Dilapidated house options

lemon · #1 07/19/15, 03:37 PM

We have been looking for a place for awhile but end up looking at places that will be an issue when the winter snow hits (back roads and/or hills) or an hour commute to work that were in our price range. There is a place that I like the location. A little bit of a hill but not horrible and on a street that shouldn't be left snow covered for long. It is in my children's school district already and the price isn't bad. The issue is it has a house that as it stands is not livable. I was wondering about trying to rehab it or tear it down and use the existing foundation to build on. Our county is particular about their codes and I was wondering if rehabbing the current structure would help get around em. Septic in our area is hard to get approved cause the land doesn't like to pass the perk test. Would a septic tank from 1940 even be salvageable? I'm lost. Sorry. Just wondering other thoughts. Maybe just pull out mobile home there and park it

The floor joists I know are rotted on one end on the north west corner. Kids have broken some windows allowing water in. I haven't gone inside cause I was too chicken to go by myself. Lol. Outside There is an old toilet seat on a concrete structure which must have been a fancy outhouse. And 4 other buildings to dispose of or fix on the property. It looks like a stone guy used to live there cause there is alot of stone foundations and walls around.

kasilofhome · #2 07/19/15, 04:04 PM

Get an inspection on your dime... interview them you want a tough person who knows the codes... and the person needs also have the skill to give ideas as to fixes and cost... if you can't find that in one person add a general contractor to go with you and the inspector.. Get the report and estimated together.

Yea it's money... I did this and it saved my but the results was I paid for three inspections but put money into one.... walked from the other two.. some might say the extra two grand was a waste... not me.

TnAndy · #3 07/19/15, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon

Our county is particular about their codes and I was wondering if rehabbing the current structure would help get around em.

The best place to have this discussion is at the county building codes office. At some point, structures are so bad, it is not considered a 'remodel', but a 'rebuild'.....meaning you have to meet current codes for everything....not one single part will be grandfather'ed in.....not even the foundation, however solid it may seem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon

Septic in our area is hard to get approved cause the land doesn't like to pass the perk test. Would a septic tank from 1940 even be salvageable?

You're assuming there IS a septic tank. Based on your other observation of the toilet seat, there well may NOT have been one....or a very minimal system (like a lagoon type with no field bed)

You'd best approach this eyes WIDE open, armed with plenty of info, and fully aware it could be a real money pit.

po boy · #4 07/19/15, 05:59 PM

If this is not a cash purchase or owner finance, it would be a good idea for you to find out if the property qualifies for a loan before you spend any money.

Wolf mom · #5 07/19/15, 06:41 PM

You really do need to know the codes of the county where you want to buy. I live in a '50's house whose septic doesn't meet current codes but is grandfathered in.
In some places if you save the footprint and build on it, it's considered a remodel and different codes are in effect. In other counties it would be treated as a new build.

Some places you can't have a mobile, or they have to be of a certain square footage.

Make sure your contract is written contingent upon a certified and accepted perc test. There are other systems, but are a lot more expensive so the sales price could be reduced.

And remember, some day you will want to sell your place, even if now it may be your forever home, and not building to code or going around them could break a deal.

lemon · #6 07/19/15, 10:28 PM

I think the outhouse went with the really old looking 2 room structure that has a chimney. The house has running water so I will try and follow the plumbing and see where it goes to find out about what is there.
It would be an owner finance or maybe outright cash. I was hesitant to get on the county's radar. I can't seem to find the rules anywhere online. I was hoping that a lot would be grandfathered in like the septic..I know that if I move my mobile home in they want the existing structure torn down first.

gibbsgirl · #7 07/20/15, 01:11 AM

I would seriously consider you consider looking for something else. An inspection is a good idea.

But, it sounds like you don't have limitless funds.

The last place we bought needed a lot of work. This time the guys told me to hire help to do the work. It was a total bust. The only guys i could find were almost completely incompetent to do work and wanted way to much to do the work. Multiple contractors.

The thing that saved it was the guys on my family could do all the work themselves. So they fired everybody, which was awkward, and then did the work themselves. It was stressful cause they didn't really have the extra time with their work schedules. But, they got it done.

My point is, if you can',t confidently do everything that needs doing yourself, you could find yourself in a real pickle with a homestead that needs extensive work.

That may not be your situation. But, I just thought i',d throw it out there as my thoughts in case it helped you.

Don't be discouraged though. Sometimes it takes a long time to find the right place.

geo in mi · #8 07/20/15, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon

We have been looking for a place for awhile but end up looking at places that will be an issue when the winter snow hits (back roads and/or hills) or an hour commute to work that were in our price range. There is a place that I like the location. A little bit of a hill but not horrible and on a street that shouldn't be left snow covered for long. It is in my children's school district already and the price isn't bad. The issue is it has a house that as it stands is not livable. I was wondering about trying to rehab it or tear it down and use the existing foundation to build on. Our county is particular about their codes and I was wondering if rehabbing the current structure would help get around em. Septic in our area is hard to get approved cause the land doesn't like to pass the perk test. Would a septic tank from 1940 even be salvageable? I'm lost. Sorry. Just wondering other thoughts. Maybe just pull out mobile home there and park it

The floor joists I know are rotted on one end on the north west corner. Kids have broken some windows allowing water in. I haven't gone inside cause I was too chicken to go by myself. Lol. Outside There is an old toilet seat on a concrete structure which must have been a fancy outhouse. And 4 other buildings to dispose of or fix on the property. It looks like a stone guy used to live there cause there is alot of stone foundations and walls around.

I took the liberty of highlighting the red flags in case you missed them....

You don't say where you live, so you will have to find out the codes and ordinances where you live, in order to make a good decision. In most places the codes will require you to rebuild or rehab up to existing codes--which usually defer to National electrical and plumbing standards--and to get a final inspection and occupation certificete before you move in. In most cases, you will probably have to gut the whole thing down to the walls and joists--strip out the plumbing and wiring--and you end up with old and rotted lumber as a beginning house frame(with rusted nails to boot..). So you might as well have torn or burned it down and started fresh.

If the land doesn't pass a perc test, how will you ever be able to have a productive homestead on that kind of soil????? And, how much stone has worked its way up since it was last picked up?????

The first rule of homesteading is that your soil will become your bank account. It, too, is in the red before you even start. I would pass on this one, just my own opinion....

geo

Fishindude · #9 07/20/15, 08:14 AM

From your questions, it sounds as if you don't know a lot about building or construction. With that in mind .... In my opinion, the repairs to make this place livable are way more than you need to be taking on.

Might be different if you were a highly skilled trades person that knew how to rebuild the place and could get a lot of it done with your own labor.

Id' pass too.

trulytricia · #10 07/20/15, 08:35 AM

Sounds rough to me.

But I'd like to mention it is now legal in some places to install an indoor composting toilet . You would have to check.

Crankin · #11 07/20/15, 10:20 AM

My wife have done both, gutted a old house and built from the ground up. We are not trades people but we are really good with tools. On the 1912 house we repaired floor joists, plumbed, insulated, roofed, put in a furnace and extra vents...7 years worth, almost every night til 9, while we were living in it. Then we bought a piece of land with a old septic tank and a LOT of trash on it and cleaned it up and built a 900 sq. ft. house to code. We bought a lot of used materials to help with the cost.

Trying to fix up an old house will test your patience in every way. Building, even on an existing foundation is hard to get passed unless a structural engineer inspects the foundation and writes a letter to the inspection office. (about $250-$500) A 40 year old septic tank is probably not going to be approved because of the perk problem so I would count on a new system too.

I still want to encourage you to give it a try. It sounds like there are a lot of things you like about the property. Start with the county and the septic tank. find out what they want you to do. Maybe just a new drain field will be needed for the approval.

Crankin

For my tips about automotive maintenance,
email info@crankinengines.com

soulsurvivor · #12 07/20/15, 10:20 AM

Maybe check on it to see if it's listed as a historical property. If so, that's a whole other box of toys to play with. Nothing about this adventure sounds like a quick turn around for moving in.

MichaelZ · #13 07/20/15, 10:55 AM

You might be a lot better off money wise getting the better house on the bad roads and then getting a 4WD or AWD to get to work in the winter.

Maura · #14 07/20/15, 11:01 AM

The house we bought two years needed work, more than we realized. We work on the house on weekends. Been doing it for two years and needed much less work than you are looking at with the dilapidated house. I think by the time you rebuild the house you probably could have built a new one. But, have it inspected so that you can at least get an idea of what you’d be stepping into. It may not be as bad as it looks. If the skeleton is good, it may be redeemable.

Harry Chickpea · #15 07/20/15, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon

We have been looking for a place for awhile but end up looking at places that will be an issue when the winter snow hits (back roads and/or hills) or an hour commute to work that were in our price range. There is a place that I like the location. A little bit of a hill but not horrible and on a street that shouldn't be left snow covered for long. It is in my children's school district already and the price isn't bad. The issue is it has a house that as it stands is not livable. I was wondering about trying to rehab it or tear it down and use the existing foundation to build on. Our county is particular about their codes and I was wondering if rehabbing the current structure would help get around em. Septic in our area is hard to get approved cause the land doesn't like to pass the perk test. Would a septic tank from 1940 even be salvageable? I'm lost. Sorry. Just wondering other thoughts. Maybe just pull out mobile home there and park it

The floor joists I know are rotted on one end on the north west corner. Kids have broken some windows allowing water in. I haven't gone inside cause I was too chicken to go by myself. Lol. Outside There is an old toilet seat on a concrete structure which must have been a fancy outhouse. And 4 other buildings to dispose of or fix on the property. It looks like a stone guy used to live there cause there is alot of stone foundations and walls around.

If you have to get building supplies at Lowes or Home Depot, forget rehabbing. When a house is so derelict that it is not livable, it is
A: a storage shed
B: a source for some usable material
C: a place that WILL injure you given enough time
D: a fire department controlled burn
E: a liability

There are tons of old derelict houses around here. 90% of them fit the above. Abandoned houses generally become unlivable at somewhere between five and ten years and unsalvageable soon after.

Michael W. Smith · #16 07/20/15, 03:51 PM

Could you have a friend go in to the code department and find out what rules apply. I've been told around here, an old septic tank is grandfathered in - provided you rehab the old building.

Of course, if the old septic is plugged and doesn't work - that's not going to help you much.

I'd have a friend get the rules and regulations. Is ANY part of the house rehabitable? Depending on how long it's been empty, it may be as simple as making sure the electric box is up to code, get the electric installed and start rehabbing.

If you or your family can't do any of the work - you are probably better off on passing. But if you can, have your friend research the codes, and if it is doable, pay for an inspection to see what all problems there really are.

Rotten floor joists in one part of the house is one thing - rotten beams and sills is another.

How long has the house been empty and when did people last live in it?

As has been said, if the foundation and supports are good, things may not be as bad as they look. On the other hand, things could be alot worse they they look too - you would need a QUALIFIED inspector to look things over - one that is working for YOU and to guide you in your decision. Not just one that you hire and has a "I don't care attitude."

Be forewarned that old houses are notoriously out of plumb.

If part of the house is fixable - could you fix up one side to live in while you rehab the other? Or if the other half isn't fixable, could you fix up the one side, and tear down the other part and add on?

Depending on your location, some places have almost no codes at all, where as other places will want EVERYTHING up to the newest code up to date.

Also what is your definition of "The issue it has a house as it stands that is not livable." If you have ever seen the fancy "Flip This House" kind of shows, many of the places that the new owners deem "unlivable" is unlivable to them - because they live in a mansion. I've seen many houses and rooms that they have gutted that are in better condition than the house I live in. Not because it was unlivable - but because they are looking to sell a house that after their remodeling - looks brand new.

miraclemant · #17 07/23/15, 06:21 PM

I was a land developer for 15 years (ended b/c I was in a coma for 3 months), anyway, get yourself a copy of the county codes.
As a developer, I knew the codes BETTER that the county employees, I had to, my livelihood depended on it.
Many, many times the county employee would tell me one thing, then I would tell them they were wrong, that the code said such and such, and EVERY time, they would want to start an argument, I would simply tell them code and section and usually page number that supported my position. You should have seen the look on their faces when they looked it up, and realized this guy knew what he was talking about.
One time a county employee even had the gall to tell me she knew it wasn't in the codes, but that she "felt" as a land developer, I should spend an extra $100,000 and do such and such. believe me, I told her if it was in the codes (even if I did not agree with it, I would comply), but if this was nothing more than her "feeling" I told her where she could shove her "feeling".
Anyway, do NOT trust what they tell you, demand to see the code in writing, and then buy a copy if you don't already have a copy. Better yet, if you are getting serious about a property (and before making ANY offers), get a copy of the codes for that county. It will save you money and many headaches.