Question on Blood Discharge & Strange Behavior
 

Hi - Rose who is due to kid March 4th is acting a little off and I noticed that she was peeing a dark color and then straining some, then we saw her "pee" - it was bloody and clear, sticky stretchy some just hanging there... then a few minutes later she started licking it up off the stall floor, really intent on doing it, and just kept licking it up till it was gone

Any ideas?

I am going to get a temp....

To me, & maybe someone else can chime in, it sounds like she's aborting her pregnancy.

If she's not due until March, it sounds like birth fluids that she's passing. That would be why she's so intent on cleaning them up.

I know my girls clean up after a birth, so they'd do the same, even if they were aborting, I'd wager.

Tricia

Sorry, I think that she is aborting, we have a doe that had a miscarriage just a few days go and that is EXACTLY what she was doing, and then we foound the dead not fully formed baby. Sorry, bye.

I agree. You might take a look around and see if you can find a fetus or a blob of goo (if it had been partially absorbed it might not be a discernable body). If you can obtain any of the tissue you might could have it tested for chlamydia or Toxoplasmosis or some of the other things that can cause abortion in goats. Many things can cause abortion, nutrition problems, disease or even getting butted by another goat. Sorry.

Well, she is pawing at the ground, looking at her rear, and releasing a little fluid every now and then, contracting some and laying down a lot - would she have these signs if she were aborting?

Is there any chance she could have gotten bred soooner than you thought? She might be at full term and getting ready to kid.

haven't seen any tissue, fetus, just little amounts of clear & blood every now and then...

Well, I guess there is always the possibility.... just really didn't think so...

It sounds like she is in labor from the discription you gave, I am wondering if maybe she did get bred a little earlier than you thought, was their any way the buck could have got her sooner?

My first guess too would be miscarriage or perhaps something wrong with the pregnancy. I'm not equipped beyond abortion to comment really. But it doesn't sound normal.

Well, they are goats - where there is a will, there WILL be a way... I just didn't think they got together early, my husband wondered the same you did, that our cute boy got ahold of Rose early. I guess time will tell.

How long has she been doing this? It sounds a lot like late stage labor. I'd keep a very close eye on her, as she may need your help.

bout 2 pm today she started dripping some, then laying down around 3-4 till n ow, now it's eery so often while she is resting, she gets up paws, lays down and will push contract a little - she seems mostly content, not too stressed though

Well, I don't know, discouraged, thinking it is probably her miscarrying b/c she is still laying down and contracting but she is passing blood, some is a little clotty - so I don't think this could possibly be her in labor could it? Would blood come first?

If she is still doing this tomorrow I think I would call a vet, she might need some help, is she passing alot of blood?

Sweetie, it is TIME! You need to screw up your courage, dump some iodine all over your hand and forearm, and gently GO IN THERE and have a feel around! You don't want your goatie-girl to die, do you? Don't be scared, but be VERY concerned, and concentrate!

I just went through this, and the "hold up" was a back-wards buckling tangled up with his sister. I just pushed her little head back in and grabbed his hind feet and he slid right out. BUT, if I hadn't, I would've lost BOTH kids and possibly momma!

BE Brave! You CAN do this!

Praying for you, -Jill

But she is hardly dialated?! Maybe an inch opening - I should go in?

How do you know her dialation?? Have you already slipped some fingers in? The OUTSIDE of her vagina will NOT "open" until there is a baby there pushing it. And if something is wrong with the position of the baby, YOU need to reach in there to find out what it is.

You won't be able to feel the cervix until most of your hand is in there, and, if she's not yet dilated, that's OK....at least you know.

key, gotcha - we are going to check now....

I think Jill just made an excellent call-please come back and tell us what is happening.

Before you go in, clip your nails short on the hand you will be using (your best hand). Scrub very well. Then if you have some KY jelly, lube up. If not, go in slowly, allowing her to provide the lubrication. You'll likely need to tie the doe or get someone to hold her head. All my does have tried to run away when I did this.

When you go in, position your hand so that all your fingertips are touching your thumbtip. Then, as you get inside, make your hand as narrow as possible, keeping your thumb stretched forward against your palm and your fingers tightly together. Just think how it would feel to you, and the right thing will come naturally. If her cervix is too tight, I'd call a vet. She may need a shot to relax her cervix. All the times I've gone in, it's been scary, but relatively easy. Go in, have a feel around, and see what you find. Use your hand to guard against hooves pushing against the uterine wall when you're repositioning. That wall is VERY thin at delivery and can easily be ruptured, resulting in a dead doe or a big vet bill.

Oh, yeah. If a kid is positioned badly and you need it to go back inside, you can push it gently, but it helps A LOT to get the doe to stand up, and then go down on her front knees, keeping her back end in a standing position. Again, you can hopefully get someone to help you achieve this, but I've done it on my own, too, so it can be done. Anything she's pushing out will practically fall back inside when she's in that position, and you'll have lots of room to work. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

put my whole hand in the doe to do this right?

Yes, VERY slowly and carefully- read the last post by Laura- she tells you how to smutch your hand up into a cone and keep your fingers soft while you slide into her vagina. just slowly massage your way in there, and concentrate on what you're feeling- is it hooves? a nose? When you find something, try to determine if it's right-side-up? (smooth side of the feet, or bumpy, like the back of feet?)

I have been in all the way to my forearm, to reposition the twins who were tangled up.

OK, she has passed a little bone - maybe 3/4 - 1" long, like an arm or leg bone, and something that looks like an ear? maybe 3/8ths" long Does this coincide with a near 3 month old kid/fetus, She according to my calculations is about 3 months along.... so do you think this would be her aborting? More blood too...

O.K., at this point, we need to concentrate on saving your doe; now, it does sound like a miscarriage.

How is she doing? What types of medicines do you have? If she were mine, my choices would go like this:

1st choice, call the vet.
2nd choice, give Oxytocin and Banamine
3rd choice, camp out with her in the barn, hug her, and pray.

Somebody else, jump in here, please, I don't know any more! :-(

I don't think I can get hold of a vet and we have absolutely no money for a vet visit - just too much going on right now. Is there any human medicine or other alternatives I could give her - I feel so bad for her....

I'm confused. Can't the doe have a mc without the vet?

whats mc? miscarriage?

Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. I know there is a *chance* of infection, but that sounds over cautious to freak out that this point. It seems like her body is doing what it needs to do right now. I'd be concerned if she kept getting worse, even after passing a significant amount of tissue.

outofmire, I'm concerned about the "parts" she's passing- it means the fetus is partially decomposed, right? that means the momma doe is extremely susceptible to infection, right? Could be I'm wrong, but this doe has been at this ALL day, and from what the owner says, has passed and is passing copious amounts of blood.... It's just more than I am capable of giving the best advice on......(which is why I called in the Calvary!!)

Besides, what could a vet do besides give antibiotic and do a scraping and removal? You can give an antibiotic yourself, and the scraping and removal (D&C) isn't really necessary if her body is doing it itself.

I would say vet or loose the goat. I don't know your vet but our livestock vet is very cheap, it only cost us 35.00 for him to pull two kids from my doe, plus a bottle of pennicillin. Her kids were nearly dead and if someone hadn't pulled them all three wouldn't be here right now. Vets aren't coldhearted, maybe you could work something out with yours. Or do you know an experienced goat person nearby?

I think she has every right to be concerned right now, this doe needs help now from everthing I have read. Infection sets in very fast, and the parts she is passing has me very concerned also.

What is her temp?

well, I LOVE my goats, I wont bother to explain how much b/c you all know what it is like.
It's just I have a choice here - pay for the vet or pay for my husband's chemo treatment, there is no extra money - only $35 is all perspective.... I wish I had it for her.

I have penicillin and CD/T - would either of these be good? How much, how often, etc, etc

I think that may be a little overstated. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it doesn't take a vet to pull those kids out. You could do it yourself. You can give penicillin yourself. If her body is expelling the fetus, she may do fine on her own. Especially if that's the only choice goatladie has.

Thank you homebirtha, this is the kind of help I need since it is my only option.
What was said hit me as harsh as I just lost all the hopes of having our first kids and now we can only pray for Rose... I am sure it wasn't meant to be said hurtfully I am sure.

Ok, the penn is good, no need for CD&T it won't help, is she still passing "parts"?

OK, how much blood are we talking about here. Of course, you're going to have amniotic fluid as well, and there could be some blood in that. So, estimating the amount of actual blood, are we talking about maybe 1/4 cup, or a pint or more? If you can't tell, take a measuring cup, fill it with milk, and pour it on the ground. It always looks like more than it is.

If she's passing parts, are they stinky, or just partially reabsorbed? If stinky, she should have an antibiotic. If they're just partly reabsorbed and not stinky, she's probably going to be just fine.

If she's only losing a little blood, she's just doing some internal cleansing, which is a good, healthy thing to do. If she's losing a lot of blood, she's hemorrhaging, and has a poor prognosis.

Keep us posted.