First malposition experience

KimM- Sorry you caught the cam when you did. It's quite ironic, too, since my doe delivered about that time, but her doeling was malpresented, and we lost her (the kid). The first kidding that I referred to, was a Boer doe, and I didn't have any trouble (other than being petrified!!) going in and turning the kids and guiding them out. But this doe was a dairy doe, and the kid was so large that there was no room to turn her. Her head was back, and she was born dead. She was an absolutely gorgeous sable baby, with long, lovely ears, and a beautiful round liver spot on her shoulder blades. Very uniquely colored. We are sick about it. : ( But we put the bottle babies in with the momma for some company. She didn't adopt them as we had hoped, but at least she's not trying to kill them... : )

Congrats to you, I am glad you were successful-- it's really scary.

T

Wow, congrats on doing a great job! Wish you lived close to us, this will be the first goat babies ever for us when our nubian ahs ber babies in April.

What are Bo-Se and ND?

I had something that started out like this on Friday but ended a whole lot worse.
The huge buck kid's head was back and every time I finally got it turned forward, and pulled on the feet he would turn it back again!
After much screaming on the doe's part, and Hand-Agony on my part, I got a rope and put a noose around the kid's head to keep it forward while I pulled the legs. This monster was NOT coming out that way tho! NO WAY - had to let the legs go and pull the head out. Then, snagged a leg (BARELY) and pulled him on out - BARELY, once again! He was bigger than my 2 week old kids! He was dead, but I had just seen him moving while I had the head out and no legs so I massaged like crazy and blew into his mouth for awhile.
And he BREATHED!!!!!!!!!!! Woohoooo!!
He is alive and well, although couldnt stand for about 10 hours. Didnt run until this morning! But, the swelling in his legs, and my hands, has gone down so we are both feeling better.
His mama had to be put down by the vet because of the big tear she had on the inside....
I have NEVER felt such pain during a rough kidding - this was only my 4th time to have to help though. Seems like this Boer doe had stronger contractions that my dairy does! My right hand was puffy and swollen for 3 days! Now it's just bruised feeling.

Awww, I'm sorry you lost the kid. I caught a 2 second glimpse right at first but it wouldn't come back on. I saw someone working with her, then I just heard some broken up bleating. I kind of figured you were trying to assist.
Any more of your due?

__________________
Cloven Trail Farm
Lord help me be the person my dog thinks I am!

Ja-Lyn's Radio Flyer, aka "Rad" on his 17th birthday.
9/14/93 -12/3/10.
Rest peacefully my soulmate, I'll love you forever.

Thank you!

Bo-Se is Selenium and Vitamin E, injectable.
ND is Nutri-Drench.
Sorry about that! We need a reference page for all these acronyms and terms!

__________________
Cloven Trail Farm
Lord help me be the person my dog thinks I am!

Ja-Lyn's Radio Flyer, aka "Rad" on his 17th birthday.
9/14/93 -12/3/10.
Rest peacefully my soulmate, I'll love you forever.

Losing a kid is bad enough but losing the doe would be so much worse. Good job saving him though. I keep little ropes washed, boiled and air-dried, in a zip-lock bag in my kidding box for just such reasons.

__________________
Cloven Trail Farm
Lord help me be the person my dog thinks I am!

Ja-Lyn's Radio Flyer, aka "Rad" on his 17th birthday.
9/14/93 -12/3/10.
Rest peacefully my soulmate, I'll love you forever.

Has anyone used a leg snare? I have one but I have never had to used it. The only one I have had trouble with I couldn't get the legs either, so I pulled the head and neck. Baby and mom are great.

__________________
Raising Beautiful Cashmere goats, to produce the best quality cashmere.
www.freewebs.com/sweetgoats
Lori

How hard can you pull on a kid?

The thought of ripping one in 2 or breaking the neck makes me nervous.

They can take a lot, but pulling on the legs is the only really safe way to do it. If you have a head presented with no legs, its best to try and find a leg if at all possible rather than pulling on the head. Sometimes you can push the head back and find a leg, bring it forward and then pull on the leg. One leg and a head is a pretty decent presentation unless the doe is extremely narrow. If the head is already out and no legs are presented, you may have to pull on the head. Be prepared for a dead kid if that is the case, as it does happen. But many times if the head is the only thing outside for any long period of time at all, the kid will be dead or compromised already.
I have had no luck with leg snares, prefering to use my hands if at all possible. Same reason I don't wear gloves for malpresentations, I just can't feel as well and when touch is all you have to go on, its very important. So I just scrub well and dive in.
Kim, you did a great job. Many times the trick to delivering healthy kids and saving the doe is to get in there as soon as you think there might be trouble like you did. If I have a doe who has pushed but doesn't get serious, or pushes out the water bag then starts pawing a lot or getting up and down, but with no serious pushes, I go in and check. This way you may find and correct the problem before the kids or malpresented kid is squashed into the birth canal. working on it before its absolutely jammed in there can mean the difference between a live kid or a dead one, or even losing the doe. So if in serious doubt, CHECK! A doe doesn't even have to show signs of discomfort for there to be a problem. Some will go into labour, push out a water bag, then just start eating, chewing cud, wandering the barn, give half-hearted pushes, etc. If that happens, check. Her body is telling her that something is wrong and not to push yet.
I had a Lamancha doe like that this afternoon. She was obviously in labour, a few little pushes, some strings, laying by herself and nesting. Between little pushes, she was eating, cudding and dozing. After an hour of this with no progress, I went in. Sure enough, right on the other side of the cervical opening were two heads and three feet, trying to come through at once. One was upside down and the other was sideways. After a bit of manipulation, out came two does and a buck. The buck was causing the problem, of course! It was pretty easy finding out which legs belonged to which heads because there was a little room to manuvure. I shudder to think about trying to figure that out if I'd waited till the kids got in the birth canal.
Anyway, great job!!

__________________
Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

Do they have to have Bo-Se and ND? Can I get it at my vet?

Thankfully, we kidded 10 FF this year without a problem. Today I get a call from a friend about 3:00pm. His doe had 3 feet coming out! He is a big guy and couldn't get his hand in there. Some how before I got there he managed to push them back in far enough to get the one past the other. When I got there 2 hooves are sticking out and facing up. He was backwards. I got my hand in there and made sure it was only backwards. Pulled him out but it had been too long. He was almost twice the size of the doe we pulled. At least he saved one baby. This is my friends first year with goats and all of them are FF. We haven't had goats long but pulled lots of calves. Have never seen 3 feet sticking out!

Many don't get it and do okay but then there's some that absolutely do need it. Since most areas are selenium deficient anyway, I figure it's better for them to have it - gives them a jump-start. I consider them essential to have on hand, among other things.

Bo-Se you get from your vet. Nutri-Drench, you can get from most feed/farm stores (TSC).

__________________
Cloven Trail Farm
Lord help me be the person my dog thinks I am!

Ja-Lyn's Radio Flyer, aka "Rad" on his 17th birthday.
9/14/93 -12/3/10.
Rest peacefully my soulmate, I'll love you forever.

I will do that, thanks. I don't want to take any chances.