I agree with celadon and others who say it is a natural behavior of ALL DOGS which are not habituated to livestock from birth, including pet individuals from LGD breeds which have not been habituated, to chase and hunt prey animals.

Goats are prey animals. So there ya go.

Rather than executing the dogs for their natural, instinctive behavior, I would be looking at what I did or I allowed out of ignorance that created a bad situation. I would then be learning more, and trying to use the new information to modify the environment to avoid future catastrophe.

Personally, I have even had my goat herd chased by poodles and miniature Daschunds that wormed under the fence! It is a natural behavior. My own yard dogs, including a GS-chow cross, would likely hunt the goats if they could get with them.

Which is why I make darned sure they can't get with them.

As far as disparaging certain dog breeds, etc., I strongly feel that is a lot of hogwash. Remember the old Honeywell slogan? "The system is the solution." Your management of your dogs and livestock is the solution. People create the dogs they own by their management or mismanagement of those animals.

And that is worth repeating.

As you know, Emily, it's true of livestock or dogs. I know by hard experience that "the system is the solution" is a heckuva lot more than just a slogan. It's a nearly universal goal.

Absolutely. This is a sad thread. But its not the fault of the dogs alone. The circumstances were right for a disaster, and it happened.

Disaster is a great teacher, though, huh Emily? I've had 'em, myself over the years, in one form or another. What's that old adage: When the student is ready, the teacher will appear?

The student has to be ready, though, to be able to see the lesson. I hate learning things in this manner, but sometimes there is no getting around it. The key is that I do indeed learn, and change.

How're the goats, RedneckPete?

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Most dogs are stimulated by quick movements, and if a animal like a goat makes a quick unexpected move it will triger a dog to attack, ( sometime its starts out as playing around ) and then the progression increases, until the animals stops moving.

If there is more than one dog they will gang up, and work together.

I had a dog like that, and it went bye, bye.

Dog domination, and death of the animal.

bumpus
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This is Chandra, Pete's wife, weighing in.

Sandy, our female GSD (now 4 years old), was the first animal that ever graced our lawn. All livestock (chickens, pigs, pigeons, and goats) were added in the ensuing years. We bought Sandy as a pup, so she has been completely habituated to all the animals here on our homestead. She has always hunted wild game (rabbits, opposums, and racoons) and we have never discouraged that. She did kill a couple of chickens the first year we had them, but quickly learned that such actions were completely unacceptable and has never repeated the offense. She was completely oblivious of the goats, whether it was the mother or the kids.

Ruger, our male GSD (now 3 years old), we purchased last year. We were looking for a PB male GSD, but weren't keen on going through the puppy stages again (we had enough toys and tarps and equipment destroyed last time!). We were trying to find one under a year old, but when we found Ruger, at two years old, and got to know him, we were fully confident in his character and behaviour. Ruger was a house dog, raised with children, and fully trained by his owner, who is a K9 officer with the Toronto PD. When we bought Ruger, he became an outside dog, and has taken well to that life, hunting the wild game alongside Sandy. He also initially killed one chicken, but has since not done so again. As a matter of fact, we have one chicken (we call it "the Picken" because it was hatched by a pigeon...long story) who was hand-raised for the first few months and who is now outdoors but is always by the house. The picken even goes right into the dogs' kennel and dog house and interacts with the 6-week-old pups on a daily basis, and the older dogs literally do not even waste the energy to look at her. Same with our cat, who is about 50/50 indoor/outdoor.

When we first got Cupcake, we would take her out of the pen only on a leash, and slowly introduced her to the dogs. They were initially very curious, but never aggressive toward her, even when she would become skitterish about them sniffing at her. Eventually we allowed her to run free, and they interacted fine together. We, or our daughter, were always outdoors whenever Cupcake ran loose, mostly to keep her out of my gardens! :) Sandy grew to be completely oblivious to Cupcake, and Ruger also mostly ignored her.

When the kids were added to the mixture, Ruger became more interested in them, and that is when he began to display his "herding nature". Again, we closely monitored him, and were convinced that he was not displaying aggression, but rather, was protecting and herding them.

I am not convinced that we were wrong in this. I am not convinced that these last few months, he has rather been "lying in wait" for the perfect moment to strike. Instead, I think he was herding them, but, as been stated earlier, that herding instinct is just a refined prey drive, and we in our ignorance did not realize this. Therefore, when something happened to set him off (perhaps he chased the kids back to mom a little too quickly and she responded aggressively to him?), the untrained herding instinct was overtaken by the prey drive.

Yes, this was our mistake. No we will not have the dogs unsupervised near any of the livestock again. No, I am not afraid for our childrens' safety with the dogs, even after this. No, I don't think I'm stupid. This has not given the dogs a "taste for blood"...after all, they kill wild game already. This was an exceptional situation that, Lord willing, will never have opportunity to repeat itself. Pete and I both grew up with large dogs (Pete with a GSD and I with a Siberian Husky and a lab/rottie x), and never was anyone in any way ever threatened or endangered by our dogs, because they were raised and trained properly. We feel entirely secure in having our dogs interact with any children, and of course our 2-yr-old is never outside on his own anyway... :)

As to breed-specific generalizations, the opinion stated by our vet yesterday when I quizzed him on exactly that, was that Rotties and Pit Bulls do have something in their nature that can cause a perfectly trained and docile dog to turn suddenly vicious when provoked in some way. GSDs, however, are not the same in that there is always some sort of indication of aggression or escalating interest in animals/people before an attack actually occurs; ie. GSDs give warning, and owners must be alert to these signs and act accordingly. Had we known earlier about the herding instinct being a refined prey drive (entirely our mistake), we would have immediately disallowed any of the herding behaviour right from the start.

SO...how is Cupcake doing this morning? I am not as excited about her as I was yesterday. When the vet came by yesterday morning, he intially had no words of hope for us. Then, while he was here, Cupcake began to drink water on her own initiative, nibbled on some straw, then gobbled down the grain we quickly brought her, and finally, with some assistance from the vet, managed to get her feet under her and stood up for several minutes. The vet was very excited and said repeatedly that "Now this makes me hopeful. This is an excellent sign!". This morning, Cupcake is still eating (not really drinking, since she's on a huge bag of IV fluids), but is not making any effort to get upright, as she tried repeatedly to do yesterday. Even when we brought her kids in with her for a few minutes (at the vet's suggestion, to boost her morale), although she greeted them quite vocally, she did not make any effort to stand or even raise her head far from the floor. I am hoping, however, that this is just the pain meds wearing off and the stiffness setting in. We'll keep monitoring her closely and will pray for the best.

Our daughter is taking it very well. As a "farm kid", she is used to the death of animals, although a planned slaughter is much different from a pet attack. But she does recognize that although we are giving our very best effort, there is still a less than 50% chance of recovery, and that the outcome is entirely in the Lord's hands.

Thanks to all for your words of encouragement and support...sorry this turned out to be such a long sermon! :rolleyes:

Chandra

Hope she does ok for you.....yes, learning this way is hard but many of us have. :rolleyes:
Question. Is she eating hay?? Just concentrates with no roughage will put a ruminant out very quickly.
At this point, I would be offering her oak, walnut, blackberry leaves and hay, and only giving her a taste(a very small taste) of grain.

(((Chandra))) You're doing exactly what I would do and I pray for a good recovery.

OK, I hate to say it, but in light of this information, you have a serious problem on your hands. I think that if you are not going to put the dogs down, you should rehome them in a non-rural area.

Are you serious?? :doh: They have been allowed to actively practice their preditor instincts, killing and probably eating animals, in a pack situation no less and you think they haven't got the taste for blood? Well, you're right. THIS didn't give them a taste for blood, they already had it. How about the thrill of the chase? They are both very skilled at both now. I couldn't believe what I read in that you actually allow your PET dogs to hunt and kill wildlife.That's a recipe for disaster IMO. They are not hunting dogs. You have practically trained your dogs to act viciously against living things and it's only a matter of time before your child starts squealing for whatever reason and your dogs will be on him or her before you can blink.
I believe that ALL dogs, not just GSDs, as a breed, USUALLY , not "always", give some kind of warning signs before something like this happens. Your male did.

Sorry that is bull. I have a Golden who kills moles with one good neck snap, field mice and etc but he knows his place around here. I do not believe in that "taste of blood" nonsense either Mrs. Pete. I think part of your problem was/is he came to you at 2 years old and you really do not know what you are getting.
Nor do I believe this breed nonsense. Any dog has the potential to be a killer. I know I mentioned it here before a book I read that is disturbing. The book is called "Fatal Dog Attacks" by Karen Delise. There is even a Pom in there that killed a baby. Please keep your dog away from your livstock but please do not chain it up. Those animals lead sad and horrible lives and they can take out their frustration on anything within chain distance.
I had a beagle mix that I got as a pup when my son was 7. He was a pretty good dog but around the time my daughter turned 3 he started to nip at her. This was when we lived in the burbs. It was never a bite snce he did not break the skin. I wored with him and he never improved. So did I go out and shoot him? No, I took him to a very good humane society and told the TRUTH about what he was doing and he was adopted to a new place with no small kids and he lived out the rest of his life.
I have two pix I would like to post here but no matter the size I pick they are still big. They are of my Golden being grazed on by our bottle baby and they other was a few years ago when we had ducks and he let them sleep with him and peck at him. He might kill things that are not "mine" but that does not mean he has any over active "blood/prey drive". As a puppy I mess with all my dogs, stick my hands in their food, carrying them, hold them like babies and etc. They are also not outside 24/7.
Good Luck with your Cupcake and I do admire your attitude during this whole thing.

Now wait a minute. All of our "pet"/yard dogs kill raccons, possoms, groundhogs, etc. That is part of their job. They keep these things off the farm(and out of our chicken coops), and they provide loving companionship. They would also kill coyotes if they could catch them. Just because they kill wildlife pests does *not* mean a dog is a killer and will likely turn on a child. Thats just bologna.
How about LGD's?? Don't you think they kill wildlife?? You bet your boots they do. Does that mean they will kill the livestock they protect?? Not at all.

I agree with you Emily. My older girl could not catch a coyote but Cody sure tries. He knows his place and waht to respect around here and he can kill all the nasty moles and etc he would like. I just do not like having them deposited on my door step!

I had GS's most of my life(Before livestock). They were wonderful with me as a kid and wonderful with my own children. I wouldn't have them with livestock. My reason is my Late MIL and Late FIL raised sheep and cows here and the dogs were raised with them. The 2 dogs were loose always and never left the farm. One spring they kept losing lambs. They couldn't figure out how something or someone was getting ahold of their lambs. It only happenned when they were gone. So my MIL went down the driveway(you can't see the bottom from the top). and slowly snuck back up on foot. Then she hovered in the tree line to watch. Low and behold it was the gs's stealing and eating the lambs. they took them into the woods. She was stunned. She raised those dogs and they were as good as gold with the livestock when she was home.

I still love GS's but won't have them as long as I have livestock.

I also have been around enough to like them as dogs, but as you say, I will not have them with livestock. I just can't take the risk and I'd hate to have to put a dog down or re-home a pet because I wasn't careful enough once and the worst happened.

Sorry to disagree but you are WRONG

Gs's were originally bred for herding! They are still used in some countries for HERDING! Not for livestock Guardians!

Because of their intense Loyalty and strength speed and agility they were trained as guard dogs and war dogs.

I will agree that they have no place as a livestock guardian dog but only because of their HIGH PREY DRIVE.

They are wonderful, loyal dogs. My kids were raised with them and so was I.

Emily, you are right. I had a pet dog that killed possums and coons and he was very loving and didn't touch any of "our" animals but I never trusted him enough to bet my small dogs' lives on it because you never know for sure. But if they kill wildlife, in a pack situation, and then they attack and maime a domestic pet that they should know is a 'part of the family' in a pack situation, I sure wouldn't trust them around small children for a second.

We had a GSD that was a very loving dog and her previous owners allowed her to kill small wild animals. They moved and couldn't keep her. We took her in and she was good while someone was out with her but later she started going after chickens and we'd scold her, then went after a duck and killed it. We scolded her harshly for it and shorty after (the same day) she charged out of her dog house and tried bite my horse's back legs while I lead her up the driveway. That was the end of that.

My friend has a very sweet young dog that kills small wild animals. That dog mauled and killed her baby goat. Her other dog, Husky/Rott mix, who had never been allowed to hurt other animals, joined in as well. It triggered an instinct.

No, these aren't examples of dogs turning on children. Every situation is different. Every dog is an individual. It CAN escalate in some dogs. I personally just wouldn't take that chance.

I also read about incidents where LGDs up and start killing baby goats or attacking adults so it can and does happen.

I hope Cupcake gets better for you. It's a tough choice with dogs you love vs. livestock you love. I have four dogs, they have their own yard away from the other livestock. I do take the lab mix to the barn with me but he is never unsupervised, just not worth the risk and potential heartache.

I am so sorry about Cupcake. It is so hard to see our precious animals when they are hurt. I am praying for a speedy recovery for her.

I have a story as long as we are on this topic. A number of years ago when we were getting started with goats, I bought a beautiful reg. black nubian who had been AIed to a champion buck. Black Raseberry was probably the most beautiful goat I had ever seen and I paid a lot of money for her. But I though she was worth it. She not only was going to be the family milker - but the children would have shown her in 4H. Anyway - about 6 weeks before she was to deliver her kids, my husband's retreiver dog got out and paid a visit to the barn when the children and I were at church. When we got home, Tucker (the dog) came up to greet us as we got out of the pickup. He was full of blood. He had killed Black Raseberry and a pet wether and had also torn the ears off a bottle calf we had. It was awful. I wanted to imediately have Tucker put down but my husband disagreed. He had stuck a lot of money into the dog to have him trained., but I was not going to allow a killer dog around my animals or children. We faught about it for several weeks - until one day while hubby was at work, Tucker took a little trip with the neighbor into the vets office where he was put to sleep. It caused a lot of friction between my hubby and I - but I felt at the time and still do that I did it for the safety of my children and my animals. Since then I have had my dad show me how to use a gun. Don't have any problems with my little corgis - but should I ever have problems with stray dogs - I am prepared.

I am very sorry about Cupcake. I am not going to say anything about the dogs, because enought has been said and not everyone will always agree. I will say that just because a dog attackes a animals doen NOT mean it will attack children. That said.
I pray that CupCake pulls through. I had a friend that her HUGE goat was attacked by two dogs. One goat was killed or dead by the time we got to them and the other one was alive but barely. We ran him to the vet and the vet said "lets try to save him". Now it was not my goat but I told the owner to put him down, he was in so much pain. She chose to try to save him. He came to my house because I had a barn that I could put him in and treat him. Well he died three days later. It was SO wrong of her to try to save him. The HARDEST thing you are going to face is do you let her suffer? Now only you guys and the vet know how bad she really is, so it is your choice, I just ask you not to let her suffer. Keep a eye on her temp. If it starts to drop, she is giving up. I will pray that she pulls through this. I know it can happen, I just pulled another goat out of a very bad dog attack someones elses). I told the vet to just put him down and he said no, he can make it with some care, and he did. Prayers to you and the family.

Okay, this could be really yucky or something perfectly normal...

Today I noticed this white stuff on Cupcake's wounds. I initially thought it was just a crust forming, or dried up fluids (there has been stuff oozing out slowly, the vet explained it as liquid and gas trapped between the layers of tissue). But today we've started with a really serious fly problem, and when I looked at this stuff really closely, it suddenly occured to me that it might possibly be fly eggs? It's not terrifically clear here, but it looks like hundreds of tiny white grains of rice. If it is fly eggs, what do I do, wash them off? I touched it (ewww!) and it feels hard and crusty.

Chandra

[IMG]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...pcakeSmall.jpg[/IMG]