Using Copper Sulfate instead of Boluses?

I use it in my water tubs to keep algae down during the summer. I buy the stuff they use in loose minerals. The feedstore sells it by the lb.

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Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

Thank you for the link, Milk n' Honey...to answer your question, I have been using copper sulfate for over 1 year, admittedly not very long.

Many substances we use for both ourselves and our animals can be toxic at much higher doses than those given. Yet as trace minerals they are necessary to the health and functioning of our bodies. Iron is a very good example of this prinicipal. At too high a level it causes poisoning and death. A chronically high level of iron intake and retention can cause some very unpleasant health issues. But you would not dream of telling people not to have any iron intake at all, it is necessary to the health and functioning of your body.

FWIW, strictly speaking copper sulfate is not a pesiticide, it is used as a fungicide. It is listed under that heading (pesticide) in the article because of EPA rules. I was for years a Certified Pesticide Applicator, and have had a lot of training and inservices on this subject. I certainly am not recommending the sulfate powder over the oxide boluses. Whatever anyone wants to use should be fine, as long as they are supplementing the copper in some form or another. And yes, the fact that a goat with GOOD levels of copper in their bodies are not good hosts to parasites is just one of the good reasons to supplement with it. That is one of the good reasons people bolus with copper oxide rods, too, so that is not an argument against using copper sulfate powder.

I happen to use the powder because I was given a large amount of it at the feed store from a bag that had ripped. If I had heard of the boluses before I went looking for the sulfate, I probably would have used those. I responded to the question asked by the original poster, with the fact that yes, I use the sulfate powder and the results of that use. IMO, giving the powder will not result in any greater accumulation than the rods, in fact, it may be harder to calculate the exact release of copper from the rods once they are ingested. I was not, and still am not trying to engage in a debate touting the sulfate over the oxide---I just don't agree that the sulfate is detrimental or useless. I have found it to be one of the best things I've done for my goats.

There are MANY people who have been using the powder on their goats for years with satisfactory results. It is probably a fact that at the levels I give it, the goat's lifetime will have expired before any detriment can occur.

I would like to comment, that since I started this regimen, my goat herd has been extremely healthy. In every way. But for the past year, almost all of your posts have been about bad goat health issues you were having that many felt were the results of herd management issues. To the point that you got insulted and upset when a few people mentioned what they were thinking.

So while I might hesitate to disagree with Vicki, or Emily, or susanne, knowing they have a great track record of keeping goats healthy and well, I would not hesitate to ask you to rethink your post and the real implications of the information presented in your link. Giving large amounts of many substances, which was the point of the link, can be very harmful, while therapuetic doses are just that, therapuetic. If you really read and analyse the data presented, you will realize this for yourself.

I'll probably use the sulfate powder until I run out, then switch to the boluses. If they don't perform for me the way the powder has, then I will switch back, convenient to use or not.

One concern I have with the boluses is that they are calculated on the weight of the goat. What about goats that are still gaining and growing? Is there a provision made to calculate the dosing on that? That is a question that needs to be answered as well. And can you really predict the rate at which they release the copper? With the powder, I am fairly sure of the dosing my goats are receiving. The boluses themselves are usually listed as anithelmics---a "pesticide" for parasites...not only as supplements for the complete health of the goat. Google the copper oxide boluses and there are tons of articles on their usage as an internal "pesticide" for worms! Especially Barberpole worms.

In addition, copper sulfate is often the form of copper added to mineral mixes and animal feeds. It is considered to be very assimilable. It is also found in milk replacers for many kinds of animals. The article in your link is a good article, but it deals mainly with the detrimental effects of longterm exposure to large amounts of copper sulfate, not with the supplementation of trace amounts in feeds and mineral mixes.

Well, that was a lot more than 2 cents worth, wasn't it?

Great post, Jillis
I forgot to add to mine that the anthemintic angle was a HUGE factor in our deciding to bolus. We are in year-round haemonchus territory and were really interested in the idea of "natural" options/enhancements to our worming plan. Hubby is floating poo and counting eggs as I type this. Goats have done funny things to us.

Seems like I just read that copper sulfate is used to treat foot rot or hoof scald. Anyone use it this way?

great post jillis
i do give copper bolus to my goats and on the plus side is i only have to do it every five month. the down side is the application they are supposed not to chew the bolus or it would not be affective. but what happens to the rods they are swallowing? how safe is it really to give a second and a third bolus until you get it down the way it should be? how often do injuries occur because the gun is placed too deep?
i have not found these answers yet and sometimes think i should try the copper sulfate maybe some day

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Susanne Stuetzler
Ain-ash-shams
Nubian Dairy Goats

please visit us at
http://www.ain-ash-shams.net

Absolutely. I mix it with enough water to make a thick dip and dip the affected hoof it it once a day till its well-healed. Twice a day for a really bad case. It works very well.

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Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

Tell me about it! ROFL!

Thanks. I have one that needs to be treated, but cannot get any until tomorrow. I went ahead and cleaned it well, and applied some antibiotic to it, but wanted to treat with copper sulfate. We have had som much wet weather here, that I cannot seem to get a break long enough for things to dry out good. It had just dried up pretty good yesterday, and this morning more rain.

Thank you Jillis, very well said.

Susanne, it is my understanding that if the rods are chewed, they no longer have the weight to fall into the stomach, so they will be flushed through.

I just want you to know that I successfully bolused with a mashmallow. Well, I actually cut a big marshmallow in half, pulled it apart a bit, and put the dosage of rods in the sticky part. Then I rolled it up and offered it to the goats. Nobody wanted it. So I grabbed the yearling wether first and shoved it down his throat and he quickly swallowed it. That was much better than the 3 attempts that failed with the capsule!

FWIW, Blue Heron Farm, the first couple times we bolused, it went very well. I don't mean to sound discouraging, but I think they wise up and then offer more of a struggle. Hopefully not...

Jennifer

Jillis,

This isn't a competition. I'm glad your goats are doing well but why do you try to humiliate me? My post was meant to be helpful and also to gather information from some of the folks about their experiences with this stuff and was certainly NOT directed at you personally, as you seem to have taken it. Thank you for the portion of your post in which you answered my questions and the detail about the sulfate. I admitted to not knowing much about it. I ran across that article and it is a good article. There are risks to handling certain substances and I'm not convinved that handling the sulfate powder is risk-free to humans. Many things like that do take a while to cause problems and I am always cautious with anything I think could be a cancer risk. I've seen too much cancer. This is how I feel and I don't need an approval and neither do you as to how you feel about it. However, treating me as though I have no right to post because I've had problems with my goats is a bit rude and hurtful to be honest. My goats are very healthy and doing quite well, BTW. I realize you didn't ask but I thought by some chance, you might care. You don't have any idea what that time was like for my husband and I. I will say though, we learned a lot and now have a lot of information to help others. If anything good could come from our first year, we can help others now. Vicki was a huge help to me and I greatly respect her opinion. She's awfully sharp when it comes to goats (probably other things as well...lol). I'm am truthfully sorry if I came across offensive in any way. I know things can be misunderstood when you are reading someone's post. I was only trying to be helpful and add to the thread.

If I can figure out how to do the boluses, I'm going to try that.

BlueHeronFarm....thank you for the link....I'll check that out for sure.

Milk n' Honey, I am very sorry you are so offended with my post. I apologise for offending you. I certainly don't see where you would say I that I have treated you as if you had no right to post, just stated that would not hesitate to ask you to rethink your post a little more analytically. Quite a leap there, I do think you are overreacting to my remarks a tad... I also do not think it is a "competition" either.

My main goal in posting what I posted was to share my information and understanding of copper sulfate, as opposed to what appeared to me to be a misunderstanding of it in your post.

Again, I apologise for offending you.

And I am very happy your goats are prospering.

You did sort of insinuate (m/s?) that I couldn't know what I'm talking about since I have problems with my goats and that you must be right since yours are prospering. That is why I said it isn't a competition and that you maybe didn't think I should be posting info unless my goats are doing really well on my program. Look, I am open to as much info on the subject as I can get. It seems there isn't a lot out there. I probably won't use the stuff b/c I'm a scaredy cat about handling substances that I don't know much about. I hope to try the boluses as soon as I can order some. Thanks for the info and sorry if I misunderstood your attitude towards me. Take care and hope everything continues to go well for you also.

thank you jennifer. i will try the marshmallow next time

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Susanne Stuetzler
Ain-ash-shams
Nubian Dairy Goats

please visit us at
http://www.ain-ash-shams.net

Susanne, it is my understanding that if the rods are chewed, they no longer have the weight to fall into the stomach, so they will be flushed through.
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If the rods are chewed they will still go into the rumen, where they lodge and are slowly absorbed by the body, but you will loose the longer rods, and with all the rods the same smaller size, it absorbs more quickly, with perhaps too many the same size you could have an overdose early, with none lasting the 5 months you were expecting.

What you don't want to do is to dose it with water in a syringe...the girls don't drink water into their rumens. Perhaps the next time you go to your vet you could ask for a balling gun demo, it's quite easy once you know how. You do have to control the head on the milkstand and a half nelson works for me. vicki

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Vicki McGaugh
Nubian Soaps
North of Houston TX
www.etsy.com/shop/nubiansoaps

A 3 decade dairy goat farm homestead that is now a retail/wholesale soap company and construction business.

thanks. this is exactly what i thought.

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Susanne Stuetzler
Ain-ash-shams
Nubian Dairy Goats

please visit us at
http://www.ain-ash-shams.net

More bolus questions....the neighbor bought the copasure and I went over and we read through the article that mentioned one gram for every twenty two pounds o' goat. I used the gelatin capsules I had in my herb drawer and got about 2.5 grams in each capsule, which works out to about 1 capsule for 55 pound of goat. Will THAT be heavy enough to get to the stomache if I get it down the ole goat throat?

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Joan Crandell
Wild Iris Farm
"Fair"- the other 4 letter F word." This epiphany came after almost 10 days straight at our county fair.

joan i use the same size capsule and it works here i fill 2 gram in one capsule.
in order to get the small capsule to hold in the gun i put an empty capsule next to it. i'm sure there are some other solutions for that

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Susanne Stuetzler
Ain-ash-shams
Nubian Dairy Goats

please visit us at
http://www.ain-ash-shams.net

Can't I just use a bolus gun instead of a drenching gun with the rubber doohicky? I have a DOG bolus gun that will hold the smaller capsule easily; I will then SHOVE it halfway down their throat if I've got to avoid those ding dang sharp teeth (my mangled hands are proof that goat bites are far worse than dogs LOL).

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Joan Crandell
Wild Iris Farm
"Fair"- the other 4 letter F word." This epiphany came after almost 10 days straight at our county fair.

my goat/feed guy told me to put pnut butter in the end of the bolus gun to hold the bolus.

Yeah, those teeth ARE shark teeth, aren't they?

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Radically conservatively un-biased liberal.

http://whitepinesoapworks.com/

peanut butter is a great idea. maybe they will swallow the bolus better

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Susanne Stuetzler
Ain-ash-shams
Nubian Dairy Goats

please visit us at
http://www.ain-ash-shams.net