How much land needed to homestead?

[NatureDreams]

We're desperately trying to find land (preferrably in Idaho as the laws are so much better there) for homesteading (that we can afford) and wondering just how much we'll need?

We're HOPING to build a small log or other home from materials on our own land (as much as possible) and grow as much of our own food as possible.

Is this doable with 5 acres, or should we look for more?

[Tracy Rimmer]

NatureDreams -- depends on what you mean by "homesteading". MG Kains says in his book Five Acres and Independence that to be reasonably self-sufficient, one would need no less than five acres, and a good portion of that should be woodlot. Personally, I wouldn't want to try to be self-sufficient on anything less than ten -- preferably twenty -- of which I'd want at least half to be woodlot.

Tracy

[LittleJohn]

Depends on your defenition of homesteading. A selfsufficient homestead can be as small as a city lot with a solar home, a greenhouse and a few raised beds. Or as large as a section of land(square mile).

[Grandmotherbear]

For a family larger than a couple, a mnimum of 1 acre per family member. This allows for vegtable and fruits, and small animals and poultry. It doesn't really allow for draft or riding animals or forestry purposes.

American indians generally gardened- 3/8 acre per person, and supplemented with hunting and gathering.

[Wolf mom]

As much as you can possibly afford with what else you want to do. Land is a very good investment. Later, you can sell off some if you decide you don't need/want it and pay for other things or save for your retirement.

[Mrs_stuart]

We do what we can on our 1 acre...
we raise ALL of our meat- chickens, ducks, turkeys, phesants, rabbits, pigs, goats. We raise all our own dairy from goats, we have eggs. We garden and put up as much as possible, we have fruit trees, berry bushes, strawberries, and herbs.

One acre leaves you limited to some things...wood for example...but we get ours free from a few lumber mills that are plentyful in the area. Another, is animal feed and hay...we have to purchase the feed and we try to barter or work for hay (which doesnt always work but sometimes it does)
We buy our grains for bread and such in bulk and extra veggies/fruit from local farmers and can it when cheap and plentyful and sometimes we barter or work for that too.

We also consider self sufficient as working for ourself and we do that...we also sell extra eggs, rabbits and goat milk, cheese and such to help with our animal expense.

It is really what you want to make of it...and what you have...

Belinda

[Shrek]

1/2 acre, to 1000 acres. However much you desire and can afford. What you really need to pursue the self reliency lifestyle is creativity and an outside the box perception. Without these two traits you are always a wannabe or a failure. I found one acre, a personal computer , a few packs of seeds and a couple cups of bait worms a good enough start for the life style I have settled upon for the time being. It all depends on how creative you can be. Sadly many that come to sites as this one is often posess tunnel vision and cannot see outside the box.

[Terri]

It depends what you want to eat, and how you raise your critters.

If you want a beef cow and a milk cow out on pasture, 5 acres is not enough. Not unless you buy hay, anyways.

Of course, on 5 acres you COULD raise rabbits, and chickens, and bee hives, and 2 pigs in a pen, and a couple of dairy goats, and have 4 acres left over for your hay field, a large garden, and an orchard.

And, yes, you CAN have a cow, instead of goats, but in that case expect to buy your hay.

[NatureDreams]

Thanks for all the replies. Well, most of them (someone could handle a little sensitivity training ).

We're not exactly morons who've never done anything self sufficient before.

I grew up living off the land and we would like to get back to that kind of lifestyle.

When we say homesteading, we're thinking of a self-built house, etc, of growing as much of our own food as possible (legumes, grains, fruits, vegetables, etc) and of being off-grid of utilities (so obviously solar, wind, etc for power or no power at all, that sort of thing).

What and where we are now just doesn't work for that (.23 acres in a suburb on the coast where you can't grow anything as the sun never shines).

It's simply hard to figure out from looking at something whether it will be enough to reasonably come close to sustaining any semblence of self-sustainance without asking people who have done or are doing it.

We already live as self reliably and creatively as possible with what means we have (such as elimination communication with our children, reusible cloth toilet tissue, gardening as we can, food preservation, etc). Creativity isn't what we're lacking, money is.

[NatureDreams]

Terri, we'd probably be planning only chickens (if that) and a horse or two for helping work the land. We're vegans, so that makes that aspect easy.

[dscott7972]

I'm only partially self sufficient with a full time job. I raise rabbits, ducks, chickens, dairy goats etc. all on one acre. I have a bonus though, I sit connected to my Grandfathers 200+ acre farm in which being retired (in 78', he's now 93) the farm is only rented out for corn. So I have timber I can cut, weeds I use for my goats, etc. It would be alot harder without the extra land.
We are looking at land in Southern KY with a fixer-upper and are putting an offer on 15+ acres with an amish house though a sale is pending. With the equity in my current home I will be able to take a year off to fix up new place and get the "farm" in order before needing to get a part-time job.
We won't settle for less than 8 acres. I figure for what I'm looking for in the self-sufficient lifestyle that is what I'll need. At least 1 acre in woods, but hopefully more.
John Seymour's "self-sufficient life" (newer version) and Paul Heiney's "country life" both have nice layouts for the kitchen/garden; 1/2 acre; 3 acre; 8 acre and 25 acre self sufficient lifestyle.

[moonwolf]

Originally Posted by NatureDreams

We're desperately trying to find land (preferrably in Idaho as the laws are so much better there) for homesteading (that we can afford) and wondering just how much we'll need?

We're HOPING to build a small log or other home from materials on our own land (as much as possible) and grow as much of our own food as possible.

Is this doable with 5 acres, or should we look for more?

I agree basically with Tracy that 5 acres would be a minimum.
I had a garden property with one acre clear and had an abundance of growth from it which supported several peoples vegetable needs and some sold at market. A small house with cistern gave water, but this area has decent rains for supporting the garden. Some days we covered the garden to protect from frost. The adjacent 20 acres were bush and wetland which we didn't use anyway.

What is the property like? Is there good road access? Is it tillable to have a decent growing gardens? Is there a good water source? Is zoning going to be a problem if you want to build a log cabin on your own? Sometimes there are restrictions about logging use on even your own land to build with?
I would check out those details along with other plans before deciding to move there.

[Terri]

Originally Posted by NatureDreams

Terri, we'd probably be planning only chickens (if that) and a horse or two for helping work the land. We're vegans, so that makes that aspect easy.

A horse needs an acre to an acre and a half if he is grazed, plus grain if he is working, and hay for the winter.

Or, so says my Great-Uncle about his cow ponies. I have no idea what a heavy horse would need.

[rzrubek]

Originally Posted by NatureDreams

Thanks for all the replies. Well, most of them (someone could handle a little sensitivity training ).

We're not exactly morons who've never done anything self sufficient before.

I grew up living off the land and we would like to get back to that kind of lifestyle.

When we say homesteading, we're thinking of a self-built house, etc, of growing as much of our own food as possible (legumes, grains, fruits, vegetables, etc) and of being off-grid of utilities (so obviously solar, wind, etc for power or no power at all, that sort of thing).

What and where we are now just doesn't work for that (.23 acres in a suburb on the coast where you can't grow anything as the sun never shines).

It's simply hard to figure out from looking at something whether it will be enough to reasonably come close to sustaining any semblence of self-sustainance without asking people who have done or are doing it.

We already live as self reliably and creatively as possible with what means we have (such as elimination communication with our children, reusible cloth toilet tissue, gardening as we can, food preservation, etc). Creativity isn't what we're lacking, money is.

A little touchy aren't we? I thought you got some pretty good advice given the little bit they were given to go on. If you are looking for a totally "PC" crowd, you have come to the wrong place. Don't be so thin skinned, nobody was rude or mean to you.

[NatureDreams]

actually, Shrek was pretty rude. but que sara sara.

[Shrek]

Not rude, just being realistic. Do a search of how many have failed and you will realize that the move to self reliency takes outside the box thinking coupled with tackling one key step at a time. The successes I have seen have started small and gradually added to their holdings.

While many wannabes here have cashed it in, I actually know one man who became self relient while living in an apartment in Huntsville Al with no "normal" job for 5 years. He supported himself by hunting, fishing, raising gourmet mushrooms in the second bedroom and container gardening on his patio.

He paid his rent and utilities and after 5 years moved to a mobile home and one acre 5 miles out of the city where today he BISF gardens and still pursues his "apartment homesteading" pursuits. He hasnt worked for anybody except himself for almost 12 years. He is now negotiating with a mutual aquaintence to purchase himself 30 acres of standing timber for a private hunting area.

I know this mans history because I was the one who laid him off of his job for taking unauthorized time off to go hunting in 1993. In 1995 he introduced me to worm ranching which grew into one of the facets of my lifestyle since my layoff in 2001.

I doubt that Dinah Shore would posess the neccesary perspective to fit into a self relient lifestyle but many others do. As I stated earlier, those successful ones all know that acreage amount is not as important as many newbies or wannabes believe it is. Often an excess of acreage and dream expansions can be detrimental due to financial constraints. A viable approach is "Start small, succeed small, achieve small advances, look back at the great distance you have come.

Approach it realistically with creativity in selecting an income niche and your goal of self reliency will be easier to achieve. Also never think you can become self sufficient. As long as there are requirements of property taxes being paid , increased self reliency is the only attainable goal.

[gardentalk]

Originally Posted by Grandmotherbear

For a family larger than a couple, a mnimum of 1 acre per family member. This allows for vegtable and fruits, and small animals and poultry. It doesn't really allow for draft or riding animals or forestry purposes.

American indians generally gardened- 3/8 acre per person, and supplemented with hunting and gathering.

I may sound very ignorant of horse-raising here, but I get a chuckle every now and then when I hear some of the neighbors up behind us building something in their horsebarn. They're always building something in there. And, they have draft horses.

Yet, they live on about an acre of land. It just doesn't feel right. Actually, it makes me sad to think that maybe the guy there used to live on a large farm and had to sell the farm, and is just "trying to hang on" to whatever farming memories he has left.

[NatureDreams]

Approach it realistically with creativity in selecting an income niche and your goal of self reliency will be easier to achieve. Also never think you can become self sufficient. As long as there are requirements of property taxes being paid , increased self reliency is the only attainable goal.

Fortunately we are doing that. We're aware one can't be completely separate from the US Gov't and it's children, but you CAN prepay taxes on land, etc.

We have several options for independant income generation and have been working on those for a while to help allow us to make this move in the first place.

The difference is we had been looking in a different state where land is more affordable but recent changes in politics and laws have us desiring a place with the least amount of restriction available, which in this case costs much more than where we were looking. I'm sure those who walk paths different from societal mainstream will understand what I mean when I say we don't need any more intrusion into our lives by the government than we already have.

We'd love to be able to work it on 1 acre, as that would be more affordable, but we also believe in being realistic and having buffer between us and neighbors, as we have children. Part of the reason for moving to a remote area is to allow us the freedom to raise them as we wish, neighbors a few hundred feet away is no different than living in a suburb. Realistically we need more than 1 acre for that.

[MorrisonCorner]

Originally Posted by NatureDreams

Thanks for all the replies. Well, most of them (someone could handle a little sensitivity training ).

We're not exactly morons who've never done anything self sufficient before.

I'm not sure how you expected us to know that! But be that as it may, I'd say at a minimum 5 acres, and you'll pretty much be using all of that to maximum efficiency. I personally wouldn't even attempt it on less than 25, and even then, I do have standards. I'm not raising my own flax and weaving my own cloth, for example.

I really neet to put a tag line on myself that reminds everyone 'no man is an island.'

[Quint]

Buy as much land as you can possibly afford.

I would say 100 is the bare minimum for "comfort" with 200 being better. Once you start getting into the triple digits of acres the stress levels from being too close to neighbors decrease and the options you have for food, fuel and building materials production increase.