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08/21/05, 11:28 PM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 260
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I had to look up what a christian agrarian was!!
I googled it, and from my small understanding I think all of us christian "homesteaders" could fit under this heading.
Dh and I certainly feel that Farming and living on the Land is where God wants us, for right now at least. We try to encourage everyone around us to garden, raise chickens, have goats, or just make better choices.
This is an enteresting topic that I'll have to learn more about, thank-you for bringing it up!
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08/22/05, 08:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 712
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I am wondering about ALL of the "christian" this and thats springing up all over the place. Around here, we have "christian" Drs ..."christian" plumbers ..."christian" mortgage companies ... ect. I wonder what these people do that's different. Would a "christian" farmer plant in a different way or can a "christian" plumber clean your septic system any different? If someone believes in Jesus and has a deep faith, but isn't apart of a "christian" marketing group .... can they still be trusted? If a crafts person IS apart of the "christian" name game; can they always be trusted?
Kinda like that "vote christian" thing ..... If a Christian votes at all .... isn't that "voting christian"? If a christian practices agronomy .... wouldn't they be a christian agronomist?
__________________
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
Thomas Jefferson
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08/22/05, 09:16 AM
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In Remembrance
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: In beautiful downtown Sticks, near Belleview, Fl.
Posts: 7,102
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I think slapping the name 'Christan' on the front of anything except an actual church makes it appear they are trying to gain undeserved public opinion about their trustworthyness. I will never use the services of such a misnamed outfit.
By the way, what is an agrarian?
__________________
If you can read this - thank a teacher. If you can read this in English - thank a veteran.
Never mistake kindness for weakness.
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08/22/05, 10:03 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dyersville, Iowa
Posts: 2,828
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Quote:
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slapping the name 'Christan' on the front of anything except an actual church makes it appear they are trying to gain undeserved public opinion about their trustworthyness. I will never use the services of such a misnamed outfit
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Mitch I agree!! I've finally started avoiding places that use their faith as an advertisement.
What purpose does it serve to tack those implied 'I'm better because of my faith' symbols on business signs where there should be no real difference in the level of service?
I can almost see it if they only want Christians doing business with them; but so far none have turned down my pagan dollars! 
Really, does someone broke down along the road really care if the wrecker service AAA sends out has a big fish symbol on it or not-should they care as long as the company is following good business practices?
I thought it odd; going into a music store & seeing that they sell CDs of some pretty raunchy Rap & Rock groups but yet they have an ad in the yellow pages promoting themselves as a Christian business, it just seems well-tacky!
To me if you are using your faith as a business & marketing tool-you've lost some of your spirituality and started worshipping a new God-the God of Money! I always thought it was lead by example, so if a business is a good example of their faith by being honest,gives good value,considerate,etc-would they need to advertise their religious affiliation? Wouldn't people 'know them by their actions'?
Of course, that's just my opinion and one I'm sure isn't popular with those who do use their faith as a marketing tool.
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08/22/05, 10:09 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,807
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I get irked when I see all the "Christian" this and "Christian" that. (And don't get me started on Calvinism!)
Me, I just prefer to be a Follower of Jesus.
As for businesses that are "Christian" - well, the Bible doesn't say that slapping an ichthus on something makes it Christian (I mean, c'mon! Look at the crazy way some people whose cars are covered in Christian symbols drive those cars!) The Bible says we will be known by our loving actions.
I google'd "Christian agrarian" and came up with LOTS of hits. I'd be hard-pressed to produce an inclusive definition.
Where are the blogs you mention, ZYG? If you'd post a couple of links, I'd like to check them out.
Pony!
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08/22/05, 11:38 AM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: OlyPen
Posts: 4,142
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I try to do all my farming following Livitical practices and other Biblical principles. It seems to work very well. This is our year of letting our land rest, which gives us a bumper crop of blackberries.
There is a lot of scripture in the Bible advising to practice the homesteading lifestyle. This is my favorite:
Pro 27:23 Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, And look well to thy herds:
Pro 27:24 For riches are not for ever: And doth the crown endure unto all generations?
Pro 27:25 The hay is carried, and the tender grass showeth itself, And the herbs of the mountains are gathered in.
Pro 27:26 The lambs are for thy clothing, And the goats are the price of the field;
Pro 27:27 And there will be goats' milk enough for thy food, for the food of thy household, And maintenance for thy maidens.
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08/22/05, 12:18 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 150
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Wendell Berry
You might enjoy this, from Wendell Berry:
Love the quick profit, the annual raise,
vacation with pay. Want more
of everything ready-made. Be afraid
to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head.
Not even your future will be a mystery
any more. Your mind will be punched in a card
and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something
they will call you. When they want you
to die for profit they will let you know.
So, friends, every day do something
that won't compute. Love the Lord.
Love the world. Work for nothing.
Take all that you have and be poor.
Love someone who does not deserve it.
Denounce the government and embrace
the flag. Hope to live in that free
republic for which it stands.
Give your approval to all you cannot
understand. Praise ignorance, for what man
has not encountered he has not destroyed.
Ask the questions that have no answers.
Invest in the millenium. Plant sequoias.
Say that your main crop is the forest
that you did not plant,
that you will not live to harvest.
Say that the leaves are harvested
when they have rotted into the mold.
Call that profit. Prophesy such returns.
Put your faith in the two inches of humus
that will build under the trees
every thousand years.
Listen to carrion - put your ear
close, and hear the faint chattering
of the songs that are to come.
Expect the end of the world. Laugh.
Laughter is immeasurable. Be joyful
though you have considered all the facts.
So long as women do not go cheap
for power, please women more than men.
Ask yourself: Will this satisfy
a woman satisfied to bear a child?
Will this disturb the sleep
of a woman near to giving birth?
Go with your love to the fields.
Lie down in the shade. Rest your head
in her lap. Swear allegiance
to what is nighest your thoughts.
As soon as the generals and the politicos
can predict the motions of your mind,
lose it. Leave it as a sign
to mark the false trail, the way
you didn't go. Be like the fox
who makes more tracks than necessary,
some in the wrong direction.
Practice resurrection.
Manifesto: The Mad Farmer Liberation Front" from The Country of Marriage, copyright © 1973 by Wendell Berry
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08/22/05, 04:58 PM
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AFKA ZealYouthGuy
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NW Pa./NY Border.
Posts: 11,453
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If any one is interested in the blog links, pm me, I won't post them, because this IS not what I wanted, I wanted an honest discussion with those who are Christian Agrarians. I get a little tired of all the "christian" rhetoric and even moreso of the antichristian rhetoric. You all definitely know how to kill a thread. If I proclaimed to be a CA, I sure wouldn't answer to this hostile crowd.
Oh, forget it. I have had a long day and don't need this...
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08/22/05, 05:22 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 150
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Mine sure wasn't intended to be hostile. Wendell Berry is a Christian Agrarian (and so am I, or at least I aspire to be). He is a well-known poet and farmer.
What I posted was his Mad Farmer's Manifesto, which is obviously a poem, but reflects a philosophy that I assumed interested you.
For what its worth, I like this definition, found in the Encylopedia of Southern Culture:
The ideas associated with agrarianism in this century may be stated as an interrelated set of beliefs:
1. The cultivation of the soil is an occupation singularly blessed by God that provides benefits from direct contact with physical nature. It is the mother of all the arts and instills in the cultivator such spiritual and social virtues as honor, courage, self-reliance, integrity and hospitality.
2. The standard by which an economic system is judged is not the amount of prosperity it produces but the degree to which it encouragaes independence and morality. Because the farmer's basic needs of food and shelter are always met through a cooperative relationship with nature, only farming offers complete self-sufficiency regardless of the state of the national economy.
3. The life of the farmer is harmonious, orderly and whole, and it counteracts the tendencies toward abstraction, fragmentation, and alienation that have come with modern existence. The farmer belongs to a specific family, place and region; participates in a historic and religious tradition; and has, in other words, a sense of identity that is psychologically and culturally beneficial.
4. Since nature is the primary source of inspiration, all the arts, music, literature, and other forms of creativity anre better fostered and sustained in an agrarian society. The mass-produced culture of the industrial society lacks the individuality, humanity and simple beauty of folk culture.
5. The thriving cities created by industry, technology and capitalism are destructive of independence and dignity and ecourage crime and corruption. The agricultural community, on the other hand, which depends upon friendly cooperation and neighborliness, provides a possible model for an ideal social order.
Peace.
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08/22/05, 05:28 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,353
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Joey Wahoo
Mine sure wasn't intended to be hostile. Wendell Berry is a Christian Agrarian (and so am I, or at least I aspire to be). He is a well-known poet and farmer.
What I posted was his Mad Farmer's Manifesto, which is obviously a poem, but reflects a philosophy that I assumed interested you.
For what its worth, I like this definition, found in the Encylopedia of Southern Culture:
The ideas associated with agrarianism in this century may be stated as an interrelated set of beliefs:
1. The cultivation of the soil is an occupation singularly blessed by God that provides benefits from direct contact with physical nature. It is the mother of all the arts and instills in the cultivator such spiritual and social virtues as honor, courage, self-reliance, integrity and hospitality.
2. The standard by which an economic system is judged is not the amount of prosperity it produces but the degree to which it encouragaes independence and morality. Because the farmer's basic needs of food and shelter are always met through a cooperative relationship with nature, only farming offers complete self-sufficiency regardless of the state of the national economy.
3. The life of the farmer is harmonious, orderly and whole, and it counteracts the tendencies toward abstraction, fragmentation, and alienation that have come with modern existence. The farmer belongs to a specific family, place and region; participates in a historic and religious tradition; and has, in other words, a sense of identity that is psychologically and culturally beneficial.
4. Since nature is the primary source of inspiration, all the arts, music, literature, and other forms of creativity anre better fostered and sustained in an agrarian society. The mass-produced culture of the industrial society lacks the individuality, humanity and simple beauty of folk culture.
5. The thriving cities created by industry, technology and capitalism are destructive of independence and dignity and ecourage crime and corruption. The agricultural community, on the other hand, which depends upon friendly cooperation and neighborliness, provides a possible model for an ideal social order.
Peace.
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Wow, this is wonderful. And I'm not even a Christian! I love Wendell Berry. I have seen references to the poem you posted but never saw it before. Thanks,
Beaux
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08/22/05, 05:50 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Beautiful Kentucky
Posts: 3,476
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Originally Posted by KY Guest
Of course, that's just my opinion and one I'm sure isn't popular with those who do use their faith as a marketing tool. |
As Burroughs said, "If you're doing business with a religious SOB, get it in writing".
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08/22/05, 05:55 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dyersville, Iowa
Posts: 2,828
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As Burroughs said, "If you're doing business with a religious SOB, get it in writing".
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With three witnesses & notarized!!
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08/22/05, 06:37 PM
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Dreaming of autumn....
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 285
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What is the deal?
I just don't get it. ZealYouthGuy asks a sincere question, wanting to know if anyone on this discussion board would provide more information about a specific way of life/belief system and Christians in general get ripped up and down?
What do people hope to accomplish in doing this? It just boggles my mind that a discussion board that promotes, among other things, community-focused living has to deteriorate to this point.
What if he had said he had been reading a lot of "Pagan Agrarian" blogs or "Atheistic Agrarian" blogs and wanted more information? Would people have jumped all over him?
If you don't like his question, JUST IGNORE HIM AND LET THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED DISCUSS HIS QUESTION.
Good grief!!!
ZealYouthGuy - I know of several Christian agrarian blogs and would be happy to send you the links if you PM me. They may be the same ones you already have, but you never know!
Sallie
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08/22/05, 06:53 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Beautiful Kentucky
Posts: 3,476
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pansies4me
If you don't like his question, JUST IGNORE HIM AND LET THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED DISCUSS HIS QUESTION.
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When you find a way to control threads, let us know. As it is, we have a mix of people and a mix of input, and it doesn't always stay strictly to the original intent. Still, the people WHO ARE INTERESTED are still free to discuss. The rest of us aren't holding them back.
So-? Y'all interested people? Discuss!
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08/22/05, 07:03 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: MO Ozarks
Posts: 123
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ZealYouthGuy,
Please don't be offended, but from another Christian, you certainly need to calm down. Now, what is a Christian Agrarian? You are missing a great opportunity to show Christian fellowship and helpfulness by ignoring those of us, Christian or not, who are asking the question. Can you fill me in? 
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08/22/05, 07:11 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: MO Ozarks
Posts: 123
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Perhaps this belongs in a new thread, but this one has taken an interesting turn, so here goes. I posted this on a "Christian" forum a couple of weeks ago.
"I took my very elderly parents to "interview" a new financial advisor this morning since they are now living with us and need to transfer all of their business dealings to offices closer to our new home.
Very nice office, upscale appearance. But on the wall was a very large portrait with Jesus shaking hands with a couple of what appeared to be financial advisors in a high-rise corner office. I kid you not. I about croaked! And there was some Biblical verse relating to riches and investments. I am a Christian, and I can't tell you how insulted I was. If they were my investments, I probably would have have had a nice long discussion, but since we were just looking for someone to transfer my parents' accounts, etc., I let it go. I haven't yet found the demeanor to discuss issues like this without an all-out attack...mainly because I feel so angry that certain Christians seem to be defining what Christianity is. Like taking the opportunity to selective quote the Bible to justify earning as much as you can on investments. I don't have any problem at all with earning money on investments. My problem is the perception that your investments are doing well because you are in the position of shaking hands with Jesus, or using a financial advisor who subconsciously advertises himself as closer to God, with Jesus in his financial corner. Am I way off base on this? I am a very liberal Christian and that picture really disgusted me."
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08/22/05, 08:37 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 712
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy
If any one is interested in the blog links, pm me, I won't post them, because this IS not what I wanted, I wanted an honest discussion with those who are Christian Agrarians. I get a little tired of all the "christian" rhetoric and even moreso of the antichristian rhetoric. You all definitely know how to kill a thread. If I proclaimed to be a CA, I sure wouldn't answer to this hostile crowd.
Oh, forget it. I have had a long day and don't need this...
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I didn't mean to start anything ... but ... please tell me what a christian agrarian is. If it is a farmer who is a christian, I would like to know how they differ from one who isn't. Honest question ... not trolling.
__________________
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
Thomas Jefferson
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08/22/05, 09:04 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: SC and soon to be NC
Posts: 1,687
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Always seems to be the same posters......
I feel working the land is Man's natural way of being.
God meant us to be farmers.
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08/22/05, 09:09 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 127
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I looked up the word agrarian in the dictionary and it means "having something to do with farm land or farming". With that definition, I would call myself a Christian agrarian. I am a Christian and I am a farmer. I don't know that I do anything any differently than most farmers, except that I farm organically, as I am sure many people on this forum do. I love the Lord and I love the land that He gave me and I do my best to care for it.
__________________
I think, therefore, I am. I am because of the Great I Am.
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08/22/05, 11:49 PM
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Living in the Hills
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,534
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Originally Posted by ZealYouthGuy
I have been reading a lot of self-proclaimed "Christian Agrarian" blogs. I really like and admire many of them, but I would like to know more about this idea. Any of you out there and would like to share some of your ideals? Is there a list of doctrines that "Christian Agrarians" follow. Are all CA's calvinists? Does that fit integerally into CAism?
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I will try to answer some questions...
I couldn't find a list of CA doctrines on any of their sites. There are a lot of books they will sell you, and phamlets you can order, but not easy answers it seems.
I think the CA people think they are calvinists, from what I can gather, but only about a 5 point one if that. Here is a site that has a critique of what they say. I don't necessarily agree with all of assertations either, but it will give you insight into what they believe. http://www.semper-reformanda.org/auburnism.html
I would say, No, Calvinism would not fit integeally into CAism (althougth I think they think it does). If you are really interested in their views, how about emailing them and asking directly for a doctrinal statement. Then line it up with Scripture and see if the puzzle pieces fit. (The puzzle analogy in the above article is a GREAT one and Steve Wilkins is a pastor with the CA movement.)
I hope this helps.
Cheryl
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