PA is Starting an Animal Identification System.. ?? Big Brother ??

Helena · #1 03/14/05, 06:02 PM

Received in the mail today a packet from Penn State wanting us to put an "X" on the map they sent to where we live and tell them how many and what animals we have. We only have a small homestead..no big dairy farm here. It is so if there is an animal disease outbreak they can locate all of us to "protect" us and our animals ? I don't like the idea of anyone knowing what animals I raise. Will it come to the point that I won't be able to sell my animals at public auction, buy feed at the local feed store, or have a vet come to the homestead or show my animals at the fair in the summer unless I have their identification number. I'm thinking..does history repeat itself...WW II. etc. Just makes you wonder...or am I getting paranoid ???

Peace n Quiet · #2 03/14/05, 06:08 PM

Wow, I would be questioning their reasons for needing to know. Has anyone else received this packet? I live in NE PA too, but haven't gotten one. I know that if I do, I'll be calling the Ag dept to find out what's behind it.

Cyngbaeld · #3 03/14/05, 06:12 PM

From what I have read happening elsewhere, the gov's way of 'protecting' you is to forcibly cull all your animals, sick or not. I would not fill out the form, t'were me.

travlnusa · #4 03/14/05, 07:15 PM

In Wisconsin, it has been explained to me that it is currently a voluntary program, but will become mandatory (2006????) for ANY size farm.

I am not sure if the animal is born and killed on farm would have to be tagged, but anything leaving the farm alive will be. I was told that would include animals going to locker for processing and returning to the same farm.

When I asked WI Dept, I was told, as you were, this is to be able to quickly react to an outbreak of anything. They will also be able to track back to souce any outbreaks of Mad Cow, etc....

Of course anyone can choose not to comply, but I have no idea what the emforcement would be.

AnnaS · #5 03/14/05, 07:24 PM

It is all states, it will be required for any livestock that leaves its birthplace, even to go to the vet or a show. Info below:

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/...tsheet.shtml#8

Travlnusa, I don't know what the exact punishment for non-compliance will be, but at the meeting I was at, Dr. Cindy Wolf did say that there would be "compliance police" and that "some people would be made examples".

foxtrapper · #6 03/16/05, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helena

Will it come to the point that I won't be able to sell my animals ...unless I have their identification number.

Yes, for that very reason. Lots of livestock diseases are spread uncontrollably around this country as a result. Controlling that is the sole reason for the program.

superduperchickenman · #7 03/16/05, 10:42 AM

It's poison, all the small homesteaders here are file 13 ing it, its to eliminate the small fry in leu of the big guy...

private use, private sells, we don't produce enough to effect the public intrest anyway...

I mean, why should I tag my stuff with someone elses label????

Communism...

when I went to school, I placed my name on my goods,,,,

freedom, is the oppurtunity to make mistakes...

Helena · #8 03/16/05, 10:57 AM

Got some good thoughts on this question..Thanks.. But...I guess what bothers me really is that now "someone" knows what I have in my barn. Not that I really care who knows...but don't I ??This might be all science fiction on my part but say this happens. The governement want to raise the price of say...chicken. They need to kill off every chicken in the US because of a suppose chicken outbreak of chicken measles !! I know it stupid and simple but..you get the picture. the only way you can buy chicken is through the Uncle Sam super market. i don't know...the world is getting to complicated for me. Ah....for a simplier life. (actually thought I had found one)

diane · #9 03/16/05, 11:42 AM

Helena........I understand completely. My mind has gone down that same path and it is not a pretty picture is it. In Michigan it is not voluntary if you want to buy, sell or transport to anything other than a terminal facility (slaughterhouse). We were getting up in years and our haying equipment was getting to the point it was unfixable and this was kind of the last straw for us and we got out of livestock except for chickens that are born, live and die right here and NO.......I didn't even fill out the farm census.

I try to be a pretty positive, upbeat person. I see no benefit to this program except to make it harder for the little guy. We are being regulated right into extinction and there doesn't seem to be a single thing we can do about it.

Jane in southwest WI · #10 03/16/05, 12:51 PM

According to information in a recent FSA newsletter I got for Vernon county, WI, in WI everyone who has horses, chickens, cattle, etc. (not dogs and cats) is suppose to "register their premises" by Nov. 2005. It mentions fines if you do not. website: http://www.wiid.org

I want to raise chickens someday, for our own use, but now my husband doesn't want to because it would force us to put our information in their "secure" database. I know we already in databases, but this is yet another huge violation of rights - I mean come on, we don't intend to sell to the public and they are still forcing this us? I am wondering if they will force our Amish neighbors into this as well?

woodsrunner · #11 03/16/05, 01:07 PM

http://pages.britishlibrary.net/patgardiner/outlaw.htm

wy0mn · #12 03/16/05, 05:41 PM

This can't be good. It sounds like small farmers need a petition. You know there are programs started for the best of intentions, and yet, abuse occurs. We're not farmers...yet, but we would not want Big Brother knowing what critters we have. It simply isn't anyone else's business.

Wanda · #13 03/16/05, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wy0mn

This can't be good. It sounds like small farmers need a petition. You know there are programs started for the best of intentions, and yet, abuse occurs. We're not farmers...yet, but we would not want Big Brother knowing what critters we have. It simply isn't anyone else's business.

APHIS had meetings all over the us last year to solicit public input. It was published in the papers and mentioned on almost all boards about livestock production. It is a little late in the game now to be outraged about it. The id part will not efect anyone unless the animal leaves there birth farm. If you move them or sell them you will then have to comply.

antiquestuff · #14 03/16/05, 07:14 PM

Kind of funny sooo many did not hear about those meetings....intentional maybe?

antiquestuff · #15 03/16/05, 07:16 PM

Oh, this is funny-cause in revelations, you cannot buy/sell/ and I believe move around without the "mark"-really makes me wonder when now you won't be able to move animals around without this tag-get where this might be heading? Okay, paranoia/Biblical speculation over for now-lol.

superduperchickenman · #16 03/16/05, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antiquestuff

Oh, this is funny-cause in revelations, you cannot buy/sell/ and I believe move around without the "mark"-really makes me wonder when now you won't be able to move animals around without this tag-get where this might be heading? Okay, paranoia/Biblical speculation over for now-lol.

it's no secret, it a Mark on a Beast.

Quint · #17 03/16/05, 10:36 PM

If you aren't selling the stuff commercially tell Big Brother to suck it long and hard.

I'd like to think that one of these days the American people will actually stand up and jab the ice pick of Liberty through the eye socket of Big Brother when he decides to rape them in the name of their safety rather than just passively bending over and presenting for him.

I'm just a little disgusted and cynical today.

mtboy · #18 03/17/05, 03:22 AM

It is the understanding of the Ag office out here that it will be mandatory even if the animal is born on your property and never leaves.

They quoted this
“The NAIS is voluntary so producers and other stakeholders can participate in the design, development, and testing of the system to ensure practical solutions evolve. To achieve the goal of 48–hour tracebacks, ALL producers and affected industry segments MUST eventually PARTICIPATE.”

They said as they understand it, includes just about all animals from goats to even a rabbit. Not dog or cat but just about everything else. I asked what if the only thing I have is a few rabbits that are only for my use and do not leave the property? They thought it would include those but said wait until they get it all set up.

I'm not a farmer but seems this was not widly publicized out here last year.

As far as paranoia goes, read the book called Hitlers Willing Executioners, Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust it is very chilling. People always ask how did Hitler get the people to go along with his plan? Well this book documents that. It is very similar to the very things we see going on here. He slowly took control of everything including the farms. He used fear and "the security of the nation and her people" to get them to go along. I know I will be labled paranoid, but I challang you to read a little history of what Germany was prior to Hitler and study how he changed Germany into the Nazi State. Very scrary similarities in many cases. Take it for what you will.

P.S. In what way would say 4 rabbits that do not leave the property be a threat of Hoof and Mouth or mad cow? And if they do not, why would animals that do not pose a threat need to be tracked and numbered.
Mtboy

reluctantpatriot · #19 03/17/05, 09:26 AM

If they want to trespass upon my land and mark my property, they will receive a mark of their own that they probably won't survive. I refuse to submit and I refuse to comply with this order. I take invasion of privacy and the desire to control and take my property very seriously. If they have to be dealt with using extreme prejudice, so be it.

Food safety is an individual concern, not that of the government. So far I have seen more death and severe illness come from government inspected facilities than I have from the small farmers who sell thier products locally.

I do not comply with that which restricts or takes away my liberty and freedom, mostly, to be left alone when I am not doing harm to anyone.

Jane in southwest WI · #20 03/17/05, 01:14 PM

Here is an excerpt from the information I found for Wisconsin:

How will DATCP enforce compliance?
DATCP will promote voluntary compliance until mandatory compliance on November 1, 2005.
Penalties for violations are set by statute, equivalent to other animal health and food safety laws,
generally ranging from $200 to $5,000 penalties. Also, an individual may not be compensated for
indemnification (paid for animals put down) during a disease outbreak if they do not have a premises
ID. Exhibiting, selling or slaughtering livestock from unregistered premises is prohibited if USDA
mandates premises registration or all surrounding states impose the same prohibition.

(They didn't spell out DATCP so I don't know what that is).

Here in SW WI, I remember hearing about meetings for the public about animal ID but they were not nearby - they were in far-off corners of the state. I think they were asking for public comment as a formality and don't really care what people think because they are forcing this on everyone anyway. I agree with several of the previous posters - this is very very bad.