At what point do we Draw The Line?

[Christiaan]

Before you get your tails in a total know, you have to remember how inefficient our bureaucracy is. Airports are now less safe since TSA took over than before. Just try to get anything done by SS or the VA or USDA etc. in just one visit. Chips.....who's going to assume liablilty?
As far as "for your own good", vaccination programs were never intended or enforced for that reason. Vaccination is good for the commonweal, the prime purpose of government.

[texican]

When I buy or sell land, I need ID. Open a bank account, ID. Cash checks (at any place 'sides my local bank), ID. Get a Job, ID **what's a JOB?** You ain't got an ID now, you're either flying under the radar (living hand to mouth, cash only basis, no property or vehicles in your name....) or you're living like a refugee... btw...I've been both in the past ...got an aunt w/o a drivers license, but a State ID card...

Now, if you don't have an ID of some sort already, I can see someone getting a 'mite' nervous. If you are an outlaw, or on the run, or hiding out, whatever and you don't have an ID of some sort, get with the program. The program being it's so easy to get an ID. It's incredibly easy to get a totally new ID, or several ID's. Legal ones, or illegal ones. Think Palladin Press!?! seek and ye shall find...

So, if we go to a national ID system, what's to stop you from telling a fib? Chips, oh my, chips... chips can be stolen, hacked, cracked....

ALL of that being said, I would be afraid if the National Socialists were in charge.

[gardentalk]

Originally Posted by Pony

That's why I think the power of the vote is gone... When is the last time you saw a person of integrity actually get elected to a significant office?

My kids think I'm a little paranoid, but I just quote the old saw at them: "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"

Pony!

You've been asleep at the wheel, my friend. The power of the voter disappeared LONG ago, when the race between candidates became more important than the issues upon which those candidates purported to be supporting. Politicians and corporations vote in politicians.

[Quint]

There is no line. For the vast majority of people there is no infringement, no Liberty debasing degradation that they will not accept. All you have to do is mention security or "the children" and the feminized, media addled populace will drop and present. I heard just the other day from some woman who was singing the praises of a DWI "safety" checkpoint. I explained to her that this was a violation of her Liberty and that I found it to be utterly vile. Her response was classic.."If you don't have anything to hide you shouldn't be concerned." And people wonder why their Liberty is being taken little by little every day without so much as a whimper?

There will come a day in he future when a tipping point will be reached and opportunity will present itself in the chaos. There simply is little that can be done at the moment. As long as the checks come on time and there are sports on TV the sheep will continue to sleep, obey and consume. The tree is is rotten and is beginning to fall. Getting in the way at this point will do nothing but get you killed. You can't stop it. Only when the tree is on the ground can the axe work begin. It is then that opportunities to will present themselves. I hope I live to see it.

Voting means little. As Benjamin Franklin told us "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." How well would a candidate do if he said he would carry out his duties by cutting the government and putting the federal government back into its constitutionally mandated box. Voting is meaningless with the populace as it exists now. It will mean even less in the future.

[Kenneth in NC]

I believe that homesteaders in general take to heart the higher values and a lot of posters on this board are of the Christian persuasion and I can not believe they will ignore the Real-ID Act but instead I think they will see it for what it is and respond accordingly.

Having received several e-mails from some Pagan posters I see that they too for non-religious reasons are having trouble swallowing the reasons big guv gives for the Real-ID.


Seems the media is avoiding questions about the REal-ID In fact on a talk show this morning the Caller In was Clicked off as soon as the Real-ID words left her mouth.


Kenneth in NC

[Coloradosteader]

I own several pieces of property and vehicles without showing my ID. I got NM LLC's and property and vehicles are in those names. I recently purchased 41 acres cash and had the warranty deed sent to a PO box addressed to my LLC and the LLC was the named party of the owner. Not that hard at the moment, but I suspect things will change for the worse soon.
Check out www.howtobeinvisible.com that is where I got the LLC's from.
By the way, I have started resrtucturing my life and getting logistics in order as of May of 2005 because of this real ID thing. I don't plan on submitting to it.


Coloradosteader

[goatlady]

I don't know, maybe I'm looking at this differently. Seems to me most of "us" already have jobs, already have bank accounts, already own land/cars/homes. These things will not change if we refuse RealID. I have my earnings deposited directly to the bank, then go in once or twice a month and take it all out. Cash and carry works for me and has for many years. I transfer enough $$ to a checking account already long established to cover any utilities I cannot pay locally in cash. My children know they, in certain situations, can have their earnings sent to my account, and I can withdraw the cash for them same as for myself and pay their out of town bills through my checking account, same goes for the grands also. Know the system and figure out how to work around it - for as long as we can anyway.

[Jim-mi]

I've got to imagine that Antiquestuff's mother's attitude probably sums up the attitude of a HUGE bunch of the ?people? in this country.

........"So whats wrong with a national ID".......
........."It'll make us safer"...............

Anybody know how to wake those "people" up...???

Notice that no where in this post did I use the term sheeple.
It was difficult not to.

[Ozark-Dew]

Kenneth,
I am sorry about your sister's situation, sadly such things still occur. A few years ago a friend's burly truck driving brother succombed to polio - he changed his 6 mo old daughter's diaper and a week later was paralized from the eyelids down. 18 mos later he was dead. Yep, the daughter had that day received her polio vaccine. The only known way outside of a lab to contract the disease is from the vaccine.

[MikeD]

I've obviously been waaaaayyy too busy with my legal battles the last year or so. I've only recently begun to hear about this and am definitely going to look harder. At 2:30 a.m. though, I won't attempt to do anything more than babble, though. Recently heard on a radio show that approximately 10 million illegals cross the borders into this country every year with little to no consequence. Heck, banks are beginning to roll out LOAN PROGRAMS for illegal aliens so they can purchase homes. I have to wonder if something like a Real ID would be necessary if this country had even a thought of securing it's borders better.

Here's where the sleep deprivation hits hard - I recently saw where Ted Turner and the "environmentalists" want to bring big cats and other species "back" to this country. I think we could solve a couple of problems here by combining things. Put a fence up one mile from and parallel to any high risk border crossing area. Let the new wildlife live within that one mile fenced in area. Anyone that makes it across that expanse alive enough to carry themselves through the checkpoint gets a temporary VISA. If it expires and they haven't taken the necessary steps to secure some form of citizenship they get to cross back into their country of origin by the same route, touch "home plate" and then try crossing again.

OK, I'm better now and off to bed. Thank you, Kenneth, and everyone else for your insight on this one. After the last several years of fighting mortgage servicing fraud and Fairbanks Capital Corp. I've got a lot of the "real world" to catch up on. Maybe after a few hours sleep and one last early morning court appearance though. And maybe an afternoon nap...

[Oilpatch197]

Here in Illinois you can get a Non-Driver ID, it's like a drivers license, except you don't have any driving privliges.

Also WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?

I see a unique problem, presented by the speed of information, you see news travels faster and quicker now than ever before.

If a Issue like eniment Domain was brought up prior to Radio, we could very well have another Civil war! But since News travels so FAST, we are just outraged for two or three weeks, then "blah" back to normal life! The problem is the Public's outcry doesn't have a chance to get started, it's like we expect to loose our freedoms!

[Kenneth in NC]

goatlady I talked with my bank and they said soon after Real-ID goes into effect I will be receiving a letter directing me to Stop In and present my new ID to keep my account Current. Should I choose not to, then my account, will be closed in 15 days. I have banked with the same bank since 1980. It seems that 25 years of doing business means Zip to them.

I'm willing to bet that my bank is not the only bank that will follow this procedure.


Kenneth in NC

[BearCreekFarm]

Here's a thought that occurred to me after reading this thread- speaking only for myself, because I haven't asked DH, but I would be more than happy to give up most of my accounts rather than submit to the real ID. I have one credit union account for savings/checking, and a few brokerage accounts and an IRA. We have no mortgage, one truck loan which will soon be paid off, no other debt. We both have credit cards, one for me, several for DH, but I would be willing to give mine up. I'd miss the convenience, especially for online shopping, but hey, maybe by that time we won't be doing any online shopping anyway. Utilities can be paid by cash or money order if need be. But, here's the one thing I can't get past- my IRA account. If I withdrew the balance early, I would get whacked on taxes and penalties. Any thoughts on how to get around this?

[sisterpine]

just a thought...it seems to be that if the gov penalizes you for taking ira money out prior to 59.5 years and if the gov requires you to have some kind of fancy i.d. that you dont want to have a law suit may be in order. they cannot require you purchase the i.d. and they CAN waive the penalty for taking out the money early any old time they feel like it since it is their rule!

[Thumper/inOkla.]

There are people that are getting chipped already. They use it to get into clubs and such with having to use a credit card etc; and some use it to carry medical info. As more people grow up with it anyone that doesn't want it will be looked on as weird or dangerous, ...".what are you wanting to hide?"

I'll get in line to have my head cut off 1st.

[sisterpine]

I may be talking out my arm pit, but isnt the only difference with the real ID the need to prove you are an American citizen? We already have to prove who we are and when and where we were born to get a drivers lic.