How much for timber

sancraft · #1 05/07/05, 08:46 PM

I had an offer from a man wanted to buy my timber. it is very large (3ft + in diameter) hardwoods. What would be a fair price for them? I'm in GA.

Elizabeth · #2 05/07/05, 08:53 PM

Sancraft-

Call your local forestry service office to find out how to get an estimate of the value of the timber. You might have to hire a professional timber appraiser, but you can probably get at least a rough estimate from the FS.

DO NOT sell any timber without an appraisal.

sancraft · #3 05/07/05, 09:08 PM

Thanks. I'll call them on Monday. He's coming back tomorrow with an offer. I wanted to make sure it was a fair offer. I won't agree to anything yet.

bethlaf · #4 05/07/05, 09:09 PM

Generally speaking, I would first ask for at least five references and ask him where he sells his lumber, then check with that lumber mill to see what they are paying him per board foot on timber, I would ask for a 50% 50% split, that is the most common way to ensure that you are not cheated...... and the lumber mill can pay you your portion directly.

You will never get as much in an outright bid for your lumber because they are covering their behinds with a low estimate on linear footage.......that way they dont get hurt.

_Neal

mtman · #5 05/07/05, 09:12 PM

if you have any black walnut big ones they are worth a lot of money

sancraft · #6 05/07/05, 09:17 PM

There are about 6-7 huge black walnuts. Several poplars, some oaks and a couple others that I don't know what they are. The mill is right across the street from my property. I met that gentleman today also, so I'll go ask him tomorrow what he's paying. I think he 50/50 split sounds very fair.

mtman · #7 05/07/05, 09:29 PM

if they are very big and at least 10 or 12 feet high very stright they are worth a bunch have to be stright they use them for veneer

http://www.hardwoodlogs.com/

try looking here and sign up

agmantoo · #8 05/07/05, 10:05 PM

I sell directly to the mill. The truck is weighed before it leaves the property. The mill pays the harvestor. I get paid weekly on yield. Good hardwood is bringing a premium at this time. Typically the yield method will render the harvestor approximately 35% of the timber value, not 50%.

chas · #9 05/07/05, 10:44 PM

I was offered as low as 1,300 for 13 acres in western Pa. the guy and his friend that I went with got me that much for a couple black cherry trees for veneer.they where processed on a ship heading for Japan! Veneer got me around $8,000.00 and the rest gave me another $10,000.00 Big diffrence huh!
BUT the biggest plus was they gauranteed me nothing under 18/20 inches diameter at chest height would be harvested. Not 18/20 at stump height (big diffrence.)
The idea was to NOT break the canopy overhead,which if you do makes the standing trees grow side branches.Which ruins future veneer logs.
They did such a good job that the next year lumber men flying over taking pictures of standing timber offered to buy what they thought was a mature stand :haha:
I was handed both checks from the processors and wrote the guys out a check giving them half.
They sprayed orange X' s on the trees they wanted to cut and we walked it together to see if we agreed.They had to take extra where it was too thick to bring down a tree once in a while.And cut some bad trees for my firewood.
This way every ten years I can harvest my woods.And you bet these guys are welcome to come back.
The processors came out to give a bid to see which ones would get the timber from us after it was skidded out in the open.
Keep your woods if possable for as long as you can .But when mature they need harvested or they go down hill in value and become a danger from decaying and falling and taking up space.
Oh, and I left a couple den trees for nesting.that wasn't good money sense! But hey, the coons and squirrels was here before me

Chas

Ole Man Legrand · #10 05/08/05, 03:06 AM

How big of a mess are they going to leave for you to clean up. Also how are you going to get paid for the trees they damaged getting the logs out of the woods. They will probably going to do as much damaged as you are going to get paid.

sancraft · #11 05/08/05, 05:21 AM

He says that won't leave a mess. They will take down some smaller pines that I need out to clear the area for a my house and for pasture. We will walk together and mark what goes. All the stumps will be uprooted and cut and stacked for firewood. Any crooked peices that have to cut out will be cut and stacked for firewood. The limbs done the same way. Any smaller trees that have to come out for the house, firewood. The pine logs cleaned off, cut to uniform size and stacked where I want to build the coop and barn with them. All debris piled and burned. He said they'd leave it clean and do what I want. Some of the huge one I want to keep. I have tons of good sized trees that will be left too. He's really after the huge ones. He's also cleaning out around the creek which I want dug out for a pond. He's an older gentleman, I'd say about 70-80 yrs. old. Will bring the paperwork, but still likes to shakes hands on the deal. I think he'll be real honest with me.

Hoop · #12 05/08/05, 06:24 AM

I would be EXTREMELY wary of an unsolicited offer to purchase your hardwoods. The fact that this person wishes to do business with a handshake should have the alarm bells going off at 120 decibels.

Absolutely do NOT have any logger come onto your property and engage in logging activities without a contract. YOUR contract, not theirs. The loggers need your logs FAR FAR more than you need their money.
Do a check of the loggers history. This doesn't mean taking their word for it, this means getting in your vehicle and inspecting the job where they are currently working. If the logger isn't forthcoming about their current logging operations, throw them off your property at once. Talk to landowners where they have just completed logging operations and ask the landowners how they were treated. Also do a criminal and civil judgement search.

Be leary about allowing total strangers with chainsaws & equipment on your property, simply because they come across as sincere & honest.

EasyDay · #13 05/08/05, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sancraft

He says that won't leave a mess. They will take down some smaller pines that I need out to clear the area for a my house and for pasture. We will walk together and mark what goes. All the stumps will be uprooted and cut and stacked for firewood. Any crooked peices that have to cut out will be cut and stacked for firewood. The limbs done the same way. Any smaller trees that have to come out for the house, firewood. The pine logs cleaned off, cut to uniform size and stacked where I want to build the coop and barn with them. All debris piled and burned. He said they'd leave it clean and do what I want. Some of the huge one I want to keep. I have tons of good sized trees that will be left too. He's really after the huge ones. He's also cleaning out around the creek which I want dug out for a pond. He's an older gentleman, I'd say about 70-80 yrs. old. Will bring the paperwork, but still likes to shakes hands on the deal. I think he'll be real honest with me.

Sancraft, it's a good sign that he has already discussed clean up. Just make sure it's in the written contract about clean up, any fences that they have to take down they'll have to put back up, etc. Fences and road should be restored by them in "as good or better condition" than before the sale. This is not an unreasonable request. Make sure the company has insurance for their guys,etc. Really good information on http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplo...try/g05051.htm

The article is on selling black walnut, but the rules of selling will apply to any type. If you had more time, I'd recommend the bidding process that is described to ensure you get top dollar. But, having been following your situation, you probably don't want to wait through that whole process.

My best to you and yours,
~Easyday

big rockpile · #14 05/08/05, 07:58 AM

sancraft I'm figuring your wanting these trees out of your way.More than likely the Guy will do an ok Job.

But what I'm thinking on the Walnut,if you sell the Nuts every year,it will give you a little money each Fall,plus you will still have your Trees.

Plus if your looking to burn Walnut I never liked it because it will Soot up a Flue very fast because of the oil in the inner bark.

big rockpile

**fordson major** · #15 05/08/05, 07:59 AM

sounds good! i would get some references and ask people that he has cut trees for. paper signed is a good way to keep clear what is to be done/payed, old style handshake with honest people with good memories but when things go awry paper says the same as when signed. might see if he would swap some cut lumber for logs , sounds like a relationship you will want to keep good! saw dust for the hens ,slabs and culls for building/heating and possibley help with heavy equipment.

CountyAgent · #16 05/08/05, 09:55 AM

sancraft,

I would (almost) never advise anyone to sell a tract of timber without using a consulting forester. Make sure this forester is independent (i.e., not connected to a timber company). This forester will likely sell your timber through a sealed bid. It isn't unusual for the high and low bids in this type of sale to differ by 300%!

Consulting foresters usually work for a commission of 10-15%, but when you consider that you can get up to 3X more for your timber with a consultant, you still come out ahead.

A lump sum payment is usually better than selling "on shares." The reason? When you get your entire payment up front, the risk is then on the logging company -- not you. What if they get in there and the quality isn't what they thought, or the markets change or something like that? If you've gotten a lump sum payment up front, you already have your money, regardless of what happens in the marketplace. And it's already in the bank drawing interested before the first tree is cut.

Another advantage: consulting foresters will carry you through the entire timber sale process, from estimating the value of the timber to recommending the most ecologically sound harvest methods to soliciting the sealed bids to drawing up the contract to overseeing the clean-up/road retirement.

Oh, and beware of "diameter limit cuts" where trees below a certain diameter are left. People generally assume that the smaller trees are younger, but often they're roughly the same age as the bigger trees. So, this kind of cut will leave you with a stand of poorer genetic (slower growing) trees.

Good luck with your sale.

southerngurl · #17 05/08/05, 10:24 AM

50/50 is a good deal. My dad does that and mom always gripes because we don't get enough, LOL (dad's a logger). Ask for references and see if you can see any land he has cut in the past. My dad has an excellent reputation, because he cares about what he's doing. If you get a really high offer be wary, there are crooked loggers too. If they have their own sawmill, they can rip you off. It doesn't sound like you have much timber? Usually they can't afford to even move their equiptment unless it is a good bit.

Maggie10 · #18 05/08/05, 05:13 PM

I'd be sure your morgage allows you to log--out here you can't usually do it unless the money goes to the lein holder. I wouldn't go with the first guy I talked to either, without getting several bids and references. Anywhere there is logging there are plenty of people getting taken advantage of. If the guy that approached you is honest he won't mind your checking him out. If he pressures you there is probably something wrong. I'd be sure to get all the promises in writing and get your check directly from the mill. I'v seen a lot more new people unhappy with loggers than happy, largely because they don't do their homework and grab the first offer that comes along. Maggie

BCR · #19 05/08/05, 09:17 PM

Maggie, where is it you live? Can you tell me more about why the lein holder gets the surface owner's rights?

Also, I urge you to get it in writing in DETAIL(every little one). I took the gas well guy's word for not cutting down an old apple tree and a few locusts. He said if they did he'd re-plant them himself. Well, let's just say it was a good thing I didn't take his word for anything else in the deal! And no he never re-planted them. Did make it easy to turn the company in for bad practices on re-grading and the inspector dinged them... and then they sold out in the state altogether. I didn't get truly ripped off of much, but it sure makes me not trust anyone any more.

Maggie10 · #20 05/08/05, 10:21 PM

I live in NE Washington state. The lien holder doesn't have the right to the trees unless he has retained the cutting rights, but the standing timber is considered part of the morgaged property and can not be sold if the morgage states the loan must be paid for in full before any logging is done. In this case the lein holder will usually release this hold if he gets the profit. This is used to reduce the amount of the morgage. This is much more common in our area than no mention of the trees, if the property has marketable timber.

This is common because people would buy property on land contracts with little down, log and leave. The seller was left with no timber, land that was a mess and foreclosure costs.

Sorry if I confused you, Maggie