Why disbud?

No that sheltie tried awful hard... Just Daisy was bigger. She did get a bite from him, but she then really tried to attack him. Got him twice with her horns real good, he was afraid of goats ever since...
But yes, I understand that if a pack of roving dogs or coyotes did show any interest in my herd, horns woudn't change the fact that I would retain major damage. Horns are my ONLY defence right now, as my dad will probably refuse to allow me two more large dogs as LGD's, no matter the reason.

Seems like I'm the only one who doesn't dissbud, lol. I won't do it because I find it a tad cruel to put a 1000 degree iron on a kid's head just for the sake of convenience and modification of an animal to my liking. I COULD do it, I could stomach it, but I don't need to. I do have a couple little human kids running around here and they haven't been hurt by horns, though his' clothes have been chewed on quite a bit by the goat kids. These are the neibor's children and they are NOT allowed in any pen with the goats without me, or his parents there as supervision. They are NEVER allowed in the buck pen, period.
I've never been hurt by any of my goat's horns, not even my bucks. I also have proper fencing that my horned goats cannot get thier heads stuck in.
I am not saying you shouldn't dehorn because its none of my business what you do, and dehorning is neccesary in some people's cases; such as worry about injury to young children or whatever... But in my case it's not needed and therefore not done. There is literally NO reason for me to dehorn my goats, IMHO.

__________________


Dona Barski

"Breed the best, eat the rest"

Caprice Acres

French and American Alpines. CAE, Johnes neg herd. Abscess free. LA, DHIR.

Iv'e lost too much money with horns.Lower price for brood stock,aborted young from being ramed while head stuck in fence(get even time for the hornless ones).And gouges from horn tips.Barn doors and walls .The old witch just likes to hear splintering wood I guess
I got punched just yeasterday from the only one I didn't disbud this year.He is going to be lunch sooner than I expected
As soon as my replacement does are producing ALL horned are going to the auction, Iv'e had it with horns.
My neighbor had me come up and finish off their horned goat that two mutts ganged up on.No bites around head, but udder chewed off and ham strung.
She ran like any goat, horns or not!
I hate disbudding but I'm doing the herd a favor in the long run!
Chas

Well, I used to raise and show dairy goats... so I learned to disbud, and I did it just fine... that was many years ago.. it wasn't a choice then........

Now we have Boers, and Boer crosses.. the buck kid we bought, has horns.. (he was 3 months old and wild when we bought him...he is now 8 months old, very large, and STILL wild, even tho we tried to gentle him down... his horns are getting very large.. and he is dangerous at this point.. bad enough that he is wild, but wild with horns is not fun to mess with.)

we also had our first buck kid born here this past spring, and my hubby wanted to let him have horns.. and against my better judgement, I did not disbud him...(I disbudded the doe kids.) The buck kid born here is a SWEETHEART, but his horns have hurt us on more than one occasion... a poke in the cheek, or butt when hoof-trimming, (as mentioned earlier.) Of COURSE he doesn't mean to hurt us, but he does, periodically... it just happens... next buck kid we keep, I am disbudding, as well as all of the does..that's just me...

The Final word I have to say about this is.......

You all say how dangerous it is to be around a goat with horns. But it really makes no differance to a preditor. This is getting to be quite circular. The facts should be evident that an animal you consider to be too dangerous would fair better in a fight for it's life. Than a defenceless one.

I bought my first does from a guy who didn't believe in disbudding. Since his buck, though, was naturally polled, we ended up with both. I MUCH prefer the polled goats, and those are the ones I have kept over the years.

While I don't know how useful horns would or would not be with predators, once they come into the barn at night, the horned goats can be quite vicious to the non-horned. I also had one butt my little daughter up against the wall one day, so I had to watch them very closely when she came to the barn with me.

And, my neighbor, who had horned goats, had to go out to his field every evening to rescue the stupid goats with their heads stuck in the fence.

To each his own, but I'm not interested in any more horned goats. I'm glad I sold mine.

mary

I think another thing is for some of us that have regestered stock or show stock in the ADGA they are not supposed to be horned. So that is part of it I am sure thought not all of it in the least.

For me I have been around horned goats and the risks are to great for ME getting hurt not to mention the does them selves. Also goats in the wild have much more area to get away than a goat here does. Almost all goats are penned up. Doesn't matter how much area they have they still are penned. A predator can corner them or just run them down easy if they wanted. Horns won't do much if the dog/predator wants to get to the prey. I am not for sure on this but I swear somewhere I heard that the horns where more to help cooling down than to protect the herd?

I agree with almost everybody here. My goats will run if they see a strange dog. Our dogs they are fine with but a strange dog they will get nervous and not want to be around them. I love my gals and I don't want to have to always be extra careful around them just because of horns.

MotherClucker

__________________
GoldenWood Farm - Breeding ADGA registered La Manchas and Grades
Website: www.goldenwoodfarm.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/gwlamanchas

My Lamancha doe rolled my 40 pound basenji mix and she was disbudded. She is an adult but weighs 80 pounds, hit him hard enough he got a goose egg on his head (he deserved it). If she were horned, she'd have gutted him.

Dairy goats MUST be dehorned for registration and show purposes. Aside from that, there isn't much good reason to keep them intact IMHO, even with the anecdotes of the "pro horn" crowd. BTW, that Lamancha buck is gorgeous, where do you live???? I'm asking for the girls, of course .

We goat owners have taken on the responsibility of providing protection for the goats in the absense of horns, which in this discussion seem too troublesome for managed herds. If we take something away, we have to give back. It's just part of stewardship. All my pens are literally within 75 ft of the house, all the animals freerange (in a tight circle around the house itself, *sigh*) with three dogs, me always home and a perimeter fence around the property. My goats don't need horns.

__________________
It may be that our sole purpose in life is simply to be kind to others.

I did not say this. I do not consider a horned goat seriously "dangerous". I disbudd mine for other reasons, as I have stated. That can be *a* reason for some people. There is a huge difference between a horned goat being "dangerous" around children because they aren't careful how they swing their heads, and a dog or other predator who is going after the goat to kill it.
I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't have horned goats......I just think it should be an informed, personal decision.

__________________
Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

I THINK goats are easyer to hold on to with horns Also a farm down the road from Me has a buck that has killed dogs

I disbud because that is my choice.

__________________
I am a friend of God, He calls me friend.

Lois Blackburn
Powell, Wyoming

Dona, just to let you know, the disbudding is not really cruel. The pain lasts for only seconds, as the nerve endings are killed immediately. Once the nerve endings are dead, there is no pain.

Were you only asking rhetorically? Or just looking for everyone to agree with you? Many experienced and knowledgable people gave excellent, sensible reasons to disbud goats. Hopefully our domestic animals, both pets and livestock will be provided adequate protection from predators---in the form of good fencing, housing, electric wires, LGD's, and so on.

No one was looking for an argument, so why respond as if it is one? [Re: this is getting to be quite circular]

Members did what you asked---they responded to your question. Most didn't agree with you. I don't mind continuing the discussion of the pros and cons of disbudding, and I wouldn't even if I was in the minority. JMHO.

That was a good point about mixed horns/hornless in a herd. I have found the horned ones quickly discover they have a weapon and lord it over the hornless ones. For me, holding onto horns of bucks tends to make them more ornery. Then again, I raise mine for pet/show and milk. Other reasons may make horns not that much a factor.

You are totally right on this. The two LaMancha's I looked at this week had 2 inch spikes. The lady did not disbudd. I didn't want to purchase them with horns and to have them dehorned would have possibly cost me $50 each! I wasn't willing to spend that on top of the goats price-although the seller was really nice in offering a little discount if I had to pay to have them dehorned, but it wasn't enough to sway me to buy. Turns out the lady is getting them done for me for free under her herd health management and so I will indeed buy them. I won't have horned goats.

__________________
Every time you smile at someone, it is an action of love, a gift to that person, a beautiful thing. ~Mother Teresa

The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages, stanb999.

__________________
Abby
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unless life also hands you sugar and water, your lemonade is going to suck.

A goat with horns has a different personality than a goat without horns. They learn that they can get away with things that a hornless goat can't. Yes, this is a generalization, but tends to be true. Hornless goats are generally milder in temperment and less ornery. JMHO.

__________________
Diane Rhodes
Feral Nature Farm
LaManchas, MiniManchas and Boers

OK.

I'm sorry if my answers offended anyone. I just feel it's better to leave an animal with what god gave them. I didn't know their would be so many hard feelings about this. I also think that it's insane that a horned "dairy" goat can't be shown. But what do I know. We keep'em to milk and eat.

No hard feelings here at all. Everyones got their own way of doing things.

__________________
Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

What she said!