Line breeding or inbreeding? Knowledgable people, please respond!

Starsmom · #21 01/28/07, 10:14 PM

I've always understood that you can breed a doe back to the father or a buck back to the mother, but NEVER the sister to the brother.

With the mother & son or father & daughter you stand a better chance to get the best of both. But with the sister to brother you have the good & bad of both parents doubled up and that puts you at greater risk of a bad kid.

Jillis · #22 01/28/07, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

With the ADGA genetics site, I bet if you went back far enough in your ND history, you already have linebred goats. I do very little outcrossing of bloodlines in Nubians, all my animals are linebred on certain goats. A new buckling on deposit will hopefully bring me 3 generations in one pedigree to the buck I linebreed on.

But my answer to this question is always the same. If you have to ask the question you do not know enough to be doing this. Be it linebreeding or inbreeding.

Also it's your herd, why the pressure form your friend? If I made this suggestion to you as a friend...because maybe I knew more about the bloodline than you, would come with the reason why I am making the suggestion, you certainly wouldn't have to come to a forum to ask questions. So breed the doe to the buck...leave the closer breeding to when you have had time to research this more. vicki

Yes, I agree, that is how I feel. I do no know enough about it to want to attempt it, especially since I do not show my goats.

My friend wasn't really pressuring me, just kept suggesting it. The doeling she sold me is an exceptional animal, beautiful conformation, absolutely beautiful lavendar chamoisee coat, blue eyes, and frankly, the best personality I've ever observed in any goat. Her sire is an exceptionally beautiful silvery broken chamoisee, and he also has an exceptional personality. I guess she planned this breeding when she still owned Princess, and hasn't quite let go of it yet?

Tracy in Idaho · #23 01/29/07, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsmom

I've always understood that you can breed a doe back to the father or a buck back to the mother, but NEVER the sister to the brother.

With the mother & son or father & daughter you stand a better chance to get the best of both. But with the sister to brother you have the good & bad of both parents doubled up and that puts you at greater risk of a bad kid.

Not at all true, and I have seen some drop-dead gorgeous brother-sister breedings!!

You have to understand, when you are linebreeding that tight, you simply HAVE to be working with superior animals. This isn't something you do with any old goat, unless the only goal is to get the doe in milk.

As has been said over and over again -- you HAVE to be willing to cull and cull hard if defects show up. But like Chamoisee said too, it shows you exactly what is lurking in the animals you're working with.

Tracy

moonspinner · #24 01/29/07, 08:15 AM

Actually, blue eyes are dominant in NDs.

chamoisee · #25 01/29/07, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonspinner

Actually, blue eyes are dominant in NDs.

Really. You can breed two blue eyed animals together and once in a while get a brown eyed one? That is surprising!

dezeeuwgoats · #26 01/29/07, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsmom

I've always understood that you can breed a doe back to the father or a buck back to the mother, but NEVER the sister to the brother.

With the mother & son or father & daughter you stand a better chance to get the best of both. But with the sister to brother you have the good & bad of both parents doubled up and that puts you at greater risk of a bad kid.

That's what I had heard too. Then I heard that Frosty Marvin (nubian) was a sister to brother breeding.

I do line-breed, but am using the experience of both breeders that I have bought from - one of whom suggested I cross the two herds in the first place. They have a combined goat breeding experience between them of 50 years......I figure they know their genetics best. Also, I am not afraid to cull.

Do the breeding you feel most comfortable with. I think either breeding will result in nice kids.

niki

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #27 01/29/07, 01:16 PM

Marvin's dam's mother was also the mother of his sire, they were not full siblings. Marvin was also a first fresheners son, a breeding rarely kept for bucks. So it was two half siblings out of the same dam that were bred together for the breeding. Well from a nearly 50 year old brain anyway. And yes techincally in humans you would call this a brother to sister breeding, but in livestock 1/2 sister to 1/2 brother, its not even considered in breeding. Vicki

Jillis · #28 01/29/07, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamoisee

Really. You can breed two blue eyed animals together and once in a while get a brown eyed one? That is surprising!

Blue Eyes in the Nigerian Dwarf

Here's a good goat color genetics site:
http://members.cox.net/foxcroft/genetics.htm

Quote:

Unlike the case in humans, blue eyes in the goat are dominant. Nigerians aren't the only blue-eyed breed; blue eyes are also reported in the Angora and fainting goat.

Because the blue eyes are dominant, a blue-eyed goat bred to a brown-eyed goat can produce blue-eyed kids. Two brown-eyed goats cannot produce any blue-eyed kids. Let's look more closely at the genetic possibilities for eye color inheritance in goats.

Let's call the gene for eye color Bl. Bl is dominant and codes for blue eye color. bl is recessive and codes for brown eye color. A goat could then have one of three possible genotypes:

Bl Bl- blue eyed

Bl bl- Blue-eyed and carrying the gene for brown eyes

bl bl– brown-eyed

According to the chart that follows the info above, a Blue-eyed only goat can be bred to a Blue-eyed carrying the recessive for brown-eyes and produce a brown-eyed baby.

Go to the site, it is good!

Blessings, Jillis!

chamoisee · #29 01/29/07, 08:32 PM

Okay, but in practical experience, have you had it happen or heard of anyoen who has?

goatkid · #30 01/29/07, 11:41 PM

I have bred a couple of my does back to their sire and they had healthy offspring. A judge said he saw improvement in the kid over her dam. I have now line bred that doeling to my new buck. His great grandsire is the littermate to the doeling's grandmother, so there are alot of other goats in this picture and they aren't too close. What you need to remember is that you can magnify either the negative or positive traits when you breed close relatives.