need a little assistance

agmantoo · #1 03/14/15, 04:16 PM

I found this headstone in a wooded area on my land. It had been broken and after marking the location removed it to make repairs and replace in its original location. Between the top of the scratched out "head" and below the readable writing (words "asleep forever") is some scribbling that I cannot make out. Any ideas as to what that portion says? TIA

need a little assistance - Homesteading Questions

need a little assistance - Homesteading Questions

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manygoatsnmore · #2 03/14/15, 04:23 PM

Try doing a rubbing of the headstone to see if you can make the carving come clear. Cover the headstone with paper (blank newsprint works well), and peel a crayon. Hold the crayon flat and rub the entire side of the crayon over the paper. The high points of the headstone will catch the color, while the carved out areas will not. It should make the contrast much more clear than just looking at the stone. Let us know what you find - I love to go to old cemeteries and read the tombstones.

DaleK · #3 03/14/15, 04:58 PM

I want to say "fighting" but maybe just my mind playing tricks. Maybe "asleep forever fighting" wouldn't be a bad epitaph for a soldier.

RichNC · #4 03/14/15, 05:05 PM

Looks like someone defaced it with some sort of drawing and the American Flag, do you mind if I copy this so I can blow it up a bit, I do work with our local cemetery board on restorations.

SRSLADE · #5 03/14/15, 05:12 PM

I am not sure what part you are seeing. asleep? do i see soldier of the revolution? aged 11? wow. please fix and put it back. thank you for doing the repairs.

RichNC · #6 03/14/15, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRSLADE

I am not sure what part you are seeing. asleep? do i see soldier of the revolution? aged 11? wow. please fix and put it back. thank you for doing the repairs.

I think that is 1811, his death date, perhaps.

I am curious OP if you think the stone is a more modern concrete, and by modern I mean like in the last 50 years or so??

BetsyK in Mich · #7 03/14/15, 05:46 PM

Here lies the body of John Tomas dec January 24 1840 aged 77 years 8 mo A soldier of the Revolution war It shows up really clear on my monitor when I tip the laptop at an angle. Can't tell what the writing is below the more formal type, asleep something. A drawing of the flag and a profile of a man. Hope that is what you were asking.

**Tiempo** · #8 03/14/15, 05:57 PM

Making the photo black and white and then playing with the contrast should make the wording pop.

Something's not right about it though, I think it might not be as old as it claims.

RichNC · #9 03/14/15, 06:27 PM

Revolutionary War records can be searched, a bit more than Zone 7 is needed though, not to pry, but I love a good grave site mystery!!

RichNC · #10 03/14/15, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetsyK in Mich

Here lies the body of John Tomas dec January 24 1840 aged 77 years 8 mo A soldier of the Revolution war It shows up really clear on my monitor when I tip the laptop at an angle. Can't tell what the writing is below the more formal type, asleep something. A drawing of the flag and a profile of a man. Hope that is what you were asking.

Betsy, did you see the little H above his last name, like the person who did it misspelling and went back and corrected it??

agmantoo · #11 03/14/15, 06:32 PM

RichNC Feel free to work the pic anyway you want.

I am very positive that the grave is genuine and that it is the burial site of John Thomas. I have spoken to a person that came to the farm seeking the graveyard location from old records. The person has good records of the family history. The headstone had broken off at the base and that is an epoxy repair made by a professional business at the base. I am uncertain as the the material of the headstone. The broken base appears to be some type of stone. There are a few other headstones with limited writing that date back to the early 1800's and the trees nearby and in the area of the grave sites are large hardwoods.

RichNC · #12 03/14/15, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

RichNC Feel free to work the pic anyway you want.

I am very positive that the grave is genuine and that it is the burial site of John Tomas. I have spoken to a person that came to the farm seeking the graveyard location from old records. The person has good records of the family history. The headstone had broken off at the base and that is an epoxy repair made by a professional business at the base. I am uncertain as the the material of the headstone. The broken base appears to be some type of stone. There are a few other headstones with limited writing that date back to the early 1800's and the trees nearby and in the area of the grave sites are large hardwoods.

Do you live in (edited to protect privacy)? I am not trying to pry!!

frogmammy · #13 03/14/15, 06:36 PM

I see a John Tomas from MD, NJ, and VA that served in the Rev war. One was a fife player.

Mon

RichNC · #14 03/14/15, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogmammy

I see a John Tomas from MD, NJ, and VA that served in the Rev war. One was a fife player.

Mon

See the H added just above his last name, and aged just the same, probably home carved, it is John Thomas not John Tomas.

BetsyK in Mich · #15 03/14/15, 07:15 PM

Yes, I see the H now. Spelling wasn't always a priority then, like the backwards N's. The old headstones in the cemetery our family ancestors are buried in are sandstone some times. On many the print is not even as legible as this stone. Sandstone does not weather well. What if you entered both last names in Ancestry.com. Would it tell you if that was in fact a war veteran? That would be fun to find some ancestors.

RichNC · #16 03/14/15, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetsyK in Mich

Yes, I see the H now. Spelling wasn't always a priority then, like the backwards N's. The old headstones in the cemetery our family ancestors are buried in are sandstone some times. On many the print is not even as legible as this stone. Sandstone does not weather well. What if you entered both last names in Ancestry.com. Would it tell you if that was in fact a war veteran? That would be fun to find some ancestors.

Isn't ancestry and genealogy fun!!!

motdaugrnds · #17 03/14/15, 07:24 PM

WOW what a wonderful find. I too see the "h" between the T and the O in the word Tomas. Restoring that is so respectful. Thank you Agmantoo.

Harry Chickpea · #18 03/15/15, 12:52 AM

The flag appears to follow the 15 star flag used around 1810, so it and the face may be of the time. Asleep may be an add-on by another hand, in religious context. What ever else is below that appears to be defacement that has been overscratched to obliterate it.

||Downhome|| · #19 03/15/15, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

The flag appears to follow the 15 star flag used around 1810, so it and the face may be of the time. Asleep may be an add-on by another hand, in religious context. What ever else is below that appears to be defacement that has been overscratched to obliterate it.

I agree the stuff beneath legible words was added after the stone was made, perhaps defacement, perhaps a honorable attempt at a true commemoration.
Perchance it was a family form of honoring and everyone scratched something upon the stone generation to generation, just some more then others.

gotmules · #20 03/15/15, 09:52 AM

I thought it said "father", could just be me. it does look like first part was done by stone maker, and the rest is scratched on later. possibly the family couldn't afford to have all they wanted done professionally? his age would make it possible he was a fifer, they tended to be younger.