Abcess on goat?

Misty · #21 12/25/05, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazygoatgirl

I must add that if you choose to use the CL vaccine your animals WILL develop abcesses from the vaccine and they will also ALWAYS test positive for CL.
I send CAE and CL tests to WSU(washington State University) the link is
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/caefaq.asp to find out more about how to prepare samples. I pull my own blood, it is not necessary to have a vet pull the blood.
I have also used Pan Am Vet lab in Texas.

I do not know this for sure but, I have heard that if you want a negative test to sell a goat to send it to the university in TX, so user beware...

I have NEVER had a lump from the vaccine. Someone forgot to tell my goats!! They will have + titers.

ozark_jewels · #22 12/25/05, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazygoatgirl

I must add that if you choose to use the CL vaccine your animals WILL develop abcesses from the vaccine and they will also ALWAYS test positive for CL.

I know of several Boer herds(200+ head) that vaccinate all their does and bucks for CL and none get lumps. Also, the lab is supposed to be able to tell the difference in the blood of a doe that has been vaccinated, and a doe that has CL itself. Something to do with high and low titers...or something like that. I don't vaccinate so don't know a whole lot about it, just what I have learned in passing from other people.
Also there are two different types of vaccinations for CL. One is for goats who have CL already. It is supposed to suppress the abscesses and stop them from popping out on a goat. Thus they could slowly irradicate it from their herd. The other, more commonly used vaccine for CL is just to guard against them getting CL at all. I don't believe either one causes abscesses.

susanne · #23 12/25/05, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

I Also, the lab is supposed to be able to tell the difference in the blood of a doe that has been vaccinated, and a doe that has CL itself.
Also there are two different types of vaccinations for CL. One is for goats who have CL already. It is supposed to suppress the abscesses and stop them from popping out on a goat. Thus they could slowly irradicate it from their herd. The other, more commonly used vaccine for CL is just to guard against them getting CL at all. I don't believe either one causes abscesses.

unfortunatly the lab can not tell the difference between vaccinated or previous exposed to the corny bacterium. they are able to tell if there is an active process( high titer) or at some point in their lives where exposed either through vaccine or the bacterium itself.
there are different kind of vaccines. the most effective vaccine in my opinion is the one that are developed from the bacterium strain in a herd that has cl. this will prevent the building of an abcsess. how reliable it is? i don't know.
this would be the choice only for breeder with very valuable animals.

it would never be my choice because i do test for cl and i want a clean test result even if this will never be 100% sure

ozark_jewels · #24 12/25/05, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

unfortunatly the lab can not tell the difference between vaccinated or previous exposed to the corny bacterium. they are able to tell if there is an active process( high titer) or at some point in their lives where exposed either through vaccine or the bacterium itself.
there are different kind of vaccines. the most effective vaccine in my opinion is the one that are developed from the bacterium strain in a herd that has cl. this will prevent the building of an abcsess. how reliable it is? i don't know.
this would be the choice only for breeder with very valuable animals.
it would never be my choice

My info says different, but since I have no personal experience with it, I guess it is just hearsay so I will say no more.
It would never be my choice either as I do not vaccinate.

goatkid · #25 12/25/05, 06:54 PM

You can put your pregnant doe in another pen and blood test her for CL in a couple of months. If she's negative, I would suggest retesting her prior to your show season. When your vet is testing for CL it wouldn't hurt to do a CAE test, too. We usually do both to cover all bases.

**mygoat** · #26 12/25/05, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caren

What about my pg doeling Maggie? I had her bred to a Nigerian dwarf to get 3/4 ND kids so my people kids can take them to fair. she isn't anymore than a week along. Can they still take the kids to fair?

I'm tempted to take Abby back to the guy I bought her from. I hate the thought of shooting her. But I can't send her to another home so the disease can spread.

I have to think if Maggie now and her babies. How long before I could get another goat? I'm thinking of culling almost all of my chickens and moving the ducks and a hand full of chickens in with Maggie for companion animals; are they compatable?

Thanks
Caren

I wouldn't sell back to the guy, you don't know if he would sell her again to someone else. I'd hate to be in your position, all of my goats are pets. Send in a sample for testing, and also test the doeling.
Wait, did you say the man vaccinated for CL? Then would't she always test positive, no matter what? Would the lump be at the injection site or does it show up where it did? It may just be from the vaccine...

ozark_jewels · #27 12/25/05, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Would the lump be at the injection site or does it show up where it did? It may just be from the vaccine...

The lump was under the ear, prime CL site but not an injection site. The only reason the vaccine would give the doe a lump is if it was a faulty vaccine and actually gave the doe CL. The regular vaccine does not give the does lumps. If it did, what would be the point of a vaccine??

Caren · #28 12/25/05, 10:52 PM

Actually I was thinking more of taking Abby up and dropping her off. Is the situation as dire as I have been led to believe. Where can I learn more about the vaccinations for CL. I'll NEVER buy another goat that has no proof of the vaccine. These goats are we loved pets. now I have suddenly had to dry abby off seperate her from her best friend and I terrified to love on her at all. (She loves hugs and kisses).

I'm open for suggestions

Caren · #29 12/26/05, 02:19 PM

I took Abby back this morning. I hated to do it but I think It would've broke my heart to shoot her. I just couldn't do it. I didn't expect to get my money back but they did. Said they were sorry she didn't work out for me....I still want to cry. I'm sure she's going to be someone's dinner. The people said they have a truck load of goats going out on Wenesday.

Thank you for all your help and advise. This has been a heartbreaking learning experience.

Caren

moonspinner · #30 12/26/05, 05:28 PM

I feel so awful for you. We've all had heartbreak with our animals at one time or another and this situation is particularly wrenching. Just know we all care here and we're thinking of you.

ozark_jewels · #31 12/26/05, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caren

I took Abby back this morning. I hated to do it but I think It would've broke my heart to shoot her. I just couldn't do it. I didn't expect to get my money back but they did. Said they were sorry she didn't work out for me....I still want to cry. I'm sure she's going to be someone's dinner. The people said they have a truck load of goats going out on Wenesday.
Thank you for all your help and advise. This has been a heartbreaking learning experience.Caren

Caren, I am so sorry.............

Hugs for you......

crazygoatgirl · #32 12/26/05, 11:14 PM

Caren,
I am sorry this is such a bad way of a learning experience!! I would not totally thow out the idea of buying a doe that has not been vaccinated for CL. I would suggest that you have the prospective animals blood tested to be ure they are negative for CAE and CL. CL vaccine will give them titers to test positive...and I may be mean but, positive to me is positive...no room for question on is it a vaccine positive or is it a true positive...
I hate that you and so many other folks have to go through this because folks are jsut not concious as to what they are doing they are just breeding goats like a dang puppy mill with no thought except $$$$.

OK I am stepping down now.

Caren · #33 12/27/05, 02:12 AM

The vet I spoke to said there is no true vaccine for CL in goats. Apparently people use sheep vaccine on goats thinking it will work but it doesn't. It just creates more problems. So I'm back to square one.

Caren

Misty · #34 12/27/05, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caren

The vet I spoke to said there is no true vaccine for CL in goats. Apparently people use sheep vaccine on goats thinking it will work but it doesn't. It just creates more problems. So I'm back to square one.

Caren

Colo Serum makes one. You can also use the contents from lumps in your own herd and have it made. I can't remember just who right now..Pfizer maybe? That is called autogenous. I believe your vet is wrong. Very wrong. I vaccinate, have been to my cousin's to work goats who has CL in her meat herd, and I have never once had a break out. I used the autogenous from Coni Ross' herd. I have discovered many many vets don't know squat about goats. They always think they do. I just smile, tell mine thank you and call Coni. I get what I need one way or another.

ozark_jewels · #35 12/27/05, 07:21 AM

Caren, there are plenty of good clean herds out there that do not vaccinate and do not have CL. I prefer to buy from clean, unvaccinated herds actually. Nothing against anyone who vaccinates just my feelings on the matter. So keep looking for what you want. And there is a vaccine made for goats now.....I do believe it is custom made..??

Misty · #36 12/27/05, 08:25 AM

yes, that is the autogenous vaccine. They make it from actual CL abcesses from goats.

susanne · #37 12/27/05, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckshotboers

yes, that is the autogenous vaccine. They make it from actual CL abcesses from goats.

a link would be nice

susanne · #38 12/27/05, 08:32 AM

http://www.phlassociates.com/phl_-_g...ccine_info.htm

Caren · #39 12/27/05, 06:03 PM

How would I get a hold of Coni Ross? Is she connected to this forum some how? I don't really have a heard of goats just Maggie and Abigail. Now it's just Maggie.

I don't know what to do for a companion animal for Maggie. I'm afraid to buy another goat and bring her in to the farm. Someone Pm me and said that Cl incubates for 6 months. In the mean time I have a PG doeling and no companion animal for her.

Thanks Keep the advise comming!

Caren

susanne · #40 12/27/05, 06:29 PM

hi caren,
i don't know about conni.
to get the best information about cl i would call uc davis. make yourself a question cataloge. it is first hand info and not hear saying.

http://cahfs.ucdavis.edu/

they are open tomorrow.
susanne