Running an Off the Grid Cabin on Propane?

[th_Wolverine]

I was looking at a Generac automatic backup Generator that runs off propane when I was at Home depot the other day. It got me thinking: the site I'm putting my cabin is way off the beaten path, putting a power line out there could get expensive. Has anyone had any experience running a home or cabin off a propane generator? 1 Gallon of Propane = 27 kWh (Kilowatt Hours) of electricity or so I'm told, so would it be a good way to stay off grid and be affordable enough to be cost effective?

[Johnny Dolittle]

Propane stove, propane refrigerator, propane hot water tank, propane lights....

....you just need a generator for occasional power and to charge batteries

[Old Vet]

You will need to have at least a 500 gallon tank to run it for a week. I have a 20 KVA generator and run it when the power is out. It may not be cost effective but you will have all the power you need.

[Nevada]

Running a generator is not cost effective for any length of time to speak of. Solar panels have come way down. Check out some of the fred480v sales at eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271841428621

Way under $1/watt.

[Cygnet]

500 gallons a week to run a house like a "modern" home perhaps. It's entirely possible to use propane as a backup for a solar or wind powered electric system, though, and you probably won't need a big "whole house" generator to do it. If you have a deep well, you may need something fairly sizable to run the well pump, but if you design the home with energy efficiency in mind, that big whole-house generator would be overkill.

There are a lot of substitutes and work-arounds for energy needs, though. I'd think it would be entirely doable if you were willing to make the lifestyle changes and sacrifices. i.e:

Instead of electric or gas heat, heat with a wood stove(s) as much as possible.

Propane fridge/freezer -- a small dometic or similar RV unit can keep your milk cold and your pizza frozen. (XXLarge pizza might not fit without being folded, but oh well.)

I ran a dometic fridge, plus heated a 10 gallon water heater for daily shower, for six months, with 20 gallons of propane. No exaggeration. I suspect it would have run a lot longer but the fridge sprang a leak.

You can have a root cellar (or cool basement) for fruits, veggies, eggs, etc., and instead of frozen meat, you could can your meat.

A propane water heater is only a bit more expensive than electric, depending on the current cost of propane.

No air conditioning, or at most, an evap cooler. If heat is an issue where you live, consider a finished basement to keep cool in. You can run a fan off a charged 12 volt battery and an inverter for several hours, too. (We have room air conditioners here, and my trailer has a small unit, but we often just sit outside on the porch.)

Power lighting and exhaust fans (over the stove) and the like with a few solar cells, and use high-efficiency lighting.

Pump water to a holding tank uphill of the house (or on the roof) so you don't need to keep a pressure tank pressurized; catch rainwater to minimize use of a well pump. Well pumps use a TON of electricity, particularly if they're deep.

Septic should be gravity fed. Otherwise, you'll need to make sure that the pump and grinder and assorted electric bits have enough power at the right times. (DIY power systems tend to be less reliable than the grid, so if the septic isn't gravity fed, you could run into a situation where an otherwise "routine" power outage is complicated by a sewage backup.)

If you have a basement or root cellar that needs a sump pump, figure out how you're going to make sure that the sump has reliable power.

How will you do your laundry? There are all kinds of solutions, but you'll need to pick one. (I don't recommend washing clothes by hand. Been there and done that. Hanging them up to dry, though, is an entirely practical solution.)

Electronic "toys" should be energy efficient -- watch the amount of power that your computer, TV, sound system, etc. draw. Keep them unplugged when not in use, because most electronics draw power even when they're supposedly off.

(Keep EVERYTHING unplugged when not in use. You'd be amazed at how much power that can save.)

FWIW -- The main cabin here was built in the late 70's/early 80's, and this area did not get power until the year 2000. The previous homeowners used a generator, as best we can tell, to power the well pump and a few energy-intensive appliances like a washing machine or vacuum, and power tools. Everything else either ran off propane and/or a bank of solar cells and 12 volt car batteries.

They heated with a wood stove, and had a propane space heater (built into the wall in the living room) for backup if they had to go into town.

It's a 2000 square foot home and was perfectly comfortable.

There is, indeed, a 500 gallon propane tank in the front yard. I can guarantee they were not filling that sucker every week, though. :-)

[Helena]

$$$$ !!!! T

[Cabin Fever]

Heck, we have an off-grid cabin and needed no generator or propane. Just some kerosene lights, woodstove for heat, hand pump well for water, hot water off the woodstove or Coleman stove.

[RoseW]

th Wolverine - you're not far from the property I have for sale. I have good hills there.

Is it possible to put up windmills? That was a thought with mine, along with solar.

Far as hot water - in the summer, copper tubing overhead might work nicely.

I'm an underground fan. Have you thought about covering part of it up? Sod roof? Heatsink floor? There also some very cool lighting systems that will direct light down a tube, giving you the option to have more insulation on top.

[7thswan]

Sure you can. Propane lights,reefer,heat,water heater ect. Many old campers had all gas even the light fictures . Just look arround. You can do without the gen. unless you want to charge batterys, say once a week. There are a heck of alot of gadgets that work on 12V.

[Nimrod]

A generator is most efficient when it is running a load near capacity. Sit down and figure out what loads you have to run simultaneously and size your genny to that. You may have to run your washer and well pump at the same time for instance. You can rotate running the other things. A freezer only needs to run a few hours out of 12.

Other posters have described ways to reduce your dependence on electricity. Usually these ways are more reliable than a genny. Consider what you are going to do if it won't start or blows up?

[||Downhome||]

Like nimrod has stated, if your drawing less the peak capacity, your paying more for what you are drawing.
Its due to the engines power curve.
Most houses need less the 5k of juice.
We have a 5500 rated and 8800 surge.
that gen vs a whole house 10 k will use a lot less fuel in the long haul.
May need to juggle loads but for the most part, fridge and freezer normally don't start at same time, if running the washer the pumps already at pressure,so by the time it kicks in the washers already running.
My point is most things with motors will not be starting all at once.
Motors are a big thing when running off a gen, when they start you get a huge serge, so a 1000 watt may initially draw 7500 watts.
You can see how that could be a problem with several starting at once.
It can be worked around, certain loads can be on timers so as they are off when others are being used.
You can also use start capacitors on motors to smooth out the surge.

I converted ours over to propane just last week, cost 30 dollars and took about 10 mins.
Works like a charm.
I have a video on my farms facebook page. rebelrisefarm.

It cost 24 for the fittings and cut and thread I needed installed to hook it up.
Still need a actual propane hose, another 30.

It would of cost a bit more had I not of had some of the fittings for the gen side.
though it could be done little different.

All in all I'm happy, Used generator 350, vacuum lockoff 30, fittings/valve 24, propane hose 30... grand total $434.

Does what we need, at close to max economy and leaves 10,000-434=9,566 to do something else with.

[Yvonne's hubby]

When I first started out I used my car battery for a power supply for a single light bulb in the cabin. I could run the light for four hours without a problem, four hours and ten minutes? had to push the car to start it in the morning. I had a propane fridge that used about a gallon of propane a month. We cooked and heated with wood, water was carried in jugs from the spring.

[HappyYooper]

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