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  #1  
Old 05/01/05, 12:04 AM
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Location: Carthage, Texas
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Off the 'tax grid'

Someone mentioned several days ago on the "homesteading to the extreme!!!" thread about going off the grid, AND off the tax grid. I've been wondering, does such a critter exist??? I guess if you're squatting on someone else's property, you could escape property taxes, for a while anyways. But long term improvements would be counterproductive, imho, if it doesn't belong to you.

Is there anywhere in NA where you can 'own' property, yet have no property tax burdens??? I can fly under the radar on a lot of taxing issues, but can't hide the fact that I own real estate and all the improvements. (Did have my home 'hidden' for 13 years from the property tax people, till I got a real estate developer mad, by not 'giving' him my land for a pittance)...

phil

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  #2  
Old 05/01/05, 12:13 AM
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not pay taxes? how un-american . I hear there are no property taxes near Tok, Alaska. Then again there is little reason to pay taxes there.

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  #3  
Old 05/01/05, 02:25 AM
 
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Hm... I guess I'm a total geek, but I think that as long as you use any public service or item that's paid for with tax dollars, it's not right to weasel out of paying taxes. There are more than enough legal loopholes and exceptions to take advantage of, that should be good enough. Now, complaining about taxes being way too high, that's always in fashion and perfectly acceptable

When it comes to tax complaints, I always think of the guy who went on and on about how he's getting around paying this tax and that while he sat in his car and impatiently waited for the county snow plow to clear the road for him. We have people like that around here. They still pay property taxes though

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  #4  
Old 05/01/05, 02:34 AM
 
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As long as you live outside the borough's in Alaska, you don't pay property tax, or have to deal with building or zoning regulations. You would be off grid, but your property would be yours. :-)

Deb

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  #5  
Old 05/01/05, 04:16 AM
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Do the Menonites Pay taxes?

Quote:
the Mennonites hold fast to their culture and strict beliefs while continuing to assist the commerce, carpentry, engineering, and agriculture industries. The Mennonites emerged during the Radical Reformation of the 16th century in Northern Europe. Persecuted throughout the ages for their beliefs, particularly their refusal to pay land taxes or support the military,
Or does the "church" pay it?
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  #6  
Old 05/01/05, 07:34 AM
 
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I have studied this issue. It is true that their are places in the lower 48 that you can live without property taxes. I looked at a property in northern NY by the canadian border that you only had tax on 5 of the 56 acres. This was due to the fact that it was part in a township and part in an unincorporated area. But this with time will change. Also you can move to Nevada. In that state you can pay a fee and recieve a Allodial title or land patent. This fee is 10% of the cost of the property. No loan or mortgage can be on the property. With This title you hold clear rights to the land "no corporate rights for the county remain".

In other states the land is owned by the corporation that is the county. So when you buy land you get a deed not a title. With a deed you get to claim full profit from improvements to, the sale of, or disposition of; the land on the deed. But not ownership. That is retained by the grantor of the deed "The county in most cases". This is not a problem for most people due to the fact that they do not hold true deed control. This is held by the bank. So to them it is of little consequence.

So with all this said to "opt out" of local taxes is for the most part impossible. This is why they can impose zoning, codes, and usage limits because you only hold a deed not title to the parcel. If you don't believe this talk to a real estate attorney. You are still subject to "English Common Law". Now the "king" is the State. The "lord" is the County. The the "regency" is the town. The "surf" is you. But here in the grand ol'e USA we elect who runs the place.......

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  #7  
Old 05/01/05, 07:41 AM
 
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Mennonites I have known do pay their property and sales taxes. They don't want to pay 'war taxes', also known as personal income tax. They get around it by being willing to live at an income just below the taxable level, whatever that might be for their size family. Have never known one to work 'under the table' to avoid taxes.

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  #8  
Old 05/01/05, 08:49 AM
 
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I've lived in many states. Believe me, if there are no property taxes the state makes it up in other ways: income, vehical tax, user fees--you don't really get out of it.

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  #9  
Old 05/01/05, 09:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanb999
I have studied this issue. It is true that their are places in the lower 48 that you can live without property taxes. I looked at a property in northern NY by the canadian border that you only had tax on 5 of the 56 acres. This was due to the fact that it was part in a township and part in an unincorporated area. But this with time will change. Also you can move to Nevada. In that state you can pay a fee and recieve a Allodial title or land patent. This fee is 10% of the cost of the property. No loan or mortgage can be on the property. With This title you hold clear rights to the land "no corporate rights for the county remain".

In other states the land is owned by the corporation that is the county. So when you buy land you get a deed not a title. With a deed you get to claim full profit from improvements to, the sale of, or disposition of; the land on the deed. But not ownership. That is retained by the grantor of the deed "The county in most cases". This is not a problem for most people due to the fact that they do not hold true deed control. This is held by the bank. So to them it is of little consequence.

So with all this said to "opt out" of local taxes is for the most part impossible. This is why they can impose zoning, codes, and usage limits because you only hold a deed not title to the parcel. If you don't believe this talk to a real estate attorney. You are still subject to "English Common Law". Now the "king" is the State. The "lord" is the County. The the "regency" is the town. The "surf" is you. But here in the grand ol'e USA we elect who runs the place.......
i live in new york and i pay taxes on everything ......where does this phantom land exist? mink
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  #10  
Old 05/01/05, 11:36 AM
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Actually, in Tok, Alaska, you can be on grid and pay no property taxes. However, electricity up there costs a LOT more than in any place down here. When we lived there, up to 1990, it was 25 cents a KWH, and I'm sure it's gone up, as the electricity for Tok is produced locally from a couple of huge diesel generators. Alaska, outside the boroughs, has very low taxes, because the state operates to a large extent on royalties from the oil fields. As that tapers off, the state will have to replace that money with funds from elsewhere. It will be hard to replace it by raising taxes, though, because when the oil tapers off, so with the overall income of the state, as a lot of jobs will be lost. It already costs a lot more to live in places like Tok, with it's extreme climate, and the great distances between towns. Also, unless you are raising almost all of your food, you'd have to do much of your shopping in either Fairbanks or Anchorage, which both have sales taxes.

I don't think there's any place where you can be totally free of the costs of living.

Kathleen (who IS going off line, but not until May 4)

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  #11  
Old 05/01/05, 12:22 PM
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Live in a boat?

HOLD IT! This from Idaho.

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The Circuit Breaker is an income-based benefit for individuals 65+, disabled or widowed at any age, blind, fatherless or motherless children under 18 years of age, former prisoner of war/hostage, veteran with a 10%+ service-connected disability or a veteran receiving a VA pension for a nonservice-connected disability.

If you qualify, the State of Idaho pays all or part of the property taxes on your primary residence and up to one acre of land. The benefit is calculated based on a sliding scale according to your income. Application must be received by April 15th of each year. Contact the Ada County Assessor at 287-7200 for more information or to receive and application.

Hardship Exemptions (63-711) for prior year taxes, are considered on a case-by-case basis and granted at the discretion of the County Commissioners at public hearing, based upon the financial status of the applicant and other related circumstances. The property owner can apply at any time of the year at the Commissioners’ Office.
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  #12  
Old 05/01/05, 02:04 PM
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Move to Mexico.

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  #13  
Old 05/01/05, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mink
i live in new york and i pay taxes on everything ......where does this phantom land exist? mink
I think if I remember correctly it was on the northeast side of New Bremen. about 10 miles south of Fort Drum. The land was 1/2 mile from power and 7 or 8 miles for pavement. It was really pretty but logged off mostly and overpriced for what it was. They wanted 60 thousand, I think parshally due to the tax situation.

You can find forgotten corners in the lower 48, But you really gotta be out in the boonies. NW Maine has the same type of thing but you could be 60 miles to a town of 500 and more than 100 miles to a hospital. No roads in winter and Services are nonexistant. But then the taxes are little or nothing. One just has to decide on the level of convience they are willing to pay for.
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  #14  
Old 05/02/05, 10:21 AM
 
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To those who say we should pay taxes on our property to pay for 'things' provided by the local/state government: Even if I don't use them, I'm required to pay, and if I don't, the 'king' can take possesion of 'my' property and kick me off. That's not ownership - that's rent! And we call this FREEDOM!?!? stanb999 is absolutly correct on all counts.

As for paying taxes for the things we use, fine. But my kids don't go to public school - so I have to pay twice for my kid's education - once at the place they DON'T go, and again to where they DO go!

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  #15  
Old 05/02/05, 12:12 PM
 
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I believe that if you live in a travel trailer and just stay rented or borrowed land and don't earn a reportable income you can live tax free. Of course most goods are taxed one way or another so you would pay taxes on what you consume.

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  #16  
Old 05/02/05, 04:46 PM
 
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In Louisiana, if the total value of your domicile does not exceed $75K, you are covered by Homestead Exemption, and not subject to property taxes.

I know several folks, that most of the taxes taxes they pay, are sales taxes.

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