Selling Pulpwood Advice

[glenberryfarm]

Hi,
I would like to ask those of you that have sold pulpwood or buy it, to please lend some advice.
I have an area of about 5 acres that I wanted to clear of trees. That area had already been logged years ago and several folks including our foresty guy said it was second growth etc. So we thought what about pulpwood.

Got a guy who advertised that he buys pulpwood 8" in diameter and bigger out yesterday. He ends up saying that area doesn't do much for him, but he is very interested in the area behind it. That's about another 5 acres that hasn't been touched too much and still has a pretty good mix.

He shows up today with his associate and they go back there again. In a quite a pushy way, he tells me that the tract I didn't want cleared-he will give me $5500. He leaves the stumps and tops.

Ok....looks to me like he is looking at the real good stuff. I thought pulpwood was the timber that wasn't so good.
Any advice or prior experiences would be greatly appreciated
Thank you

[james dilley]

You need to talk to the State Forrester in your area, Also you require whats called Best management techniques meaning the clean up the stumps and other debri. and the price is way to Cheap from what I know, Do not let them push you into signing till after you talk to the state people. You need several quotes not just one.

[kmaproperties]

find a standing timber estimater and pay him to come out and give you a writen estimate of the value of your trees. he will mark off the ones to be cut, and give you a good number to go by. your county extension office should be able to help find one. then when you get a price you can use the estimaters numbers to get your price

[agmantoo]

Hire a consulting forest expert. The last one I used charged $800 to cruise 40 acres. He gave me an inventory of the type of trees and the number of thousand board feet of each. Additionally he painted the boundries and marked the areas where the loggers were not to harvest. He assured me that the area harvested would comply with the BMP (best management practice) so that I would qualify for state assistance with the replant. If I had wanted he would have submitted the tract for bids to perspective harvesters and taken a commssion instead of the fix fee. You need to KNOW what you are selling! Realize that the buyer KNOWS what he is bidding on! I refer to this as higher ethics.... "They were strangers and we took them in" DON'T GET TAKEN

[Darren]

Selling timber is one of the ways an inexperienced landowner gets taken. Do it wrong and the IRS gets a big chunk of the owner's earnings and the forested area may never recover to produce at its potential in the future. It takes about eighty years between harvests. A logger that's out for a quick buck will cut every thing mechantible and leave you with species that will mean less value in the future. Not to metion that the land can be torn up beyond belief.

As others have said, get a professional and even then be careful. If you're a first time seller, TALK TO YOUR ACCOUNTANT FIRST.

[texican]

Never go into any negotiation, knowing less than your adversary...otherwise, you WILL be taken for a boat ride.

I've sold timber and pulpwood. I trusted the man, a neighbor up the road, but I also sat there watching them load half the time. I got tickets from each load...and on days I wasn't there counting, I knew they could only get out so many trucks, and the tickets were always in my favor.

You might consider getting a trailer, and hauling a couple tons at a time to the nearest woodyard, that way you make all of the money...the hauler gets more than you do... Pine pulpwood this time of year is around 6 to 8 dollars a ton...that's what the hauler'll give you... whereas the mill is giving 20+ a ton.

Or, mark the trees you want cut, go to the woodyard and tell em you're looking for loggers, if they give you a good bid take it. Don't sell your good trees if you don't want to. It takes a while for the forest to recover. Here in E Texas, pine is on a 18 yr rotation...planting to harvest, and start over again...

[Swampfoot]

Here are a couple of articles that relate to selling timber from the Alabama extrension service website. Even though it is an Alabama publication I think the general principles would apply anywhere. Your own state extension service may be able to provide more specific information.

A guide to selling timber...
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-0626/

Timber sale and harvesting contracts...
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-0560/

I can tell you from experience that there are a lot of timber buyers that rely on inexperienced sellers to make their profits. They are not all like this but it just takes a few bad apples. Some things they might do include:
-Paying you less than the timber is worth (ie buying sawtimber at a pulpwood price)
-Cut an area larger than you wanted. A timber harvest should be clearly marked with paint.
-Slip across the property line and cut some of your neighbors timber
-Work in really wet weather and destroy the site quality
-Not carry sufficient insurance.
-Promise to put up gates or restore roads before they leave and then split without fixing any problems.
-Work on their equipment and let the oil and hydraulic fluid pour on the ground.
-Leave litter everywhere or bury it somewhere.
-Use tree tops to make a creek crossing or even worse haul trees down a wet weather creek bed
-Work without a contract and take virtually forever to finish the job. You become the backup wood supply that they can turn too when they have no other wood to cut.

I am not trying to scare you but I have seen all of these thing happen at one time or another.

The advice from others to hire a consulting forester is the best you will get if your land and how it will look afterwords is important to you. He/she will know everyone in the area who buys timber and what their habits are. The forester is their to protect your interests and will likely more than pay for themselves in the long run.

[Hoop]

Any logger that advertises buying "pulpwood" 8" & larger in diameter is more than likely a crook.

Landowners get bred on a daily basis by loggers. Most landowners don't have a clue if they have high grade (veneer) hardwoods or low grade pulpwood.
The fact that you have a small lot generally means you won't receive a huge windfall unless you have some high grade hardwood trees. The costs of moving the equipment have to be paid.

From a business standpoint, the logger that pays the least amount of $$$ to the landowner for their trees is maximizing their profit. Their exists a fine line between good business and screwing a landowner.

Frankly, I find many many private foresters to be just as crooked as some of the most unscrupulous loggers.

County foresters are who you should be consulting. They aren't in it for a buck and can give you an unbiased opinion. They usually know who the "good" loggers and "crooked" loggers are.

[stumpyacres]

There is a lot of not needed advise. Sorry - but true. You can select cut for "Logs" (more money) and the rest will be pulpwood. Find someone with a truck and do it yourself - that is if you can run a chainsaw. Go to the local woodyard and ask the prices and length and widths. Do not call in an"expert" and you do not have to call the local forestry dept. It is your land not the states. email me if you need to knwo more. vasexy1@yahoo.com. (my dh does this for a living ) julie

[stumpyacres]

Hire a consulting forest expert. The last one I used charged $800 to cruise 40 acres

WHY? Only city folk would do that.

[MaineFarmMom]

Originally Posted by stumpyacres

WHY? Only city folk would do that.

Hooey. My husband's a forester. Our phone rings all time. Our town of 67 people, surrounding towns of a couple hundred and the nearest city being 100 miles away, we're hardly city folk. If you need consultation on surgery you'd call a surgeon. Need help with forestry? Call a forester.

[papaw]

If I read the first post right, you want to cut 5 acres and they want to cut a different 5 acres. I would cut what I wanted, no matter what they said. Even if the money were better, it's your place and it takes a long time to grow a mixed forest.

[glenberryfarm]

Thanks so much everyone. I was really getting a bad feeling about this. He was in such a hurry and getting pushier. I will look elsewhere and keep doing my research. I can see how easily someone can get taken. Arm yourself with info!
Thanks Again

[stumpyacres]

Hooey. My husband's a forester. Our phone rings all time. Our town of 67 people, surrounding towns of a couple hundred and the nearest city being 100 miles away, we're hardly city folk. If you need consultation on surgery you'd call a surgeon. Need help with forestry? Call a forester

Of course you would say that - he is making money. I'm saying cut out all the middle men and do it yoursef.

[Swampfoot]

Originally Posted by stumpyacres

Of course you would say that - he is making money. I'm saying cut out all the middle men and do it yoursef.

This forum is all about doing things for yourself but there is a learning curve associated with every new thing you do. Most people might have one (or at the most two) opportunities to handle a timbersale in their lifetime. You will have a lot of years to live with the consequences of a poorly executed logging job.

You can always rebuild a fence or chicken coop but skidder ruts, mangled timber, eroded soil, and chainsaw injuries last a long time. When you hire a consulting forester you are paying for his or her experience to protect your interests.

[stumpyacres]

True - maybe it's easier in my eyes cause my dh is so experienced. I really didn't consider homesteaders that have little or no chainsaw or lumber experience. Things like spring back, poorly loaded, kickbacks...ok I see your point. Julie

[MaineFarmMom]

Originally Posted by stumpyacres

Of course you would say that - he is making money. I'm saying cut out all the middle men and do it yoursef.

No, he's not making money at it. He works for someone else and not as a consulting forester. The help he gives from home does not make money. It doesn't interfer with what he does as a forester for his employer. There's a need in the area. He enjoys the work and is willing to help.

But yes, of course I'd say that, because the effects of a poorly done logging job can easily out last the land owner's lifetime. Timber trespass is expensive when you're hauled into court for crossing the property line. Skidder damage is not easily repaired when logs are hauled out in wet weather. Someone in the business knows which loggers have had CLP (Certified Logging Professional) training (the mill here does not accept wood from non-CLP contractors), who's responsible and who to avoid. There's a lot to consider before allowing someone in to do a dangerous job the land owner isn't knowledgable enough about.

Not all consultations come with a fee. There are companies that will write land management plans, offer timber harvest management and other aspects of this without charging a fee. A state forester is a good example of this.