Electric Service Limitations?

SouthernThunder · #1 06/14/05, 01:24 PM

Hey folks I got a question for the engineers and electricians out there. I want to build a house on a certain tract of land at the back of the property. The electric company will come 300 feet into my property at no charge. Anything after 300 feet is $2.60 per foot. They only use utility poles too, no underground service. Well the place I want to put the new house is about 1000 feet away from where their 300 foot mark ends.

What I would like to do is have them go 300 feet in at no charge like they said and then put a meter. Then I want to run my own line underground from this location 1000 feet up to the new home site. The problem is they said they want the meter to be within 150 feet of the house.

Well I don’t want to pay them $2.60 to run a bunch of poles 1000 feet through the woods to my house. It would be vastly cheaper for me to run the line myself underground and I wouldn’t have to sacrifice any trees or have to worry about poles and guy wires all over the place. Can I run a line 1000 feet? Will there be too much voltage drop? Is there any way I can do this without having these folks come rip a path through my property?

Thanks!
ST

moonwolf · #2 06/14/05, 01:47 PM

I would think the electric people require you have the meter as they said near the house. I don't believe you'll get around that.
I don't know the maximal distance to run an underground cable, but it's sized by the load going through it and the distance. I have a 150 run underground from the house to the barn to carry 50 amps. Can't remember the wire size (2/0 maybe??) but it's thick and expensive.
Even if you could go underground from a meter at the 'free' spot and run a long distance underground to a house, AND if it's a substantial amps service you want (I'm guessing you'll want greater than 50 amps)....then it might be cheaper to bring in the line by pole at the $2.60 per foot.

agmantoo · #3 06/14/05, 01:53 PM

You can run a 1000 ft of underground to the house but you need to have the transformer at the house. The utility company will not want to transmit over your wire is the problem. If the transformer is back at the end of the 300 ft free line the line losses are too great without running a prohibitively expensive and extremely large diameter wire. Have you asked for a comparison of running an underground service against an overhead pole service where the right of way will have to be cleared and maintained. I am at the end of a long run similar to what you want and the utility company did a comparison and for only a small amount more I got an underground service to the meter base that is about 100 ft from the home. I am responsible for the wire from the meter to the house which is also underground. Here, the utility company owns from the meter back and the homeowner is responsible from the meter forward.

Fire-Man · #4 06/14/05, 02:06 PM

Hello Moonwolf
Let the power company run the wire------------It will cost you less than The Size wire you would Have to buy just to Run that distance, to get a decent size service to your home plus you will have to pay for all the Loss that you will loose running that distance---------wouldn't even think about it---------See they run the High Voltage lines up to within APP. 150ft of your home. Then they step it down through a transformer. You would be running the lower voltage-------Your amperage loss would be Great. Randy

moopups · #5 06/14/05, 02:16 PM

Keep in mine the 'phantom load', thats the amount of electricity that is present between the meter and your actual useage. It would be massive over such a long run, you would be setting yourself up for a real lot of cost above and beyond the cost of whats needed.

SteveD(TX) · #6 06/14/05, 02:23 PM

I agree about the cost of heavy wiring. Last year, I ran underground elec. service to our boathouse, which was 650 ft. away from the meter / service box. My bid from the local electrician was $5400. I did it myself (used an electrician for advice and hookups, etc.), but the cost of the wire alone was over $2000. We did the underground run in two pulls a little over 300 ft. each. Took some manpower to manage that, but it worked out. The elec. co. wanted $26.00/LF to run it underground themselves to a new meter.

cfabe · #7 06/14/05, 02:32 PM

The issue here is voltage drop over such a long run after their transformer. There are specific design criteria (I believe less than 3% voltage drop under full load). Since it is such a long distance you'll have to use larger than normal wire for the run, any decent electrician should be able to calculate this for you. I don't think you'll be able to beat their $2600 for running it back there, once you account for materials and labor.

There is no "phantom load" in service wire, the issue is just the cost of the installation.

farminghandyman · #8 06/14/05, 02:32 PM

you can do it but if you think that the 2.60 a foot is expensive, try the under ground for 1000 feet, of the proper sized wire.

if I am reading the voltage drop calculator correctly for a 200 amp entrance, the wire would have to be either 1000 Kcmil or 1250 kcmil (aluminum wire), the basic diameter of that size of wire would be close to 1 1/4" inches across (no insulation measured), and you would need two of them and a at least a 1 awg for the ground/neutral to stay with in a 3% voltage drop, so the conduit would be 3" to 4" Not sure of the open space/fill requirements on that.

http://www.electrician.com/indexold.html
then click on the voltage drop calculator,
another one
http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html

IN my opinion it is just not logical, to do it that way. I would think the cost would be very high for just the wire not counting the trenching in a wood area,

Rowdy · #9 06/14/05, 03:55 PM

The electric company price is much cheaper than trying to do the required ductbank yourself.

Week before last I called around here (west texas) to price some direct burial 2/0 wire, three conductor The price at Lowes was $5.24 per ft, and the electric suppy houses all averaged around $4.40 a ft. You'll need alot bigger wire for your run, so the prices will likely be quite higher than the ones I quoted above.
Even before you price the subpanels, grounding system, etc, just the price of the wire makes the electric company's price quite reasonable.

As for losing trees and such... Even if they would do ductbank for you (which from what I got from your post, they wouldn't) they'd still require a clear right-of-way to do the work in.
If it was my money, and if I had it to spare, I would have them come in to about 100-150 of the housesite, put their meter, and then run it underground from there, so at least it would not show up around the house too much... Again, that is extra money, which I doubt anyone has much to spare.

just my couple cents,

Rowdy

SouthernThunder · #10 06/14/05, 05:40 PM

Thanks everyone for answering my question beyond a shadow of a doubt!

For them to go underground they want $8 a foot. That’s why I wanted to do it myself but as noted the wire size needed is economically insane. Their ain't no chance of them letting me set up my own transformer at the house. :waa:

As I said, I don’t want their poles cluttering up my property and after looking over this contract I see that I would also be giving them an easement on my property which I am less than thrilled about doing. The wording is such that they could run power to my house.. and if they want.. can run lines all over the property to get power to my neighbors. No thanks! I'll let them steal that from me in court.

The place is already off the water grid, and the gas grid, so what do I need an electric company for anyway? Time to rob a bank and go solar I guess...

via media · #11 06/14/05, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernThunder

The wording is such that they could run power to my house.. and if they want.. can run lines all over the property to get power to my neighbors.

Depending on where your neighbors are, maybe you could outwait them. Let one of them sign a screwy contract with the power company and then run your line from there.

/VM

Quint · #12 06/15/05, 03:41 AM

I must have got lucky. My electric company said I had a choice of buried or poles but they said they would rather I went with buried since it causes less problems with trees and storm damage. I was overjoyed to have it buried since that was what I REALLY wanted but figured I could never afford it. They also ran it for free. Didn't cost me anything no matter where I wanted it run to. I think my run was somthing like 800 or 900 feet from the nearest power line. On top of that they did have to replace/upgrade about 3/4 of a mile of main power line to even get to my property. There was a fee for the meter and some minor fees for starting service. I don't remember the exact amount but it was under 200 dollars. They also said if I needed any other drops to a shop or sheds they will come and do it for free.

bbbuddy · #13 06/15/05, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernThunder

Thanks everyone for answering my question beyond a shadow of a doubt!

The place is already off the water grid, and the gas grid, so what do I need an electric company for anyway? Time to rob a bank and go solar I guess...

Why solar?
check out the listeroid slow speed diesel gensets at
http://utterpower.com/

Ours just arrived, we still need to build the powerhouse for it...

maddy

antiquestuff · #14 06/15/05, 08:50 PM

Fuel prices will be going up to the point where generators are a bad idea most likely in the future--go with solar or wind or a combination.

farminghandyman · #15 06/16/05, 12:09 AM

for a quick and economical start up you use a generator the better the generator the better for you,
but if you ge a low speed diesel you will have some thing that should last a good long time, a cheap high speed gas unit may only last a few 100 hrs if that,

you set the generator up to charge a battery bank and to run heavy things, well, washing machine, power tools, (if it is water cooled you can have it heat water as well ),

as in the example you pump water do the wash and charge the batteries, and then live off the batteries and an inverter other times of the week, and if needed you restart the generator to charge the batteries again.

but if you do it that way, and have the proper battery charging system, and use for the other power you use will be very economical,

Add the solar later when you can afford,

(you will need a gen-set for emergency or backup any way)