Starting with Boer goats- peigree important?

Firefly, don't mean to butt in, but saying you are 'dead on' usually means you are right...so it was a compliment, not a 'you're wrong'.

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~Tami

Bob and Tami Parrington
COUNTRY HAVEN RANCH-

To get all the info on my new novel SHAKEDOWN, and watch the video trailer check out my writer's website: 'The Writer's Corner'

Im Crazy And Seeing Things Now Its Been To Long Of A Day

I agree with investing in a great buck. And if you are in it for the meat business..milk does and/or milk/boer cross does do a great job. I like them because they give so much milk..and all I want in my babies is milk and hay for 3-4 months.

The description of a good buck was a good one. I am selling my reg. buck and am going to use his sons this coming breeding season. They are not fullbloods..but he looks to have packed them both. I have never been tempted with his sons to replace him before..so I am in hopes that this means they are as good as I am hoping them to be.

Good luck in your meat goat venture. I think they are way easier to manage than milk goat operations..less labor and investment .. and meat kids don't require papers and such like selling breeding stock would.

Hmmm, and my buck is Leaning Tree Vindicator-I agree strongly with the above quote :baby04:

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Joan Crandell
Wild Iris Farm
"Fair"- the other 4 letter F word." This epiphany came after almost 10 days straight at our county fair.

Jcran they do have very nice goats. I may end up with 2 instead of 1!!!

I may know where to get some decent goats, depends on what you are looking for. I had a couple of pet goats did some research figured out what I wanted to go with. And right after that there was an ad in the paper!! And the rest is history. I am still looking to add to my herd, depending on how many doelings I have born this year. Trying to grow slowly.

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The day I stop learning is the day I stop breathing

He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes.
He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.
Old Chinese Proverb

I might have misunderstood, but if you are trying to sell "meat goats" that fancy paper will not ad much money at the slaughter house. The experts say that 2/3 of all goat ranchers will sell them off in less than three years. If you have never raised goats befor, you might want to save a few thousand dollars and start with good grade does. What everybody has said about the buck is right. A good 7/8 boer buck can be bought for around 1/4 the money around here. So if you were to start off with 10 or so does, the money you save could pay for the barn and fencing...no, really! If you intend on selling meat goats, not papers, then I feel this is a more cost prudent way to start. Find out how much the average meat goat is selling for, then figure out how many you would have to sell to cover that $1000 buck, pluss those $800 does. I started with $75 does and a $150 7/8 boer buck. I started making a profit the first year. If you do indeed want to stay with goats, then you will have found out cheaply. If you find that you don't want the goats, then you havent taken a bath on the deal. What the other people have told you is not wrong, but I always like to put a toe in the water befor I jump in and find the rocks. Mike

That's a really nice post..common sense and bottom line..for meat goats that is. I'm sure some people that are new to meat goats will find benefit from it!

7/8ths bucks should all end up in the slater house anyway, there is not sence in keeping less than the best intact for breeding, the reason you get the BEST and eat the rest is so you can make better quality percentages to send to market and up grade at the same time, there is no sence in makeing more of the same if you can make more better with the same time and money on your doe herd. all it takes is the best buck and he will repay any initian investment with in the first year or two depending on how many grade does you have available to breed to him.

I only breed for meat, not for selliing breeding stock. I have access to a purebred buck, but my boer bucks are simply high percentage. Can't eat those papers. But I do understand the need for a purebred buck if you're breeding and selling for breeding stock. I'm just lucky enough to have a good paying slaughter source nearby.

Ruth

do you butcher the doelings as well?

Ya know..I think this is really a broadstroked statement.

Not everyone is in goats, meat or otherwise, to make oodles of money. Nor do they want to sell reg. breeding stock. Not to mention..just starting out..may not feel like putting a wad of money into goats until they know if they even want to stay in them.

I have sold one buckling to be a sire..in eight years. I have finally..kept back a set of "7/8" twin bucks this year for my own breeding purposes. I got their daddy when he was 3 mo. old. The twins are now 3 mo. old. They are taller and heavier than their dad at that age. One in particular. I am keeping them both for a season because I don't want to go outside my herd right now.

The test will indeed be next years crop of babies. I am more than willing to take that. Like I said..in eight years..I have never thought of keeping back grade sons. I have always used FullBloods. But that doesn't mean I don't think some percentage buck couldn't blow the wheels off of some papered bucks with their progeny..I very much think that can be true.

Just a difference of opinion.

yes it was a broadstroke statement, and yes i am aware that good quality percentages are big and meaty, this is what we want after all, they hold onto the hybred viggor and put it to good use, but i also know from my animal husbandry classes that you cant hope to improve if you mix a percent with a percent. at best you can hope to come out even. which is great if your happy where you are and are selling meat and not genetic material.

seeing animals kept intact simply because they are marked properly and look good at weaning and used to breed more properly marked animals is not what i call responcible though,. this goes for some of the Pure bred Registerd breeders as well, just cause it has a paper trail and a red hed doesnt make it a breeding animal.

Also i am not one who wants to butcher Doelings unless its nessissary, they are worth more as replacements to the breeding herd, and when you have more than enough for your own use its economical to sell some to other herds, and if your able to PROVE the percent and quality stock they come from you can get better prices, not to mention the benifit of the buyer knowing what exactly they are getting, AND the fact that if they in turn sell the animal they cant claim it as a Higher percent than it really is.

i honestly have no problems with what people do on their own farm, they can breed Apples to Oranges for all i care, what bothers me is when animals get sold as something they are not and the quality of the breed and its reputation goes down hill fast,
thats why i have the stance that i do.

I still think starting out, it is best to keep some money at home. I have never bought a $1000 animal, in fact, I've never paid that much for a tractor either, Yet here I am making a good profit from my goats. In fact, I have to keep turning people away. My animals may take an extra week or two to flesh out, but I can afford to wait because I have no loans out to buy bucks, machinery, etc. To start out so in debt onan enterprise with so many unknowns...cost of feed (grow my own, grain and hay), cost of any new buildings, fencing, vet problems, manure management, etc seems to me unwise. If, in a few years you still want to go into papered animals, then by all means do! KSALguy- you make a lot of good points, but only if you REALY love goats. If , as many do, a person thinks they should get the crap hay and the broken down shed, etc, then the high end breeding that you seem to do will be a loss. Good animals neglected when they could be used for other herds. I know someone that breeds Saanens for top money, but they spend the winter (NY state) outside in a shed that is now a lean-to eating what I wouldn't use for beding. People do not want to buy high priced animals from a place that looks like a dump. I'm getting way off topic, but my point is that a person can do well with meat goats without starting with paper animals. I have been improving my heard for years, but I would NOT want to spend that kind of money for animals to be butchered. Also, culling is very necessary for hed improvment. If you don't sell your culls for meat, then who are you selling them to? If you want to keep improving the breed where do those that don't make the grade go? Mike

i am not sure i was clear as to how to start, dont buy expencive does, any doe will work to start out, its the BUCK that needs to be the registerd one, and you will find it easyer to do than you make it sound.

i wouldnt spend $1000 on an animal eather, there is no need too,

you can find bucks that meet all the requierments i have stated, for $500 or less if you know what and where to look for, and you can get good does for $35-75 and breed UP,

yes there are people who dont care about their animals and feed and house them in Crappy conditions, i am not speaking to these people they have their own problems.

and as to where culls go, they go to Freezer camp thats the bennifit of a meat animal of any kind, there are no mistakes, there is only steak in the freezer. and your not spending hundreds of dollers on an animal to go in the freezer, your spending an investment on a starter herd to fill both yours and the buyers freezer, thats why all percent bucklings get banded and butcherd, meat sales, to get the best meat off the healthy but cheep does you can find you need a MEAT buck, the Pure Boer does the best job and will bring you the most return.

my only point that seems to be getting lost is to only use the BEST PURE Bucks, and you will get the most return.
if you shop wisely you can find one affordable. it costs the same to feed crap as it does to feed the best.

just because your a Meat producer and not a Pure bred breeder doesnt mean you shouldnt have A pure buck,
think of it like the Cattle men do, One Angus Bull will take a herd of mixed grade cows and turn the calf crop into Prime Rib, its the same with Goats,

First and foremost, keep your costs in mind and your poundage produced per acre if you plan to produce a commodity kid crop as a business. Less cash and more pounds are the targets. If you are selling your kid crop at the sale barn, you need to control costs, because while one Angus bull will turn a calf crop black and black baldy, when that calf gets off the trailer at the sale barn, it is still being sold as a commodity and is totally subject to market conditions at the time of sale.

Having had experience in both cattle and goats, I agree with KSAL on this: the black hided calf will bring more than a red or brown hide. Personally, I know that's not so much because the grade of meat in the calf is necessarily better if it is black, but rather because the Angus breeders have done such an excellent job of promoting the breed that buyers key in on black as having a reputation for fast feedlot gains and good marbling.

The same goes with the Boer goat influence on kids. If they are readily identifiable as having Boer heritage in them, they will bring more. The Boer breed has done more effective self-promotion than others, and buyers are keyed in on Boer heritage as providing superior meat yield (tenderness and palatability have not entered the goat segment like they have cattle).

So you need a high percentage Boer buck with excellent conformation, or if it makes you feel better about your product, pay the extra to get a papered Boer buck. Just be sure you factor the cost of the buck into the number of does serviced and the expected service life of the animal.

When I did cattle, I used Simmental bulls on my commercial cow-calf herd. I would arrange with another farmer who raised bulls to take one of his yearling bulls and grow it out for him over each winter. He got the weight gain, I got the service. Such arrangements can work for goats, or bucks can be leased, for smaller herds. I have seen online some sky-high service fees, but someone in your immediate area may be more amenable to you wintering a young buck in exchange for service, and then the buck is sold by the owner after that as a proven young herd sire.

Be flexible, and keep your costs LOW, if you intend to run your herd as a business.

UNDER EDIT: Also, timing is important. Try to time your sales so you have the right age and kind of kids to sell 7-10 days in advance of the important high-consumption days. And for anyone who wants to raise commodity meat, a membership in the AMGA gets you a sub to "Goat Rancher," or get a sub directly from the publication. Very helpful info.

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Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

We have a bunch of 'goat rancher' papers from a few years back when I was thinking then of getting into meat goats. I just dug them out last night and was thumbing through them. Sure am glad I never throw out stuff like that.

I have a question though--Jim mentioned having kids ready in the 7 to 10 day span of 'high consumption days'. Besides Easter, what days would those be?

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~Tami

Bob and Tami Parrington
COUNTRY HAVEN RANCH-

To get all the info on my new novel SHAKEDOWN, and watch the video trailer check out my writer's website: 'The Writer's Corner'

Tami, the latest Goat Rancher just published the holidays. You can buy single copies at TSC stores, if you have one.

Look here for one version:

http://www.das.psu.edu/goats/marketing/calendar/

The 7-10 days lead is to get the kid or goat to the auction barn and allow time for transport and slaughter. There's a 7-10 day lead on prices. Hope it helps.

Generally winter kid/goat prices are higher than any other time, with Nov/Dec being a peak.

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Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

Thanks Jim. Dang hubby was just at Farm and Fleet, he's on his way home now though. I don't know what TSC is but I don't think we have any. The big farm stores around here are Farm and Fleet and Big R. I know Big R doesn't carry the goat rancher paper. We'll just have to re-subscribe to it.

That url is fantastic though. Even says what types of kids for which holidays. Thanks a lot.

__________________
~Tami

Bob and Tami Parrington
COUNTRY HAVEN RANCH-

To get all the info on my new novel SHAKEDOWN, and watch the video trailer check out my writer's website: 'The Writer's Corner'

Tractor Supply Co. is TSC. I was born and lived my young life in Illinois, they have some there, but maybe not next to you. Used to be a big F&F customer back then.

UNDER EDIT: Using your zip, TSC site says there's one in Danville and Bloomington.

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Jim Steele
Sweetpea Farms
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." -- Robert Gates

CountryHaven your from Illinois and haven't been in a TSC. Whats a Farm & Fleet? ( LOL ) You must be from the North. At least you have Rural Kings up there? (HEHE) Sorry I could't resist.

We just picked up a full red 100% weaned for $175. There are nice 100% bucks out there for under $250.