Using Copper Sulfate instead of Boluses?

Bricheze · #61 07/22/09, 11:43 AM

Hey, I know I saw a map for crops/pastures/areas with selenium defeciencies on it. Is there one for copper too?

southerngurl · #62 07/22/09, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim S.

Most studies I have seen say that goats need 8-10 ppm copper intake as part of the diet daily (except Saanendoah/University of California, which says 10-20 ppm). The Salt Institute says goats "normally have 0.8 to 1.2 ppm copper in the serum." However, the research also says a requirement has not been established, but that goats can tolerate copper levels way higher than that.

The Sweetlix I use runs between 1,750 ppm-1,810 ppm...same as the Sweetlix Caprine Magnum-Milk. That's a lot more than enough. When I pour the stuff out, I taste copper on my tongue just by breathing. I check that it is being consumed (easy with PVC feeders). With the molasses Sweetlix mixes in, the goats lap it up pretty good.

I just can't get that breathless about the copper deal. I guess it could be necessary to manipulate mineral supplements as the diet becomes more and more unnatural (heavier on the grains). I wouldn't know about unnatural diets; I don't farm like that.

The most positive research that I have read about copper boluses says that their use helps to control worms. That would be a benefit of a high copper dose, delivered by bolus at an unnaturally higher rate than the goat would normally consume by free choice.

Or worm and egg reduction could be done in a number of other ways, like rotational grazing.

It's not just about unnatural diets. It is very important to me to feed my animals as naturally as I can. My goats get browse, which is supplemented with alfalfa hay and whole oats, usually 1-2 lbs per day. They get a high copper mineral. But still, I gave some of my does copper boluses a little while back. One of them was black and she is the one you can REALLY tell the difference on. Her coat is coming in underneath glossy black. So still have copper problems with a "natural" diet. I think it's just that we have a lot of iron in our water.

Idahoe · #63 07/22/09, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bricheze

Hey, I know I saw a map for crops/pastures/areas with selenium defeciencies on it. Is there one for copper too?

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/cu/usa.html

Idahoe · #64 07/22/09, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airotciv

Just a general question about copper. I live in Oregon and a while back I was talking with a neighbor who grows grass hay. He said that the hay grown here, pastures as well, were low in copper, but high in Iron and Sulfur. Now, if I rember right, that Iron and Sulfur interfer with the intake of copper (college, 30 years ago). So do you have to take this into account when supplementing copper for goats? Is there a rule of thumb on how much to supplement? Very interensting and confusing.

I don't *think* so, but it's a good question.

Copasure makes copper boluses sold all over the US, and given all over the US in spite of the levels of sulfur and iron in the natural environment, so I would think it doesn't matter ENOUGH to adjust any specific dose toward it.

airotciv · #65 07/22/09, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idahoe

I don't *think* so, but it's a good question.

Copasure makes copper boluses sold all over the US, and given all over the US in spite of the levels of sulfur and iron in the natural environment, so I would think it doesn't matter ENOUGH to adjust any specific dose toward it.

Thanks, I haven't gotten my goat/sheep yet, next month. So, I'm clueless on most things goat. Until I read this post I didn't know anything about copper supplements. Now I'm just confused.

NaturalFamiLEA · #66 07/22/09, 08:12 PM

This has been a very good thread. I didn't notice that this thread was so old until it was brought up. I would love to hear from Jillis how her goats are doing, and if she still is using the 1/7tsp dose for them.

Alice In TX/MO · #67 07/22/09, 08:30 PM

I started the thread, and I bolus now. It's just one more thing to learn to do.

Minelson · #68 07/22/09, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idahoe

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/cu/usa.html

Thanks for the map Idahoe!

Backfourty,MI. · #69 07/23/09, 12:04 PM

I may try the marshmellow trick too! Let me know if you try it susanne & how it works for you. We also have alot of iron in our water here & am sure that is what messes with our copper absorption too. Not alot of sulfur though thank goodness. I just switched to the Right Now Onyx mineral by cargill a few weeks ago so I'm going to see if that makes an improvement in the goats coats. I was using a minereal that was red based which was copper sulfate in it & this new one has the copper oxide in it. I do see the goats eat it as they need it. It is black in color & I beleive the bag said 2600 ppm's of copper. The feed store I buy from started ordering it for me.
If I don'e see a change for the better in the coats of my goats I'll try the marshmellow trick but I want to give this mineral awhile to make a difference.

hoofinitnorth · #70 07/23/09, 03:53 PM

I bolus and I have been doing it religiously at 5-month intervals using 1g/22# body weight. I buy the 2g and 4g boluses from Farmrite in the UK and have them shipped over.

You would not believe the difference in many of the animals when they lived at their prior farm vs. what they look like now (I also use Bo-Se and feed only whole grains and a good mineral). I believe the other farm boluses, but I don't know how often or at what dose.

farminthewoods · #71 07/24/09, 02:04 PM

Lots of great info about copper, thanks everyone. Now if I could ask a few questions. I got my two Alpine goats about 3 wks ago. Nellie is a year and few months and Daisy is a few months old. I noticed both of their coats are not shiny at all, and a little rough. Daisy has a large rumen, but Nellie never looks fat...and I'm of the understanding that her rumen should look large all the time.
Their previous owners had them on alfalfa/grass mix and some browse, and a trace mineral/salt block but never a loose goat mineral.
I have bought a loose goat mineral, but after reading this post and a few other articles, I was concerned the copper in it may not be enough.
Our water is very high in iron, so much so, that often it looks orange.
Should I copper oxide bolus them? Is it safe even tho they are getting copper sulfate in their mineral mix? I am planning to get Nellie bred this fall, so I want her to be in better condition before then.
Where I live their are very few/no goat breeders or goat vets etc so I'm not sure of who to go to for information on copper for goats, so any info from you will be very much appreciated!
Also, these goats have never been dewormed, should I do that before copper supplementation or will copper supplementation take care of any parasites they may have? I read that copper won't be absorbed as well with parasites, and I read that copper helps take care of parasites, so I'm a little confused. ~Kristie

smwon · #72 07/24/09, 02:22 PM

Hi Kristie, I don't bolus, but I do give copper sulfate. My doe was pretty copper deficient, much like you describe your does coats, until I started using the copper sulfate and mineral mix according to Pat Coleby. Now she is nice and shiny and quite healthy. Here she is taken about a week ago just before I milked her, but previous to that she had a very coppery color to her legs and her coat was horribly rough.

Using Copper Sulfate instead of Boluses? - Goats

Using Copper Sulfate instead of Boluses? - Goats

Laural H. · #73 07/24/09, 04:20 PM

I use AZOMITE, here is the link,
http://azomite.com/feedmatrix.html

I use it on goats, chickens, plants and myself. It's not toxic, and I simply dust a little grain with it about once a week.
This is truly an amazing product, and my goats are happy and healthy.
This is not a product for treating illness, only deficiencies.
You can find it a plant nurseries and garden centers.

southerngurl · #74 07/24/09, 04:30 PM

The Azomite may be good, but it's not going to be your copper supplement at 12 ppm.

susanne · #75 07/24/09, 04:31 PM

katie i never tried the marsh mellow but with practice, now i rarely have a doe that is chewing the bolus

even my very big boys give me no trouble