Fencing for predator protection

[FarmerKat]

I would like to get some input on what has worked for you fence-wise when it comes to predators. Right now we have a woven field fence with a single hot wire about 8-10 inches off the ground on the inside. We keep pigs & chickens inside this area.

We will be moving and creating a new pasture for our animals. I am very happy with the fence set up we have for keeping our animals in. However, I think the new place may have more predator pressure than we have here. We are not moving far and we will have the same predators (coyote, fox, bear, skunk, racoon, etc.) but while we catch a glimpse of the foxes and coyotes occasionally here (and have never actually seen a bear on our property), sightings are quite common on our new land (including frequent sightings of bears).

I am thinking about putting a second hot wire 8-10 inches off the ground on the outside and one strand on top of the fence. It would not be hard to do since we will already be running electric on the inside.

Would the added wire on outside & top help any or is it waste time/money?

I know that unless I completely confine my chickens there will always be a chance of a predator getting them but I simply want to minimize the odds (they are locked up at night in a secure coop).

[Bearfootfarm]

Would the added wire on outside & top help any or is it waste time/money?

They will help a lot in preventing climbing predators from entering

I'd keep the bottom wire at 6" or so to prevent diggers.

Keep it just high enough for the deck of a mower to fit underneath and it will be easy to keep weeds down

[highlands]

Outside low and top high are what I would add to that for wire. The other thing I would add is livestock working dogs. Fences are a suggestion. Dogs back it up with force. Predators dumb or brave enough to come inside our fences get eaten by our dog pack. How many dogs depends on your predator pressure, type and area you're protecting. The rule of thumb is you just have to be harder to pray on than the buffet down the road.

-Walter

[Moboiku]

Agree with Highlands. We have all the predators you mentioned except bears. We have good fencing but also have two dogs and haven't lost a chicken in 3 years. The chickens free-range from dawn to dusk.

[gibbsgirl]

For bears, my thought would be to search out bear proof door ideas online. You probably just need to be able to secure their coop from being easily accessed.

I don't know how electrical fencing works to fight predators. I think it's more effective at containing domesticated animals.

You don't need livestock guardian dogs to be effective against predators. I believe they are fairly valuable in a fight. But, we've had success with just regular dogs. Mostly shepherd types. Just the ongoing presence and scent of our dogs and the fact that they will chase predators, seems to have made our place less desireable to predators. There's several all around us, but the only ones I've ever had a problem with are hawks/falcons.

One thing, I have been wanting to add to the new place is solar powered motion sensor lights. I got a great deal on some ($30 each) at sam's club years ago and I was very happy with them.

They do a lot to run off all kinds of wild and/or predatory animals. I'd consider getting them and putting them not just at the coops, or barns, but out along the pasture fences. Sudden, blinding light is a great deterrent, and having it out away from the animals gives you extra space before the predator actually is within striking distance of your animals to try and run them off at that point.

Not to be cruel sounding, but whatever you do, consider the time and cost. If you are considering spending thousands of dollars to protect hundreds of dollars of animals, it doesn't make sense to immediately jump into installing stuff you aren't sure is the right equipment. You might want to test the waters a bit first and see how bad the predator pressures really are.

Like someone else already said, you don't have to have a foolproof system, you just have to be a less easy target than other options in the area.

[FarmerKat]

Originally Posted by gibbsgirl

For bears, my thought would be to search out bear proof door ideas online. You probably just need to be able to secure their coop from being easily accessed.

I don't know how electrical fencing works to fight predators. I think it's more effective at containing domesticated animals.

You don't need livestock guardian dogs to be effective against predators. I believe they are fairly valuable in a fight. But, we've had success with just regular dogs. Mostly shepherd types. Just the ongoing presence and scent of our dogs and the fact that they will chase predators, seems to have made our place less desireable to predators. There's several all around us, but the only ones I've ever had a problem with are hawks/falcons.

One thing, I have been wanting to add to the new place is solar powered motion sensor lights. I got a great deal on some ($30 each) at sam's club years ago and I was very happy with them.

They do a lot to run off all kinds of wild and/or predatory animals. I'd consider getting them and putting them not just at the coops, or barns, but out along the pasture fences. Sudden, blinding light is a great deterrent, and having it out away from the animals gives you extra space before the predator actually is within striking distance of your animals to try and run them off at that point.

Not to be cruel sounding, but whatever you do, consider the time and cost. If you are considering spending thousands of dollars to protect hundreds of dollars of animals, it doesn't make sense to immediately jump into installing stuff you aren't sure is the right equipment. You might want to test the waters a bit first and see how bad the predator pressures really are.

Like someone else already said, you don't have to have a foolproof system, you just have to be a less easy target than other options in the area.

I have not thought about the lights ... that may be something to look into.

The fencing is getting installed because I want to keep pigs on a pasture - so I need a way to keep them in. The field fence + electric inside of it has worked great for us. The cost of adding a wire on the outside is minimal compared to that. However, I totally get what you are saying about cost. That is why I am not too eager to jump into getting LGDs. I just don't know that in addition to what we spend on fencing, I can justify the cost of keeping several dogs to protect 3-4 pigs and a few dozen chickens.

We have a German Shepherd but unfortunately she is not chicken-safe (she killed one of my laying hens last year and occasionally she will decide to chase the chickens). She spends a lot of time in the pasture but only when we are around to keep an eye on her. We have just recently started letting her spend nights there after the chickens are locked up. And when we are gone, we keep her in her own section of the pasture separated by a portable electric fence. I do believe that the dog scent alone has helped keep predators off here.

[Moboiku]

Originally Posted by gibbsgirl

You don't need livestock guardian dogs to be effective against predators. I believe they are fairly valuable in a fight. But, we've had success with just regular dogs.

Oh yes - I guess I wasn't very specific in my post. I also don't have LGD's. My dogs are 40-pound mutts, adopted as adults from rescue organizations that allowed us a home trial. We did the home trial to be sure they were poultry safe. They have a dog house in the chicken yard and spend their nights there, but during the day they free roam our fenced property and go places with us as the pet dogs they are. Their scent remains in the chicken yard and acts as a deterrent around the clock, even when they are not there.

[highlands]

LGD is a job function, a title, not a breed or even a set of breeds.

We have LGHDs. They do livestock guarding and herding as well as other work on the farm. It's a job function called Livestock Working Dog rather than being limited to one small breed. There are valuable instincts that can be selected for but there is also training that goes into it to maximize the capabilities of the dogs.

-Walter

[Bearfootfarm]

LGD is a job function, a title, not a breed or even a set of breeds.

That's not true at all

"LGD" refers to specific breeds with a long history of protecting animals

"MUTT" is the proper name for what many like to call their "LGD" which is really just a yard dog that doesn't kill their animals

http://www.lgd.org/

Livestock Guardian Dog (LGD) breeds have been used for centuries to protect livestock from predators in Europe and Asia.

Some yard dogs can be of benefit, but that in no way makes them a true LGD, any more than putting them in a garage makes them a car

[Bearfootfarm]

I have not thought about the lights ... that may be something to look into.

Lights have no effect on predators and motion activated lights will often be activated by the wind more than by animals

A well designed and adaquately powered electric fence will stop any predator that can't or won't jump over it

[Moboiku]

Originally Posted by highlands

LGD is a job function, a title, not a breed or even a set of breeds.

-Walter

That really isn't correct. Dog breeds are divided by function. For example, there are Herding, Hunting, Livestock Guardians etc.

Over generations dogs have been selected for their specific strengths and you'll have far more success using a dog as a working dog if you stick to the breeds that do the job you need done. Border Collies are terrific sheep herding dogs. A poodle wouldn't be nearly as effective. Bloodhounds are especially good at sniffing out a trail and finding things. Sure, other breeds of dog also have a better sense of smell than humans but expecting a pug or Rottweiler to do as good a job as a Bloodhound is setting them up for failure.

Likewise, there are a number of breeds that have been bred for centuries to work as livestock guardians. Great Pyrenees, Maremma, Anatolian, Akbash, Karakachan are only a few. Without exception they are large breed dogs and while their guardian style may differ, they were bred to do a job: stay with a herd of animals and protect it from predators.

Other dogs *may* have some success guarding against predation as well. My own two dogs are 40-lb mutts whose presence alone has allowed a 100+ flock of chickens free-range for more than 3 years without losses. But they are NOT LGD's. They don't bond with their charges and stay with them around the clock. They don't gather the chickens behind them when facing a predator, or do patrols to ensure nothing is trying to get in. They keep the birds safe merely by their presence. No more, no less.

[MOgal]

My first thought was any fence capable of holding the dogs that will guard the critters, LGDs or trusted mutts. We've had both.

[TnAndy]

You can build a great fence, and that will slow them up....some.....but the final solution is what this raccoon is getting ready to find out...a Conibear 220 in a bucket with sardines for bait.



By the way, he is INSIDE the chicken lot. That is a 54" cattle panel buried 6", with 1" chicken wire that runs all the way up to a set of rafters that supports netting strung over the entire lot to slow down flying predators. The photo from above is several years old, but just this past week I took out 4 raccoons, 1 possum, and one hawk that manged to get inside the netted over yard area !

Build any kind of fence you want....trapping out from time to time is still a requirement IMHO.

[highlands]

Just because some organization makes up their own definition to promote their breed and takes over the term LGD does not change the fact that LGD is a job description, not a breed description. Moot point.

-Walter

[fishhead]

Wire and insulators aren't too expensive. I would go with a strand outside maybe 12" from the post and 8" above the ground. If your posts are wooden you can put your insulators on a board and when you need to move just flip them up and out of the way. I would also put a strand above the field fencing to prevent climb overs.

And the last thing I would do is put tin foil smeared with peanut butter or bacon grease to educate the local riff raff that the fence is something to be feared.

[FarmerKat]

Originally Posted by fishhead

Wire and insulators aren't too expensive. I would go with a strand outside maybe 12" from the post and 8" above the ground. If your posts are wooden you can put your insulators on a board and when you need to move just flip them up and out of the way. I would also put a strand above the field fencing to prevent climb overs.

And the last thing I would do is put tin foil smeared with peanut butter or bacon grease to educate the local riff raff that the fence is something to be feared.

I like your thinking

[gibbsgirl]

Me, too. Bait the bad guys! Too funny. Probably would be very effective against animals....

Unless it's something like that dinosaur in jurrasic park that kept testing all the fences, lol.

[Bearfootfarm]

Originally Posted by highlands

Just because some organization makes up their own definition to promote their breed and takes over the term LGD does not change the fact that LGD is a job description, not a breed description. Moot point.
-Walter

They didn't take over the term.

It's been used for generations to describe specialized dog breeds that go back thousands of years.

Calling your mutts "LGD's" is not accurate, and calling them "LGHD's" makes even less sense. because those jobs require totally different instincts.

You can call it a "moot point" if you like, but you'll still be wrong about the proper use of the term.

[highlands]

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

You can call it a "moot point" if you like, but you'll still be wrong about the proper use of the term.

You appear to not know what a moot point is and no, you're wrong. Thank you for demonstrating my point.

[gibbsgirl]

The lasts posts made me grin cause we just watched this video the other night that was discussing dog breeds.

YouTube

I have to say, I've had better dogs that were mutts than purebreds. But, i'll admit I have also owned more mutts. So, I don't know if that demonstrates that it's just from the statistics, or we've had more mutts because we've had a better experience with them.

Purebreds must be doing something right though, I guess, or else there wouldn't be so many people raising them and finding customers.