starting over help

[newlife0323]

I am seriously thinking of homesteading and have been researching this for awhile. I have spent my life in law enforcement but have many skills like hunting, fishing, been cutting down trees for 30 years on side, carpentry, electric, plumbing, gardening and so on. I am looking for some help in questions I have to help with planning. I am so ready to move on and do what I have always wanted to do but didn't think it was possible or even done anymore until the Mountain Men and Alaska shows came on TV.

1. I am single male and wondering how much land in Ohio maybe West Virginia. I would like to be 98% self sufficient living off the land and growing own food?

2. Most important things I need to prepare to make the move?

3. pitfalls that others have made in the past that I can prepare for?

4. Equipment I would need to have in advance?

5. How much money I would need to get started after I already have land?

I have many more questions but this will get me started, Thanks for help in advance Tom:

[Miss Kay]

It doesn't have to be all or none. An experienced law enforcement officer should be able to find a job anywhere. I would focus on the area you want to live, research the available land and prices, and then make the move. I'd work as much or as little as needed to pay the bills while you begin to install your gardens, orchards, and fencing and building. 98% is a great goal but does it mean you failed if you only reach 50%, not in my opinion. This is a lifestyle and different for everyone. You should enjoy it rather than kill yourself trying to live some ideal outback sort of life. You may enjoy parts of it more than others so why not go with what brings you joy without beating yourself up on the parts you hate or are not good at. I'd rather see you start slow and blossom with the experiment rather than find yourself injured, broke, and without a job down the line. Anything is possible but just not overnight.

[FarmboyBill]

Trying to be 98% SS is a somewhat costly thing to do fairly rapidly, as Im assuming you would want to do.

To have cows to milk and for meat you need hay, a couple acres per animal per winter.

To have hogs to butcher, you need either a forest loaded with nut trees, or grain. IF you have to have grain, you need the equipment to raise and harvest it.

IF you plan to eat whole wheat bread, cerial, ect, That takes grain, either oats or wheat. Oats don't sprout as good as wheat.

Chickens and rabbits you could raise on sprouts or fodder as its called. That again takes grain.

A garden for yourself should likely be around an 1/2 acre. Another 1/2 acre for orchard and vines.

You don't say what your age is. That will determine what types of equipment you will need.

Most of the older police I see are way over weight. That will ALSO determine what kinds of equipment you will want to use regardless of age.

[FarmboyBill]

You will also need grain for a milk cow. We fed ground corn plus hay. Others in here say there are better feeds, as I know to be true by my Morrison and Morrison Feed books.

[Terri]

Homesteading is a state of mind.

For instance, if you want to raise beef you would need many acres to feed them, which we could not afford. So we have chickens instead and we buy the beef. Does that make me less of a homesteader? I think not.

Some homesteaders are into equipment and tractors, I am into gardening and cooking. But we are all homesteaders.

We are homesteaders because we love to do for ourselves instead of hiring someone to do things for us. Oh, we hire something out if the job is too much for us, but we all gain skills in time and many of us can do much of our own repairs.

The question to ask is, what are your homesteading goals? For you it sounds like building and providing your own food. Well you have more building experience than I do so I will not address that. I have a home made greenhouse but I never built anything more complicated.

As far as food, it depends on what you intend to eat! You might start keeping track of what you are eating now and what your expenses are now: this the life style you are used to. I found that when I moved here that my expenses did NOT drop: The first year it was hoses and tools for the garden. The next year we spent less for vegetables but I made a pint sized hen house so we did not spend less that year. Then there was the fruit trees, the bee hives, and so forth. Every time I saved money I started another project and that would cost me what I had saved.

Now that I am older and rather disabled my place is well developed, but the price of gas and clothing and electricity and such has gone up, so money is still tight. It has, however, been a blast!

I can raise more than we can eat but I no longer have the energy put much up for the winter, so mostly we give away the excess in the summer and buy all our food in the winter. We buy all of our meat, grain, and dairy also, as I only have one acre.

But, tonight we will have deviled eggs from my own hens, pasta salad, and I have not decided what else. I still have frozen corn in the freezer from the garden last year (OK, I did preserve a LITTLE) but I do not feel like that tonight. Maybe I should just bake a loaf of bread and cut up some bought raw veggies. For me that is homesteading.

A different homesteader will be checking over his equipment in the barn while I check over my seeds and watering hoses. I think that I will have to buy fertilizer this year: I have the stuff from the hen house but I will not use manure on salad greens!

So, how much your homestead will cost you to run depends partly on what you need to buy to turn it into what you want. I cannot estimate the cost of running a tractor, but my garden costs me perhaps $100 a year. That includes what I spent to make it handicapped friendly

[Forcast]

how old are you? how fit are you? how rich are you?

[Ozarks Tom]

Welcome to HT! You'll find pretty much everything you want to know here regarding homesteading, and some things you didn't know you needed to know. The best thing to do is ask one specific question at a time, possibly in a forum devoted to that aspect. In the 4 years I've been coming here I've been saved from quite a few mistakes, and of course being hard headed didn't listen to good advice a few times and regretted it later.

Without knowing much more about your likes and dislikes, it's hard to give much advice. A couple things you can count on though. Everything you do will take at least 3 times as long as you thought, and cost at least double.

[Snowfan]

Welcome. Tough question to answer. Lots of variables as has already been stated. You know you better than anyone. Start right now, where you are with what you have. This, actually, is a variation of a quote by someone else. Just keep good records, don't get discouraged by mistakes (you'll make plenty),and keep going. We're all cheering for you.

[geo in mi]

Welcome to the forum. It's interesting that you get your notion of homesteading from a popular TV program, "Alaska, the Last Frontier". Obviously, the cameras won't show any electrical wires, no concrete roadways, no cars or trucks or airplanes or trains, but you might get a better look at the true reality by visiting Homer, Alaska, just 12 miles from the Kilcher homestead. Yes, it does look like a romantic life, and a severe, challenging one at that, so you can get a taste of that life by staying in Homer at its many hotels, eating at its many restaurants(even a couple of Thai places), in addition to McDonalds and Subway. Better yet you can stay almost right on the Kilcher homestead itself, here: http://www.vrbo.com/335518

or here: http://www.vrbo.com/82120

I would be willing to bet that if one of those "cabins" caught fire, the Homer Volunteer Fire Department would be able to get there, and to Adts' place as well.......

Oh, it's true they ride horses and ATV's. It's true they shoot at bears and catch fish. They chop wood and grow vegetables and milk cows and raise chickens--maybe even butcher a moose and put it in the freezer(freezer?, Hmmmmmm) at least while the cameras are rolling. But I'm also willing to bet they manage to get into town for some Thai vittles once in awhile. I would submit they are no more true homesteaders(at least today) than Roy Rogers(Leonard Slye) was a cowboy.....

On this forum, the word "homesteading" has so many definitions and variations that you can almost pick the one that will eventually fit your own lifestyle..You can be your own definition--from a quarter acre lot in suburban Chicago, to a thousand acre farm anywhere in the US or Canada( or even in Dennmark, we have one member there)--and if you are adept with your words, you can convince everyone here that yours is the "true" lifestyle of homesteading. You can even raise goats to be more true and valid--if you like goats....I hate goats... .

So, I would suggest you refine your dream before you take the plunge. To me, the basics are: land, enough to produce vegetable, fruit, and animal food. It might take maybe twenty to forty acres in Ohio or W. Virginia to do that, in a closed loop system that could give you enough grain and forage to keep animals and not have to buy your inputs. Those animals in turn would provide it with the manures to build your soil, along with growing legumes of clover or alfalfa in rotation with crops. Next would come a secure water supply. In today's world and climate, water is becoming more important than ever. After that would come the land and community surrounding you...no waste dumps, no large CAFE animal operations, no pesky neighbor problems, like a motorcylce race track. Then clear title to your land, hopefully with mineral rights intact and belonging to you(especially in coal/strip mine country. Then come the equipment, fences, and buildings to store and repair your machinery, to process your grain and food( a threshing and a butchering facility, for example), and shelter for your livestock.

And most importantly, knowlege of how to put all this together into a working unit. You will need to read lots, get some hands-on experience---and have the ability and willingness to do the physical work.

And, buy yourself a good pair of gloves.

geo

[motdaugrnds]

Welcome to HT newlife0323...

You are getting some great information already on your thread here; so I encourage you to read all posts and contemplate each suggestion. Also, if you answer some of the questions put forth, you will receive more input relevant to your particular situation.

Here is my 2 cents:
Those TV shows do indeed show the romantic side of living off the land; however, they do not show what you might run up against in the area where you finally decide to live.

You sound as though you have a good mind and some skills that will serve you well with country living; and living in Virginia, I can tell you there are few places as beautiful with water as clean.

Some things to make notes of:
1. Make sure the land you choose has a clear title, has a "clean" water supply (like a river/spring everflowing) and NO RIGHT-AWAYS thru it.

2. Check with the local building department and health department as to their laws that will govern what you can and cannot do with that land...and what MUST be done in order to live there.

3. Take time to talk with your would-be neighbors to not only find out what they are like but to, also, find out what type of predators and/or problems they are having to deal with in living in that area.

4. Equipment needed will, of course, depend on your physical condition, your financial situation and what you are wanting to do with that land. (The skills you already have will tell you some of what you need. The lay of your land will tell you what else you may need. And what you plan on doing with that land will dictate what other tools you will need.) So take time to give this some thought.

5. Money? Well I started out with only $1,000 and have a 6-acre homestead with a nice well, disposal system and old trailer that is still standing. (I also found damaged wood and constructed the rest of my place, i.e. barn, chicken house, tool shed, etc.) You can see what I did by clicking my link below. And if an old woman (was in mid-50s when doing this in late 1990s) can do what I did with my limited income, a man with your skills can surely accomplish even more.

6. Do not overlook your own personal needs, i.e. anything medicinal. Make sure the place you decide to purchase is not too far from what you will need to keep yourself healthy and happy.

Most of all, ENJOY the process! Take your time and be thankful for each step you accomplish so as to keep yourself out of any possible depressive states when things do not go as well as you had expected. You will have setbacks and disappointments; so accept them as that...ONLY SETBACKS AND DISAPPOINTMENTS. You can learn from those!

Do keep us informed, even with pictures, as you accomplish what you set out to do. Best wishes!

[Patchouli]

Are you looking to just buy a piece of land and make the leap building your own place and all of that? Or start a little farm to provide for yourself and maybe sell some stuff to keep you going? If you are doing the second it is pretty easy to find a place close to your current job and try it out for awhile and see if you like it.

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by newlife0323

I am seriously thinking of homesteading and have been researching this for awhile. I have spent my life in law enforcement but have many skills like hunting, fishing, been cutting down trees for 30 years on side, carpentry, electric, plumbing, gardening and so on. I am looking for some help in questions I have to help with planning. I am so ready to move on and do what I have always wanted to do but didn't think it was possible or even done anymore until the Mountain Men and Alaska shows came on TV.

1. I am single male and wondering how much land in Ohio maybe West Virginia. I would like to be 98% self sufficient living off the land and growing own food?

2. Most important things I need to prepare to make the move?

3. pitfalls that others have made in the past that I can prepare for?

4. Equipment I would need to have in advance?

5. How much money I would need to get started after I already have land?

I have many more questions but this will get me started, Thanks for help in advance Tom:

1. If you plan to keep animals, you'll need good pasture plus and equal amount of hay land. Probably the biggest problem that people get into is buying pure woodland and then spending a fortune buying hay and grain to feed their animals. OR, they spend a decade trying to convert woods into pasture and usually wind up with pretty poor land. If you want to be self sufficient, producing all your feed is going to be key.

2. Most important thing you'll need is some money in the bank, the right piece of land, and the ambition to get it done.

3. As I said before, the RIGHT piece of land for whatever you want to do. Check your soil survey maps for soil type before you buy. Make sure you have good water, good pasture and enough hay to get you through a winter with whatever livestock you decide to raise.

4. Equipment?....depends on your property but its hard to produce without a tractor. You can do most small farming type work with a 30hp tractor. Get one with a bucket. Of course you'll also need wheel barrows, shovels, hoes, buckets, chainsaw, tools, maul, etc. You buy that stuff as you need it.

5. Again depends on the size of your operation and what you plan to do. After I bought my place, I put easily another 75K into it. A new barn, tractor, implements, fencing, good breeding stock, tools, etc.. It's been about 5 years and I'm just about finished setting the place up the way I want it.


Just another piece of advice, be aware of property tax. As you get more and more self sufficient you'll find that it is really the only dollar cost that you cannot avoid. You'll need to come up with that $$ and it usually goes up over time. So dont just need to afford your land, you'll need to cover that tax every year.

[Mike in Ohio]

I can't speak to Western Ohio but Eastern Ohio land prices are still a bit steep due to oil&gas rights. A lot of the land has coal rights severed from the 1980s or earlier. Prices have come down but land with mineral rights in Central Eastern Ohio can go $10k per acre or more. Land without mineral rights is roughly in the $4k-$5k per acre minimum. Of course it will depend on the size of the tract.

In the far Northeastern corner of Ohio (Ashtabula and Trumbull Counties), some of the O&G companies have walked away from leases by either not paying signing bonuses or not paying to extend after the primary term expires. A lot of leases will have their primary terms expire in a couple years. Depending on pricing for O&G (primarily natural gas), the value of leases (and of course land with mineral rights) could drop sharply.

If you are willing to consider land without mineral rights then you need to check leases carefully. If the land has already been drilled for Utica/Queenston/Point Pleasant, you should have a much clearer picture of risks. Having said that, there has been some experimental horizontal drilling/fracking of the Berea (which is shallower). This may trigger a separate drilling boom at some point.

Hope this helps.

Mike

[mmoetc]

The first question is diet. The land, buildings and equipment you'll need to provide largely animal protein diet are different than what you'll need to provide a largely plant based diet. You can mitigate some of this by hunting, fishing and foraging but you first have to answer what you want to eat and how you're willing to get it. Rabbits and poultry are rather cheap and easy to start with but are you going to be craving that T-bone on a regular basis? It changes all the answers.

The best advice I can give you is to sit down and seriously plan out the life you want. Food, shelter, entertainment, social life.... Everything. Then decide if you'll not only be capable of doing it now, but will you likely be happy and capable of it 10, 20, 30 years down the line? If you go forward, start small. Build on successes and raise things, płants and animals, you enjoy. If it's pleasurable it's a lifestyle if it's not it's just another job. Good luck.

[RomeGrower]

You didn't mention how you plan to pay for what you want to do. We found that banks don't like to lend on land and they recommended we buy an old house on land we liked. They also don't like to lend on more than 10 acres. Since that is the case you may need to have a lot of your own money to get into this, just to get onto some land. If you have plenty of money to work with then it's just a matter of looking for what is important to you.

Put a shovel in the ground you look at. Will it grow anything or will you have to build it up? It's expensive, and takes time, to build up ground that is used up. One of the first things I would do is plant your orchard and bush fruit. Those things take time to develop and you want them started soon. Plan on spending $15 to $30 for each fruit tree and $8 to $20 or more for things like blueberries, blackberries and raspberries. Do you want to sell any of it, or just provide for yourself? That will help you determine how much to plant. Johnson Nursery in Ellijay, GA is a good place to buy from and ask questions of.

[Danaus29]

I'll admit there is no way I could ever produce 98% of my own food. More than 2% of my diet is cheese. I can't afford the land to feed that many cows and I don't have time to do that much milking.

The best way to become even partially self sufficient is to start small and take notes about what works and what doesn't. Learn all the skills you can. Read as much as you can. Practice and experience are your friends and mentors. Do what you can where you are now. Learn food preservation methods; canning, pickling, dehydrating.

[used2bcool13]

Hi Tom,

Welcome! There is a wealth of knowledge here collectively. We all homestead in our own way up to our own physical, financial and know-how ability.

Everyone will tell you 98% is a high percentage to shoot for right off the bat. Why don't you use that as your goal and just start. Buy your property or home with some property and start a garden, raise some chickens (if you like eggs and chicken) and work up from there. Just trying to be independent of the grid for electric is tough and requires some learning about photovoltaic systems etc.

Don't worry about the number, just start, make friends with like-minded people and enjoy life. Sometimes the easiest way to become more independent is to lower your "needs" and to free yourself from debt (as much as possible), this will allow you a freedom in itself. Good luck!

You can do it!

[Muleman]

I welcome you here as well, and do not discourage you, but would like to temper your enthusiasm a bit with the reality of things. I already have a pretty good start and am still years away from anywhere near 98%. if you quit your job tomorrow and were able to devote 100% of your time to this endeavor I would say you would be a minimum of 5 years or more away from 98% S.S. if everything went right. The problem is, not everything can be bought that you need, building a herd of any kind of animal will take time, learning the skills you need to deal with the various aspects of the lifestyle takes time. Honestly the best thing you could do at this point since you are single and you are not burdened with land ownership yet is find a sustainable farm you can intern at for a year or so. The education is what is going to take the most time. Otherwise if you try to rush into it, not only will you lose a lot of money on failed attempts, but more importantly to me, a lot of animals will suffer, while you are trying to learn how to properly care for them.
Enjoy the forum, take your time and read every old post that you can in the various forums, just keep going back and I am sure you will find almost all of the information you are looking for has been discussed many times over.

[Tricky Grama]

Welcome, good luck & prayers. You'll find the answer to 'bout anything here.
Patty

[newlife0323]

Thanks to everyone you all have been very help full and I really appreciate the support. I realize that 98% was kinda high to start out with. What I have been thinking about is being as S.S as possible for one person. My basic plan is a two or three year set up plan depending on what the retirement dept. tells me. I have just started to collect tools which I have a lot of from years of doing thing myself. I plan on buying about a year out and this depends on if there is a house or cabin already built. I don't need a lot and would be happy in a small cabin to start. I have even been looking at kit shed/cabins they are pretty inexpensive and I can easily convert it into a one or two room house. As for a bathroom I have been looking into out houses to RV toilets. Still early in the process I guess it all depends on the land I end up with. If things go right I should be able to pay off land rather quickly and have a good portion of tools and equipment needed. I am not looking to raise cows looks like to much work for one. I do plan on having chickens, ducks and other game birds. Figure the exotic game birds can be sold or bartered to neighbors who are getting tired of eating chickens. I also may try dwarf pigs or goats not sure. Love to hunt and would love to have a venison T-Bone when I get the urge. Things like beans, grains and stuff like that I would buy in bulk much more realistic with the small operation I am planning. Been a foodie most of my life so cooking no problem. However I do need to learn how to cold/hot smoke, pickle and the thing that concerns me the most is canning. Again thanks to all of you I have a much better idea of the direction I need to go and the support from all of you is actually kinda overwhelming. Not use to people like that in the career I chose.