New babies! More on the way! And a question.
 

We got back from church and I heard a terrible screaming, thought someone was being beat up, ran to go look, and Toria (our mutt goat who we've been waiting on) had a baby fresh out of the oven, a little boy, soon a little girl came too. Then we checked Gabby (boer we've been waiting on) and there's a water bag out. The bag still hasn't bust, and now it kind of looks like three are out, one a dark yellow, one a light yellow, and one red. Is it possible that it's just one folded bag, and if not, which should we push back in? Thanks in advance, bye.

It sounds normal to me. What you're probably seeing is hooves, or hooves and a nose.

O.K. Two babies out, boy and girl, the boy looks like he's not going to make it, he's real limp, and he is having problems breathing, doesn't want to eat. What do I do?

Swing him by the hind legs, and rub him hard with a towel, then force some colostrum into him. If you're online asking though, it's probably too late.

The time to learn this stuff is before you need it.

As cold as it is you need to get him in the house and warmed. Make sure you have gotten all the liquid out of his lungs. I know it may sound strange to swing him but this will help get fluid out of his lungs if he is having trouble breathing. Once he is warm and breathing better, then try to give him the colostrum in a bottle. Dont give up.....Let us know how he does.

All the stuff is out of him, a crap load came out. Thank you, he's died five times now though, my dad keeps bringing him back. He was breathing better though, any advice? From now on our babies will be swung at birth.

Your dad is apparently doing a good job.....like I said before, I only know to try to get him warm and see what happens. Is the doe doing ok? Was the boy born second? Sometimes if they are smaller and second the squeezing through the birth canal isnt as strong as the first one and that is why I think they have more trouble with the gunk in their lungs. I pray he makes it .........just keep doing what you are doing. Suction out good and get warm.....dont try to feed him if he is chilled might go down his lungs. Just be patient and get him breathing and warm.
Lori

He's now died like 3-4 more times, but my dad keeps bringing him back, he was second, but he's bigger than his sister. The problem is is that my dad is the only one that can keep him alive, but he also needs to go and help Gabby, it seems there is a third baby in there, and she's not contracting. We're going to cull Gabby, this is her second time, and she has had nothing but problems, the babies are all posistioned wrong.

Boy died, and this time he's gone. There's defintly another baby in there, but my dad can't get ahold of the legs, he's feeling the side, it's kicking though, so it's still alive.

Sorry to hear the little guy didn't make it; good luck on the rest!

3rd out, little red boy, weird though, he has a lot of black. He has an awful long cord, I just tie it with thread then cut right? I don't know if we have iodine, p.s. mamas clonked out, and the baby got swung, nothing came out, he's fine.

what do you mean the mama is clonked out?? You need to offer her some warm molasis water that will help her with energy. If you have some alfalfa give her some of that too. Yes, after tying just cut. I am sorry the little buckling didnt make it but so glad your dad got #3 out. You and your dad are going to be experts before long.
Good work you two.
Lori

By clonked out I mean she's VERY tired. Personally I hope we don't have to do this any more. Bye.

Good job Goat Freak on getting the last kid out. I am sorry you lost the little guy though thats real hard. You sound like me and my mom. We are a team during kidding time :) . Oh yeah my dad helps to but he just holds the kids. LOL

Sounds like it is a good thing you are culling Gabby...I know I wouldn't want a doe with continual problems :grump: :nono: . Pics??

Oh yes....CONGRATS ON ALL THE KIDS!

MotherClucker

Good job, Goat Freak. It is good that you came to this site for answers, you learned something and so have a lot of others.

It is hard to learn everything BEFORE you have goats or encounter problems you never encountered before. Experience is an excellent teacher, especially with a knowledgeable support system (such as this site) to back you up.

I have friends who have worked with animals their entire lives and are very, very knowledgeable. They have saved valuable animals that vets have been wrong about...recently, they themselves encountered a situation they never saw before and almost couldn't believe could happen.

My friend who raises Nigies had a doe that last year had what the vet said was an abcess on her belly. Not CL. It was treated and she has seemed to be fine for a year. Last week, my friend was checking over all the animals and when she touched the does belly her hand got some wet, smelly stuff on it. She investigated and it was partially digested grain and hay!

The doe has been living for almost a year with a hole in her abdomen going directly into her digestive system. What was diagnosed the year before as an abcess was actually an infected puncture wound! An easy mistake to make, as puncture wounds can be very deceptive. She almost lost the doe last year.

She called our friends (the very knowledgable ones) in at first to help her irrigate the "abcess" per her vet's phone instructions, and she told them what she had found. They didn't believe it until they saw it. The doe went to the vet for a surgical repair.

So, you can't learn everything, whether rare or common, beforehand. Don't let anyone put condemnation on you. Keep up the good work! Blessings on your new little ones.

Thanks guys, the little boy is standing a bit now, not much, he lays right back down after about 10-20 seconds. They both just had half an ounce, and they had around 2-3 ounces last night, is it enough? THe mother hasn't passed the after birth yet, what do we do to get it out, or will it be ok to wait for it to drop, it's been the same since last night, so we're afraid it won't come out. Thanks again, bye.

We did a search on the net, and it said to give the mama LA 200, how much do we give her?

The afterbirth can take up to 24hrs. If not by tonight you will need to get a shot of oxytocin from the vet. When I have to pull babies I do a uterine flush. I take 10cc or so of La 200 and some sterile or distilled water in a 60cc syringe without the needle and flush it inside her. Then we give pennicillin for 5 days as a precaution. The babies should be drinking more than an oz but I have seen it where they will only take 2oz but I would offer it up every 2 hrs. Make sure it is warm and if they refuse the nipple, use your fingers and squeeze open their mouths and put the nipple in. If you tickle their bottoms this will usually make them suck (like mom would do) or cover their eyes as you put the nipple in their mouth. This works for us. They should start standing more. At first they are very wobbly. How are their navels? You may want to use the alcohol a few times in the day to help it dry up.
Lori

GoatFreak...you and your dad did a great job! Sorry you lost one kid..but if you hadn't helped her..you may well have lost all of them. So congrats!!

And sixstrothers..you did a great assist. I was watching this thread when it started. Almost posted..but due to criticism lately..held off posting. I am sooo glad that you were here for them!! Or I would have had to have tried to help anyway.

Criticism? This same poster has posted about several problems (including the inability to find a vet, when large animals vets are plainly available in her area doing a simple google search) that any new goat owner should at least have some knowledge of before breeding a bunch of goats - like the signs of labor and common kidding problems. Basic supplies that should be common knowledge aren't available, like iodine. Many of you can take that as criticism, but try to have some concern for the animals that end up with owners who don't know anything about them. There are plenty of free resources available online that list the kinds of things new goat owners should be aware of. Its not my responsibility, or the responsibility of ANY poster on this site to make up for the shortcomings of any livestock owner. I have posted plenty of advice (to this poster) in other threads, only to be answered with "we don't have that, we don't know how to do that, do I stick it up the goats hole?" If that's criticism, so be it. I do hope this goat owner considers her management of the animals she's responsible for before she decides to get anymore. Waiting until your mid crisis, and then going on line and begging for help DOES concern me.

You do have the option of not responding at all. She asked for help when she needed it and there were ppl willing to help. If you aren't one of them, that is fine.

Doc..if your answer is aimed at me..

Getting after someone in the midst of a crisis is no help at all. Now if you want to come back .. like now..after the crisis is over and take someone to the woodshed..I guess that's up to you.

LOL..we don't ALWAYS have to type everything that pops into our heads. Hey..it's almost Christmas..peace and good will to men...and goat owners having problems!!

I have to say this..........just because they may not have known what to do or had the right supplies, according to you DocM, doesnt mean they should not raise animals or ask for help. I am no expert and do not always have all the supplies I need on hand....but this in no way makes me or any other person not a good goat owner or any other animal owner. Goatfreak cared enough about her animals to seek help and guidance from fellow goat owners. I dont think we have these lists to be critized or talked down to because we are asking for help. That is the main reason these lists are made.....TO SEEK ADVICE OR HELP...when you do not know of have not experienced the situation. I have learned alot from this list and hope that I can help someone else with my experiences. Geez, Christmas is the season to be jolly.....Peace on earth goodwill towards men.......But sometimes someone needs to take up for the little people that are getting stomped on. If you look at the profile for goatfreak, you would see she is a 15 yr old girl with alot of love in her heart for her goats. Goatfreak you and your dad ......keep up the good work. My first yr in goats, I didnt know anything. I had to assist in all but two goats, with their kiddings. Without the help of a wonderful lady on hdg911, I would not have known what to do nor would I have had the great out come that I had. So thanks to all of you brave enough to step out and help us people who dont know all there is to know about goats.

Lori

I agree Lori..
 

I have been in jams..too many to count..and this board and others like it have been a Godsend to me. She is young person..but ya know what? I wasn't when I got into goats..lol..and I needed help too.

I'm not sure what is going on on this board. But it is not real condusive to coming here. I mean ya take your chances. And I think one thing is..people don't fully read the posts..they skim it..take offense..and blast. Ah well, I am just glad that the board is still here..lol..as I STILL need/want help and/or information.

And alas..I agree that people need to stand up for those getting creamed on here. LOL..I was in recovery from the last two weeks..but I seem to be able to post on here again.

Just biding my time .. waiting on goat babies to come out into this frigid weather! :dance:

Oh okay, then everyone who doesn't know anything about goats should just get some and learn by experience. Yeah. Is that what you propose as a good idea?

What does being 15 have to do with it? I have four teens myself, and they are sure capable of going after information when they need it. They're all older than 15 now, but they knew enough to have iodine on hand then. There are plenty of books and programs available, like 4H. And of course, as a parent, I probably wouldn't encourage them to get a bunch of goats if they weren't prepared to own and take care of them responsibly.

I'm all for encouraging and helping people - but there's a limit to how much tolerance anyone "needs" to have when it's obvious that an awful lot of common sense preparation hasn't been done. Why help those who refuse to help themselves?

My hope is that this young lady realize she's NOT prepared to care for her herd - she doesn't even have a VET - and takes some drastic steps to correct those management problems before any more animals suffer her (not small) lack of knowledge.

There's a huge difference is not knowing a few things, like how to dose an animal for a specific or uncommon disease, and not knowing to dab iodine on the umbilical cord.

But of course, I'm just an elitist breeder, what do I know.

Thanks and I am waiting for the goat babies to arrive here too. Mine are due Dec 15, 22, 23.........great Christmas presents.

Lori

Guess what??? I dont have a vet! Does this mean I can not take care of my animals? No, it does not. I have 4 teenagers also and I felt that telling you she was 15, would make you realize that she is learning and taking care of her herd. She has a wonderful Dad, who has been there helping her also. Do you know for sure that she didnt have iodine on hand or possibly that she ran out and it being in the night, couldnt go and purchase more???? Your assuming quit alot from the posts you have read.

Question for you.....Eltist breeder??? Here is the definition of eltist: Elitism is a belief or attitude that an elite— a selected group of persons whose personal abilities, specialized training or other attributes place them at the top of any field (see below)— are the people whose views on a matter are to be taken most seriously, or who are alone fit to govern. Thus elitism sees an elite as occupying a special position of authority or privilege in a group, set apart from the majority of people who do not match up with their abilities or attributes. ...

I am sorry to inform you but if this is how you picture yourself, you need to find a bigger pedistool. We may not be eltist breeders, but we love and care for our animals the best that we can. Maybe you need to find a group of people who think like you. Because there are alot of people who need help and advice and that is why they come to this list. Not to be told by someone who doesnt know them that they are not fit to take care of their animals. This of course, is my opinion only.

Lori

hey I have been raising goats for almost 12 years now I research and read all I can. But there is always something I have to learn by experience!

I sell goats to people who know nothing about goats - but I try my best to educate them. That is my job as the breeder.

Stop putting people down and deal with this situation at hand. More bickering goes on in this forum then anywher I have everbeen - even in my house of 5 kids!!!!!

Who's bickering? I'm stating my opinion. You've all stated yours. The girl has at least a couple dead goats - and she's been congratulated for being totally unprepared. Yep, bet she's learned a lot from this experience. She's learned that she can screw up and come here and get a pat on the back. I don't consider "not having a vet" or selling goats to "people who don't know anything about them" something to be genuinely proud of, sorry. And you're all welcome to ignore my posts too. It doesn't bother me in the least. I've already attempted to help this poster in a previous post, even going to the trouble of giving her the phone number of a goat vet in her area. I'm sure that advice was ignored simply because it's easier (and cheaper) to come here and expect all of you to fix it for her. Cheers!

you are one sick minded person I am sorry to say. stay on your high and mighty horse all you want but I stick with what I have said. I say what i mean I and mean what I say.

you can NEVER be TOTALY prepared for what life throws your way. It just isn't that way, sorry I have lived enough to learn that.

Did you ever think that maybe she couldnt afford a vet? There are alot of people out there who just cant do it. Doesnt mean they are not taking your advice, just that you are not the one paying the bill. We all lose goats and sometimes it is beyond our control. I am not ashamed to pat someone on the back if they are willing and trying to help their goats.

Thank you, because I am in that same boat. Vets are way expensive and around here know nothing about goats or large animals.

Technically we know a vet who could help, he's my great uncle, but he lives about 3 hours away, and it's hard to even get in contact with him, my dad's been trying to get ahold of him to see if he can suggest us to any vets that specialize in goats, he already told us of one but she's too far away. My mom's picking up supplies, we ran out of penicilan last time we had to treat a goat. By the way, the little girl ate a little over 2 ounces, but the little boy doesn't seem to want to eat, I'm going to keep trying though, gotta go, bye.

Sometimes if they havent pooped, they will not want to eat. They need to get rid of the tar and go to the yellow color. If she ate alot say the hrs before she just might not be hungry. I have had that happen. Keep trying.

well I think that you are doing well with her. I hope the little guy starts eating good for you. I hate it when they don't want to eat.

She's been drinking, pooping, and peeing like no tommorow, she still can't stand, don't know what's going on there, although we did get her up once, she stayed up for awhile, the boys doing better at standing than her, he's done it more and has stayed up longer. I've tried rubbing his butt with a wet baby wipe to get him to poop, he hasn't done anything yet, but I'm hoping he will. By the way, the little girl already passed the tar poop, at least the really sticky one, not sure what it is now though. Forgot to tell ya'll, the little boy is peeing, just not pooing.

Hey Goatfreak...Are these kids still in on their mom? The reason I ask is..I have had a couple over the years that just plainly would not eat from a bottle. BUT>I put them on mom's teat and kept working till they got some..then they seemed to take right off.

In doing this...I have had to sit quite a while holding the kid to the teat and opening its mouth, inserting teat while squeezing..you get the drift.

It's just a thought..and I hope the little guy comes around soon..and yippee on the little girl doing so well!!

He just may not have ate enough yet. Keep trying to feed him and believe you me he will eventually go. Good luck, let us know how he is doing.

Having a bunch of animals that first, you're not prepared to take care of because you haven't done any research on what to expect or what you may need to keep on hand, and then not being able to afford (a vet) to care for them properly in the event of an emergency. Oh yes, all of this is really responsible behavior.

And I'm the sick one? LOL! Thanks, I needed that laugh.

Gee Doc..wound a little tight on here today..aren't ya? That you have been told the age of Goatfreak..and continue to berate her shows the internet world alot about you.

One..You are mighty important to the goatworld and owners there of.

Two..You have no regard for anyone's feelings.

Three..Maybe you just like to see your words in type.

Four..You do not want to sell to people who are not educated to your liking.

Five..You are a psychic..knowing everything about everybody without them telling you.

Six..You love conflict.

Seven..You usually HAVE to have the last word..no matter what.

Eight..You indeed are an elitess among many of us.

But..I do not doubt your abilities and knowledge of goats. It's the abilities and knowledge of people that seems to be a little shakey today.