problems problems PROBLEMS....

Another tip is when you get your new med and are sure of the dosages write it on the bottle. No mistakes that way. Also start a "goat " note book with all the important stuff in it,. Print off stuff from both sites I gave you and if you can get a copy of Goat Medicine by Dr M Smith.

If you need to talk and have more questions ask I know if you pm me I will give you my phone # and so will others.


PAtty

well i printed this, and took it home and today i'm going to try these new meds i am more hopeful with the new rec cause i just knew i was going to lose them all if i didn't get answers from people that KNEW what they were talking about, my vet doesn't have the first clue about anything except how much to charge, but she is all i have in my area that will even look at goats. but i think i have most questions answered but i'm still not sure how long to give the vit. for i started b 12 two days ago and i don't know how long to give it? and the LA 200 is it just one shot? and red cell where can i get that at?

I like Sher's post today. It's pragmatic.

As far as "why it is worthwhile to pay more from the right breeder," chamoisee, I have to respectfully disagree. This situation is entirely a management problem that could have/would have cropped up regardless of where the goats came from, and Emilia has indicated in post #38 that she has, in my view, paid well for the goats. In fact, I think she was generous with the breeders she got them from, but that's just my opinion.

Back to management, it is the stress of the move and the changing surroundings and diet -- combined with the stress of weaning -- that caused the beginning of the cascade resulting in this train wreck. I said earlier that I have had similar experiences, but mine were with sale-barn goats which were delivering about 15% death loss. I ultimately found out that a quarantined intake with sulfa in the drinking water and offering only hay/pasture reduced death losses to less than 1%.

While I know it is a common view that grain is good, the fact remains that in nature, grain would be either a nonexistent or extremely small part of a goat's diet (the same is true of cows). It is unnatural to feed grain, and so grain must be handled with caution, as a potentially beneficial but also potentially ruinous addition to the diet. In this case, excess sweet feeds and grain may not have directly caused the problems, but they certainly hastened them along. Hay, browse and grass are always best bets when the potential for scouring is present (which is anytime goats are stressed).

It has also been my experience that goats that are excessively pampered by breeders/owners and then sold into production conditions need extra attention and help as they transition into a more natural system minus all the crutches that pampering has provided them in the past. Change must be very gradual to prevent a crash, and again a sulfa drug constantly provided in the drinking water during the first 2 weeks is a tremendous help.

I also know of goat farmers who add to the sulfa in water by providing a shot of LA200 to every goat upon intake, and also some who add a CD&T vaccination.

My own experience has been that the price paid and the source of the goat generally matters far less than the lifestyle it led at the source farm, and the management of it once it arrives and begins to adjust to its new home.

Emelia, I hope you see signs of improvement in the next 2-3 days.

Please keep us up to date.

__________________
Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

oh yeah and everyone has said b complex instead of b 12 so is it ok to switch even though i started b12 already??

Em are you injecting b12? Be sure you have epinephrine handy. I just shoot the b into their mouth. They hate the taste, but less likelihood of anaphylactic shock.

Ruth

Emelia: Just one shot of the LA200, if that is the route you are going. It can sting them some as it goes in, so they may show some discomfort. Just so you are ready if that happens. I agree with Ruth on epinephrine. You have to get that from the vet now.

__________________
Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

If you go to the Cornell U website and find her listing, you can email Dr. Smith. She has answered every email I've ever sent her!

Ruth

i did wean them too early i think now, the lady that took really good care of them told me they should be weaned by 2 months so soon as they started eating i took the bottle away, all in a week... didn't have problems (other than coughing) until then...

its hard for me to go to alot of sites my computer at home got hit by lightning and work is the only way i have internet acces right now... and tyson blocks almost everything.

2 months is too early to wean, I think. In natural circumstances, they would eat grass/browse and also would suckle for maybe up to 4-plus months til mama kicked them off. We always bottled ours til they were 3-1/2 to 4 months, at which time they would really show little interest in the bottle anyway and weaning was easy.

If you printed out the thread here, you have everything you need to get most of them well again. It will take about 7-10 days for it all to sort out once you start drug treatment(s). You should see some marked improvement among those who will make it in 3 days.

Hang in there. Don't go into panic mode. Very important not to let the diseases overcome your ability to successfully manage them.

__________________
Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

i have this in "process" chicken pen it has not been cleaned out yet just fenced off there are lots of roughage in there would it help if i put them in there?? couse it is fenced off but no chickens have been in ther yet but its all woods.

Emilea, I sent you a PM.

Ruth

we have been cleaning out the barn with disinfectint and cleaning water and feed dishes and keeping the smaller pin (where the ill ones are) raked atleast every other day to try to kill the sickness that could still be living... after they have had meds should i keep this up for a while to make sure, i mean we uaually do it like every two weeks anyways, is that good enough?

It's not possible to sterilize a pen. I think it works better to give them enough room so they aren't concentrated together.

well the sick ones are in a pin that is an acre and its only 4 of them in it... i they to space them out.. and i am not buying anything new for a very long time!! and i have made a corinteen (sp) pen now.. so when ever i do i can keep them there. i'm so thankful for everyone that has offered help!! i will keep you updated i havn't got to see them yet today, dh does mornings while i'm at work, but he will call with an update and we are giving the b12 oraly. so hopefully soon i will see some positive changes!! i will keep you updated!! thanks!!

My vet gave me recover to use for the cough. He also told me you can give cortizone, it helps the lungs clear out.

I hope I haven't sounded mean, because that certainly hasn't been my intent. It is just frustrating to hear about this sort of thing, especially since I have had to deal with the same kind of heartache myself.

Which breeder sold you the doe that has a lump on her throat? Call her up, and ask her if any other goats in her herd have ever had lumps on their bodies anywhere, and what she thinks it might be.

When the vet drained the lump, did she let you watch? What did the fluid look like? Unless the fluid was blood, I don't think the lump could be caused from another goat butting it. It is true that lumps aren't always CL- sometimes it is an infected splinter or a thorn caught in the goat's inner cheek. However, every lump, especially lumps on a neck or jawline, should be suspect, and the vet should have cultured it.

There is also a blood test for CL, you draw the blood and send it in. If you can draw the blood or get someone else to, I recommend doing this.

I wouldn't move them to any other pens until you know what you are dealing with and they have completely recovered. Moving them now will just contaminate the other area too.

I weaned a few wethers once at 2 months, because a goat magazine article recommended it. Boy, am I glad I didn't try it on doelings. They got stunted and stressed and did poorly, and I'll never do it again. I don't think it works except in the most extremely fine tuned, controlled circumstances. IMHO, goats do better off the longer they nurse, this is why goats lactate for more than 8 weeks.

I hope Vicki comes in here soon....

I gave emilea Mary Smith's email address. Dr. Smith has been a wonder when I've asked her for help.

Ruth

oh no nothing anyone has said has sounded mean, i am greatful for everything everyone has offered!! i just didn't realize it was or could be this big... but now that i do i have a better chance of fixing my problem.

Please keep us up to date on how everyone is doing when you can. I'm pulling for your babies to pull through...