Off-griders what do you do for a phone?

canfossi · #1 09/20/05, 06:06 PM

For those of you who have homesteads that are off the grid, what kind of setup do you use for your phone? Is a cell phone the only means of phone service in this situation? Thanks, Chris

LisaInN.Idaho · #2 09/20/05, 06:13 PM

no, we have regular phone service. We don't get cell coverage here...it's blocked by the mountains.

Ruby · #3 09/20/05, 07:59 PM

You don't need elect. to have a phone, as long as you use the kind that just plugs into the jack. Only need elect. if you use cordless.

LisaInN.Idaho · #4 09/20/05, 08:11 PM

We do use cordless phones, they are just charged off the solar system and inverter and don't pull much power.

sisterpine · #5 09/20/05, 11:42 PM

there are several types/kinds of phones that can be used when no power or phone land lines are available. there are radio phones (pricey), satelite phones (very pricey), cell phones (pretty cheap for what you get)!

DrippingSprings · #6 09/21/05, 12:04 AM

a regular phone carries no outside electric. it has its own in the line. if it aint a cordless it will work with no electric. i know someone who was living off grid and the house they were in had all the plugins etc as the previous owners had planned on electric. they argued with me about the phone so i went down to dollar general and bought them a regular old timey phone and you could get 911 on it. so they had their phone turned on lol been without one for NINE months because they didnt think they could get one since they didnt have electric.

Quint · #7 09/21/05, 07:53 AM

Yup. One of the great thing about regular landline phones is that you don't need electricity for one.

patarini · #8 09/21/05, 02:43 PM

Cell for me, but the building codes wherre I am allow me to run my house lights off the phone lines!

pcdreams · #9 09/21/05, 03:15 PM

question is why would you want a phone? Only thing I could think is for emergency and thats what a cell is for. Did I mention I don't like phones. Maybe from years of answering them at work

cfabe · #10 09/21/05, 03:38 PM

Like others have said, a phone line supplies power to "normal" phones. You can actually pull a little bit of power off of it for yourself, it's 48VDC if I remember correctly. Might be enough to run a cluster of LEDs as a nightlight or something.

However if you're off the power grid because of remoteness and also can't get a landline phone, your best bet these days is a cell phone. If you have weak signal in your area you can get a booster amplifier for a couple hundred bucks and/or a roof-mounted directional antenna to point at the nearest cell tower which may be able to get you reliable service. If you're down in a valley or behind mountians you may be out of luck.

BlueRidge · #11 09/21/05, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfabe

Like others have said, a phone line supplies power to "normal" phones. You can actually pull a little bit of power off of it for yourself, it's 48VDC if I remember correctly.

48VDC is correct, but it won't supply much amperage. LEDs would be about it, and not many of those. Look on any new phone (last 20 years or so). You'll see a lable with a bunch of numbers, one of which is labeled "REN". That's Ringer Equivalence Number. It represents how much power your phone device draws from the phone lines, expressed in terms of ONE of the old style Bell System ringers. If your REN is .8, for example, your phone draws 8 tenths of the power of one of the old style ringers. Or call it 80%. In most cases, the phone comany offers a maximum REN of 5 to your house. That means you can have 5 of the old style phones plugged in and they will all ring. OR, any combination of new phones whose RENs add up to 5.

We're talking milliamps here, though, not amps.

But don't count on that forever. Phone companies want to get out of the power generation business, and they will eventually. It's already happened in many urban areas. It may be 10 or 20 years before they are finally allowed to pull the plug on rural areas, but the day is coming.

mysticokra · #12 09/21/05, 11:29 PM

I couldn't quite tell from your question whether the phone company was willing to run a land line to you. Just so you will know, I was told by my satellite provider that they will soon have a way to hang a cell phone "box" on the computer network that gets its feed from the satellite. That may offer more options.

sisterpine · #13 09/21/05, 11:34 PM

i think a land line phone is the one thing i long for here on the mountain. getting by just fine with solar power, compost toilet and propane frige but man i miss the clarity of a land line phone that even DH could use with his hearing aids!

Oilpatch197 · #14 09/22/05, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcdreams

question is why would you want a phone? Only thing I could think is for emergency and thats what a cell is for. Did I mention I don't like phones. Maybe from years of answering them at work

Cell phones are not that reliable, somthing happens at the towers, you are SOL.

Cell phones will go out during a disaster(congestion), your best bet is a satalite phone.

Land lines are great, and safer, you can't take them in the car and cause destracted driving!

katlupe · #15 09/23/05, 07:34 AM

We have 2 regular telephone lines, so we can be on our computers at the same time. The phone company had to run the line here and under the road. I need a phone for emergencies (3 elderly parents, 2 grown kids, horses that could need a vet) and for internet as that is how we make money to live here.

It does surprise people that we have a phone living off the grid. But our system would support cordless or ones that have to use electric too.

labrat · #16 09/23/05, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcdreams

question is why would you want a phone? Only thing I could think is for emergency and thats what a cell is for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaInN.Idaho

no, we have regular phone service. We don't get cell coverage here...it's blocked by the mountains.

We haven't moved into our place yet but we will be totally off grid and just as LisaInN.Idaho we’d be without cell service due to the foothills and only 3 towers in the whole county. We’d have to drive either 15 miles west or 10 miles east to get the coverage. As you mentioned for an emergency, do you really think you’d have the time or even be able to get away for the call, especially if you were alone?

freeinalaska · #17 09/23/05, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueRidge

48VDC is correct, but it won't supply much amperage. LEDs would be about it, and not many of those. Look on any new phone (last 20 years or so). You'll see a lable with a bunch of numbers, one of which is labeled "REN". That's Ringer Equivalence Number. It represents how much power your phone device draws from the phone lines, expressed in terms of ONE of the old style Bell System ringers. If your REN is .8, for example, your phone draws 8 tenths of the power of one of the old style ringers. Or call it 80%. In most cases, the phone comany offers a maximum REN of 5 to your house. That means you can have 5 of the old style phones plugged in and they will all ring. OR, any combination of new phones whose RENs add up to 5.

We're talking milliamps here, though, not amps.

But don't count on that forever. Phone companies want to get out of the power generation business, and they will eventually. It's already happened in many urban areas. It may be 10 or 20 years before they are finally allowed to pull the plug on rural areas, but the day is coming.

Yes a phone line has -48 VDC (thats negative 48)for what is called talk battery. When you come off hook you connect the two wires through a load and draw loop current limited to around 27MA. In an off hook state the voltage drops to around -10 to -13 VDC. As you say the REN specifies how many phones can ring, but the ringing signal is completely different from the -48 VDC for the talk battery. An AC ringing voltage of 86 to 130 Volts AC at a frequency of 20 Hz, superimposed onto the -48VDC is what rings the phones. This ringing signal is what the REN is refering.

So you could run some leds or something else that draws less than say 10MA. Once you draw more than that you phone line comes off hook.

Valduare · #18 09/23/05, 08:59 PM

can someone give some numbers of how many LED's can be ran off a phone line.

BlueRidge · #19 09/23/05, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeinalaska

An AC ringing voltage of 86 to 130 Volts AC at a frequency of 20 Hz, superimposed onto the -48VDC is what rings the phones. This ringing signal is what the REN is refering.

Oh, duh. Of course! (Where's the 'embarrassed' smilely here???)

Should be interesting when the AC ringing hits the LEDs. Let's see... We've got 48VDC, and we superimpose 86 to 130 Volts AC on it at irregular intervals (partially determined by telemarketers!). So we've got a polarity reversal of up to +17 volts (130/2 - 48) happening from time to time...

Well, depending on your LEDs, and how you've hooked them up, this could range from zero effect to inconsequential flickering to smoke city!

Quint · #20 09/24/05, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueRidge

Oh, duh. Of course! (Where's the 'embarrassed' smilely here???)

Should be interesting when the AC ringing hits the LEDs. Let's see... We've got 48VDC, and we superimpose 86 to 130 Volts AC on it at irregular intervals (partially determined by telemarketers!). So we've got a polarity reversal of up to +17 volts (130/2 - 48) happening from time to time...

Well, depending on your LEDs, and how you've hooked them up, this could range from zero effect to inconsequential flickering to smoke city!

*Quint rummages through his junk boxes looking for LEDs wire and solder*