CAE positive doe...

lilly foote · #61 04/29/07, 03:42 PM

I was not BASHING CAE IF YOU WOULD HAVE READ MY POST RIGHT i said i was new at this and i was just asking a question which is what i thought this forum was for

susanne · #62 04/29/07, 03:47 PM

vicki although i have to agree to most of your arguments, i disagree on the g6s. don't get me wrong i'm testing too for this and would not keep a carrier buck. i would not cull an animal because it is a carrier and if i'm not mistaken you didn't either. i don't care if some day " the witch hunt " begins. it is one thing to have a carier for g6s that is not contagiuos and a total different storry to try and sell cae positive does that could potentionally do big harm in the buyers herd.
it is very sad that there are still so many animals out there that are positive, even worse, getting sold to knew people that think they know it all and can prevent from spreading further. the dilemma really is that new people often don't test after they got them, do "heat treated colostrum and pasteurized and make mistakes in doing so. selling kids "that where raised on cae prevention" that then are positive. and to top it off there are some that think they can cure cae with herbs.
this is the best way to keep the disease going around.
very sad.

NewlandNubians · #63 04/29/07, 05:06 PM

So much for "neighborly help and thoughtful advice"

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #64 04/30/07, 02:00 PM

Cathy it's not neighborly or helpful to give advice about a contagious autoimmune disease that includes for a new person not to care about it, that it's no big deal, or something you can eaisly deal with. You have had does go symptomatic as I did, I would not wish that on anyone.

Susanne, To sell Saada Glassin Babbett's son out of her this year he will be tested for G6S at birth since she is a carrier, we will keep doelings only if they are negative, she will be discolosed G6S carrier on our website, bred to our negative bucks we have a good chance of not having carriers in the litter. More and more folks asked this year about our G6S status than any other year yet. 3 of us backed out of a purchase of a buck because the breeder thought pulling blood and testing for G6S on our nickle, was busy work, she doesn't jump through hoops for anyone...and he is still for sale.

All the conversations on G6S and the defensiveness of larger breeders about it (and they are the same ones who have G6S carriers on Nubian Talks list and on others websites, is the exact same rhetoric we got from them (I only mean them as a whole not them as individuals) about CAE back in the 90's

"We don't see symptoms" "We don't have a problem" We don't test but surely would have seen something before now....well not if you don't keep all your kids each year

Poor dooers who go to others farms are blamed on the new person poor management. Just like when a kid turned up CAE positive before testing became mainstream....they had to have caught it after the sale because we don't have swollen knees, hard udders blah blah blah.

I will have jumped on this bandwagon early. I would like G6S to be added to spotlight and colorama Nubian sales kids just like CAE has been added to spotlight. Vicki

susanne · #65 04/30/07, 03:51 PM

vicki i think my point was i would not cull for a carrier but do the breeding accordingly. i also could sell a g6s carrier without hesitation but i can't and will not do that with a cae+ animal. i think it is not very responsible and to flee in not bashing forums and find a way to play down this disease. this is dangerous. i feel sorry for all newcomers that buy a positive animal knowingly or unknowingly, set their heart on this animal and have to witness how it goes down. and most of them do. the 90% showing no symptoms is plain not true.
it also doesn't help to hear from some breeder as excuse (there is not enough known about cae" well duh, it is pretty much known now how to prevent.
another breeder wants to make us believe she is breeding for resistance. i'm cringing if i hear such nonsense.

g6s and cae is like comparing apple to oranges.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #66 04/30/07, 04:01 PM

i also could sell a g6s carrier
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And just like with CAE, soon you won't be able to. If most won't now buy carrier bucks, well carrier bucks come from carrier does...and with testing each kid out of the litter, it becomes expensive...so purchasing negative does and bucks just makes soo much more sense. I know you are buying from someone who doesn't test, but that doesn't mean you can't start and pick accordingly from then on. It's not like folks dont' already know the bloodline has carriers in it, why I tested in fact. I was just lucky that soo many folks tested already so much of my stock. Once folks start publishing the bloodlines that do have carriers over and over, it will hurt sales, so why not start now? Vicki

susanne · #67 04/30/07, 06:02 PM

vicki as long as a test cost $35 per animal we can forget about it.
can you imagine how much money that is for some one like a very good breeder in new york that has close to 70 animals? or the breeder you don't want to buy the buck because she did not test? she has aquired a herd reacently with more that 50 animals and only have them tested for cae had cost her much more than $1000. i visited her twice and bought two does from her. very nice btw. of course as soon as i decide they will stay in my herd they will be tested for g6s. i only have very fiew animals and i'm in a lucky position that my dh supports me but i don't expect it from others because it is so pricy.
i guess it will take a very long time before this will change.

southerngurl · #68 04/30/07, 06:28 PM

I had never heard of g6s. Here is an article on it for others who are wondering what it is as well.

http://gallopinggoatsfarm5.tripod.com/id6.html

What do y'all the way they talk about managing it- allowing carrier does, but no carrier bucks? Seems sensible.

susanne · #69 04/30/07, 06:35 PM

i think it is a good method to keep the expenses down and still have healthy kids.

dezeeuwgoats · #70 04/30/07, 06:40 PM

I agree that comparing CAE to G6S is comparing apples to oranges in that one is a transmittable disease, and one is a simple recessive GENE.

However, I disagree with the expense of the test argument, simply because G6S is a one time deal. You pay for the test, the animal's status never changes. Compared to CAE testing, that is a good deal! If someone is willing to pay for CAE testing year after year, why wouldn't they be willing to pay once for a test to eradicate a simple recessive gene from their herd? The expense lies in culling - losing the genetics of the animals, or paying for the testing of their offspring. So, I guess if you are going to wholly convert and rid your herd - the price is cheap, but if you plan on continueing to breed carriers - the price becomes increasingly steep.

I am one of those 'newbies' who paid an awful lot for a buck before I knew about G6S and he ended up a carrier. I'm in the process of testing everyone. No carrier bucks - period. No way. I WILL keep carrier does in order to keep the genetics, but only to get G6S-free replacements out of exceptional animals. Sadly, it is the only way for me to make my original investment pay off - throw more money at it. If the cross I made weren't turning out so well I might have chosen differently. As it is - those does are staying only until they give me a G6S free daughter.

I've heard it said by other breeders about line-breeding that didn't work - 'You eat your mistakes'. That's what is going to happen over here. I have two generations of kids out of my carrier buck - I'm keeping only non-carrier bucks, and only non-carrier kids out of his daughters. The rest are bar-b-que.

Niki

goatmarm · #71 04/30/07, 08:17 PM

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Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #72 05/01/07, 03:32 PM

testing for Johnnes disease
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We could have another 2 page discussion on this even....Do you blood test, fecal test or do both? They can be negative for many many years only to test positive as older animals. Older animals then become shedders even though they had tested negative for years. Aren't goats just fabulous

Vicki