Baby Goat back to messy poops...what to do now?

Um, how do they get cuds when they don't have people doing this switcheroo thing?

LOL - sorry, no chain yanking ***---- ---- ----***

Farm-store Probios has some common gut bacteria, but not much of the highly perishable RUMEN bacteria that are so important.

A cud looks like a wad of oozy green stuff with small fibrous grassy pieces in it. It's about the size of a golf ball(ish) - you can see them cud when they poof their cheeks out and chew. I hate to say, it is a bit more disgusting than a wad of gum - but I tell myself I can always wash my hands. In all reality, I'm willing to put up with quite a bit of eeeeeewwww to help my critters. In the grand scheme of things, a bit of squeamishness on your part can really put them behind in their growth - and you get over it pretty quickly.

They may be cudding already, but they may need a little help with the right bacteria to make sure their cudding and digestion is as effective as it needs to be. Live bacteria is what they need.

Usually, goats will populate their rumen by just being in their environment with other, older goats. But, sometimes they need a little help - the sooner the better. If they continually have diarrhea or fewer nutrients because of a lack of bacteria, they don't grow as well. If they were under stress because of a coccicial load, then that can impair their natural transfaunation. Antibiotics kill good bacteria as well as bad bacteria - so helping them along with probiotics whenever you dose them is a good idea.

I'm all for trying the transfaunation. It soooo does help the little ones.

Cheers!

Katherine

Blue Oak Ranch

{{{shudder}}}

Big sigh.

I'll go get my barn gloves.

Last year I had a couple kids I did have to treat twice for cocci. Are you giving this as a drench or in the water or how? It could just be a stubborn case you've got. Will be interested to see how the fecal comes out.

One thing I learned about cud is that it smells REALLY REALLY bad, and my goats NEVER let me grab aby, they swallow as soon as I stick my hand in, and I needed it for a little baby too, but he is fine now though.

I would really suspect the milk replacer to be a big part of the problem. The first year I had kids, I fed them replacer and we had lots of problems with scours and tummy aches. Some of this was bacterial. I know. I got cryptosporidium from them. Good thing is that people get immune once they have had it. I think some of the kids got coccidiosis as well. I have not used replacer since this time and have not had a kid scour that couldn't be fixed in a day or two with Spectam Scour Halt. I feed my kids something called goat developer pellets that are made in Great Falls, MT. They have a coccidiostat.

goatkid, what is cryptosporidium, what are the symptoms, and what is the treatment, if any? Thanks!
Also, what is Spectam Scour Halt? I've never heard of it!
moonspinner, they seem a lot better already. Not all of them are affected, just about 4 of the 10, mostly the 2 white LaManchas, the 1 white Saanen, and one of the mostly Alpine crosses---one that is light in color, as a matter of fact...I did wonder if their breed or coloring (as it related to other possibly genetic factors) might be affecting their susceptibility...

Part of the problem is watering down replacer...don't water it down...reduce the amount of replacer you are giving them...watering it down is causeing part of the "poop problem" you are getting their water out of balance in their system. You are basically reducing the ability for the replacer to curd..which it isn't good at anyway. Since it hasn't been long since you treated them for cocci I would get some Biosol or oral Neomycin sulfate(generic Biosol) and treat them for 7-10 days to be sure that you are not dealing with E.coli.
I would also give them probios, you are not going to see alot of cudding at this age but it sure helps to have the bacteria there to help digest food

(I sell the generic Biosol BTW)

__________________
Sharon Miller
Vanity Caprine LaManchas
www.vanitycaprine.com
Taking reserves on 2007 kids.
M & S Supply-Pet and Livestock supplies
www.m-ssupply.com

I don't know...the problem started before I started watering down ther replacer...it's barely watered down at all still...
E Coli, hmmmm...I really better get their poop cultured, I guess...

Cryptosporidium is a bacteria which causes diarreah in young goat kids. It can also be found in contaminated water. In baby goats, they scour and lose their appetite. In people, you get a fever and diarreah that doesn't go away in 24 hours like tummy things usually do. It affects the small intestine. I felt just awful, like a real bad stomach flu. The only thing that kept me from spending the day on the toilet was Immodium AD. I had a very poor appetite and lost weight (in my case, I needed to lose some weight, but I wouldn't recommend this way). By the time the doctor figured out what was wrong, about 10 days, I was well on the mend. He said there was really nothing more they could have done for me anyway, this just has to resolve itself with the use of Immodium and drinking lots of fluids.
Spectam Scour Halt is a liquid medication made for piglets to stop bacterial scours. It is available in the feed stores, at least in Montana. I used to work on a friend's commercial dairy and this is what we used on kids with scours. I find it usually works well. If I have a baby with bad scours or an older kid with diarreah which hasn't resolved itself in 24 hours, a dose of this usually does the trick within a day or two. I like it because the bottle has a pump which squirts measured doses into the kid's mouths.

I know this wasn't suggested in the previous post, but just in case anybody gets the wrong idea -

Immodium should never be used to control diarrhea in goats. It stops the peristaltic action of the rumen and gut, a condition that can kill them quickly.

Use the medications made for animals, like the Scour Halt suggested.

Cheers!

Katherine

Blue Oak Ranch

Using probiotics on goats with diarrhea (esp. kids), particularly during and after antibiotic treatment, worming or changes in feed or environment, helps reestablish a friendly gut flora and maintains normal rumen function. You can also give yogurt or kefir since yogurt/ kefir have the same live cultures (good bacteria). It also HAS to say 'LIVE' or 'ACTIVE' cultures on the carton of yogurt/kefir.

When I get new goats who develop diarrhea (stress related from transport, illness etc.) they get probiotics immediately. Diarrhea disappears within a day or two. If you give them pepto, scour halt etc. you are only treating the symptoms, not the cause. Even in cases of E-coli, the 'good bacteria' in the rumen need to far outnumber the pathogens to maintain good rumen flora.

Some probitotics you can use to top dress their feed ration.

Granulated/powder probiotics
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/...=2&pf_id=16561

http://www.healthworks-solidgold.co...uct.asp?sku=FT5

http://www.healthworks-solidgold.com...sp?sku=FTG20CC

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/...&pf_id=0029521

Thank you! I got some probiotics. I couldn't get the cud. My goats are now very suspicious of me.
"Transfaunation" sounded kinda metaphysical to me, anyway. I don't mess with that magic stuff...

Anyway, once I started the Sulmet, it started clearing up. I may keep them on for a full week this time. I am also giving probiotics. I tried just the probiotics for 36 hours, but it wasn't helping, so I went to the Sulmet.

They are all just so cute...sigh...

Anyway, once I started the Sulmet, it started clearing up.

If the probitoics didn't clear it up, then they must have a load of coccidia. That can definitely cause scours! Sulmet is used in the treatment of coccidiosis and here is some info as far as dose.

Straight from the bottle; do not mix with water.

Dose:

Give Orally - Administer straight into the mouth using a syringe (remove the needle). Do not just add it to the kid's water because you will not know if he receives the correct dose. Do not add it to his milk because the milk effects the potency of the drug.

Five day treatment- you must treat the full five days.
Day one: 1 ml per 5 pounds- given orally.
Days 2-5: 1 ml per 10 pounds- given orally.

They can still benefit from probiotics and they may be helpful in getting the animal back to normal, so you might want to continue with that regimen until after the diarrhea is gone.

Thanks, that's just what I'm doing!