Septic system question

CaraMia · #1 03/14/15, 04:13 PM

Is it true that when you have a septic system, you should reserve a piece of ground behind it (same size) so that you have a second site to put in a new septic system when the first one stops working? This is what the man told us who put in our septic system. He said we should never do anything with that land behind our septic system, because in a period of years we'll have to put in a new one and we'll need that ground. I have NEVER seen anyone with five acres leave a huge section of it totally alone because they were saving it for another septic system! When I mention it to others they think I'm crazy, and I think it's a bit crazy, too.

If this is wrong, what do you do when your septic system starts to have issues? A friend of mine said you just put in more fingers in the existing system, not create a whole new bed behind it. My husband believes the guy who told us this, and he won't allow me to put anything on or do anything with that ground behind our septic field. Help a homesteader out?

TnAndy · #2 03/14/15, 04:43 PM

Lot of variables in how long a septic field lasts....from the type of soil to the number of "flushes"

.

Not a bad idea to have expansion in mind.

I put ours in in 1985, 200' of 2'wide trench with 2" stone and 4" black pipe. Had the tank pumped once around 2004, don't think it really needed it then. So far, no issues in 30 years.

What is it you would use the proposed expansion area for ?

SRSLADE · #3 03/14/15, 05:01 PM

That don't mean you can not plant flowers or veggies there. Be prepared to dig it up if you need to. I've had mine 37 years and do not see a problem. pump it every few years if you can. laundry soap is a killer of septics.

jwal10 · #4 03/14/15, 05:03 PM

Here the county told us they would not let us build IF there wasn't the available land for a future expansion area. It was a permitted system, put in 25 years before. The septic was there for a house that burned down. The county wanted it pumped and IF it passed we could build because there was plenty of land to put a new field there, if ever needed. You can do anything you want on that land but IF your septic field goes bad, anything there, will have to be removed to put in a new field. A lot depends on how the land leaches to how well a septic system works. If the lines "plug up" something has to be done ie; new field. Tree roots, compaction from driving over it or livestock packing it can affect how long a field lasts....James

Marcia in MT · #5 03/14/15, 09:19 PM

When we installed our system, we built it with 2 "legs." Only one is used at a time, so the other has a chance to dry out. They are switched on the solstices. It's been well-used for over 25 years and we have never had a problem.

Rustaholic · #6 03/14/15, 09:30 PM

I have never heard of anything like that.
I have two tanks and that helps too.
A 1000 gallon one that was there for the house trailer that was here and burnt down and the 500 gallon one I added in 1977 when I built because the code said I had to have at least 1200 gallons.
Only liquid can get into the second tank and so far I have only had them pumped three times. They will be due again this year or next.
Laundry soap doesn't go that way any longer.

Rustaholic · #7 03/14/15, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaraMia

Is it true that when you have a septic system, you should reserve a piece of ground behind it (same size) so that you have a second site to put in a new septic system when the first one stops working? This is what the man told us who put in our septic system. He said we should never do anything with that land behind our septic system, because in a period of years we'll have to put in a new one and we'll need that ground. I have NEVER seen anyone with five acres leave a huge section of it totally alone because they were saving it for another septic system! When I mention it to others they think I'm crazy, and I think it's a bit crazy, too.

If this is wrong, what do you do when your septic system starts to have issues? A friend of mine said you just put in more fingers in the existing system, not create a whole new bed behind it. My husband believes the guy who told us this, and he won't allow me to put anything on or do anything with that ground behind our septic field. Help a homesteader out?

The one question I would like answered by you is what is your soil type.
I have sand with a sandy loam top soil up here near the house. Out back on the other side of my little valley I have 18 inches of beautiful top soil and a ten inch layer of sand/clay mix then below that is white beach sand.

agmantoo · #8 03/14/15, 09:46 PM

Zoning here mandates that you have to have enough space for a repair/replacement in order to get a permit to build the original home. If you will take care of the original sytem it is unlikely that you will have to ever have a replacement. Having the original tank pumped on a regular schedule and using the proper materials to prevent solids from passing into the drain field will give you a long life of the original tank. NEVER use a garbage disposal on a septic tank system! Use food coloring to add to the toilet tank and then observe if the water in the toilet bowl changes color without flushing. If it does the valve inside the toilet bowl needs replacing. This leak can and will flood the drain field on a septic system and is hard to detect without doing as I stated.

CaraMia · #9 03/14/15, 10:35 PM

We have heavy clay soil. I wanted to put some green houses up on the area of the second field, so I guess if worst came to worst we'd just have to move them.

We're going to have the tank pumped this year, but our laundry soap does go down into it. I guess we should find a way to divert that?

ChristieAcres · #10 03/15/15, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaraMia

Is it true that when you have a septic system, you should reserve a piece of ground behind it (same size) so that you have a second site to put in a new septic system when the first one stops working? This is what the man told us who put in our septic system. He said we should never do anything with that land behind our septic system, because in a period of years we'll have to put in a new one and we'll need that ground. I have NEVER seen anyone with five acres leave a huge section of it totally alone because they were saving it for another septic system! When I mention it to others they think I'm crazy, and I think it's a bit crazy, too.

If this is wrong, what do you do when your septic system starts to have issues? A friend of mine said you just put in more fingers in the existing system, not create a whole new bed behind it. My husband believes the guy who told us this, and he won't allow me to put anything on or do anything with that ground behind our septic field. Help a homesteader out?

You haven't given your State. In WA State, septic designs are legally required to have a primary and secondary drainfield. That secondary drainfield is there in case of a complete failure of the 1st one (which I think is silly as there are other remedies with septic issues...). You could plant a garden there, knowing you may someday (right?!) have to dig it up.

Randy Rooster · #11 03/15/15, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Zoning here mandates that you have to have enough space for a repair/replacement in order to get a permit to build the original home.

Same here. I will note that you can use the reserved area for what ever you want, but it has to be available - in other words if you were living on a small lot and didnt have enough space for a repair area, you would most likely not get the permit to put a septic system in.

Rustaholic · #12 03/15/15, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaraMia

We have heavy clay soil. I wanted to put some green houses up on the area of the second field, so I guess if worst came to worst we'd just have to move them.

We're going to have the tank pumped this year, but our laundry soap does go down into it. I guess we should find a way to divert that?

Right there is a good reason to have the backup area.
That clay can plug up.
My sand sure won't.
Across the road there is a ridge back about a hundred feet from the road right-a-way and it is a clay ridge. They all had to dig down and remove the clay and fill the hole with sand to put their drain fields in. The one across the road was 16 feet down to sand. That is close to what the other houses on that side of the road had to do.

Muleman · #13 03/15/15, 09:08 AM

That is the craziest thing I have ever heard. Like others have said, it really depends a lot on your soil type. A septic system going "Bad" and having to be rebuild all together in a totally different place? That makes no sense at all to me. Think about what it is? a big concrete tank for the water to go to. Some plastic pipe running out from that in a few directions with holes in it so the water goes from the big cement tank into the little pipes and out through the little holes to soak into the ground. Normally trenches are dug a few feet deep and filled with some type of very porous gravel.

lets say over time your system is not draining well anymore? You know this because your sewer is backing up, or your tank is overflowing. Ok fine you pump out your tank, which removes everything. Now you have a perfectly good cement tank again, good as new. Then if need be you dig up the gravel trenches and refill them with new gravel and new pipe. Walla, all new system in the same exact place.

I actually dug up ours shortly after we bought the house and did just what I described above, no more problems. The main problems when I dug it up was tree roots had grown into the pipes, but I went ahead and re-dug the trenches and put in new gravel anyway. I am not sure why people periodically have their septic tanks pumped? maybe they are using a lot of paper or something? a septic system that is working correctly should break down most everything. Adding bacteria every 3 to 6 months, something like ridx or similar, now that can be beneficial. The biggest problem you will have has already been mentioned, many soaps and cleaning chemicals kill off all the bacteria, then instead of all that stuff being broken down, it just sits there and collects. Tey not to add that stuff to the system, if you have to to clean a pipe or something shortly after add a bunch more bacteria, just to be sure.

How glad I am I still live where I do. Over 10 acres build whatever kinda system you want, there is no permit and no inspection. You can put a 55 gallon drum in the ground if that suits you. I have built several uninspected systems and they all seem to be working quite well.

To me the whole inspection and certification deal (and I am not talking just septic tanks) is just another attempt at government to show you how much you need them. Another way to paralyze people into relying on them instead of becoming more self sufficient. I am constantly amazed at how people make such simple things into some complicated monstrosity, that "If you do not pay big money for a PROFESSIONAL to do it for you it could be very dangerous". Professional, that word just kills me, with most things in life, septic tank included, it does not have to be perfect, good is good enough!

Jim-mi · #14 03/15/15, 09:49 AM

Another way to look at it . . . . .Don't put a garage or shed over that area . . . .
"Don't touch it" . . . .Bull . .should be a great place for a garden....
As others have already said; be very careful about what goes in to the septic system.

Quite awhile ago some dizzy person posted on HT about cleaning a lot of paint brushes......Into the septic..............
If I had responded to that post I would have been banned..........

Sawmill Jim · #15 03/15/15, 09:56 AM

We have been here 20 years and no pumping or anything

If the system was new I doubt I would live long enough to worry about it . I don't hire out much work though . I have my own backhoe too.

Cygnet · #16 03/15/15, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim-mi

Another way to look at it . . . . .Don't put a garage or shed over that area . . . .
"Don't touch it" . . . .Bull . .should be a great place for a garden....
As others have already said; be very careful about what goes in to the septic system.

This.

I know of a leach field, built before code, that has a barn on top of most of it. (Location of the leach field was not known at the time the barn was built, and nobody would have expected it to be under the barn. It was believed to be on the other side of the property.)

Code now requires an engineered system, to the tune of $30,000 to $40,000, so replacing the leach field "legally" is cost prohibitive. (Property that used to perc no longer does, because all the folks licensed by the county to do perc tests are the same folks who own the companies that install the engineered systems. See: Conflict of interest, see also: Good Ol' Boy network.)

Replacing the leach field through "other" methods would need to be done by the light of the moon, but may eventually become necessary. (Owner of said system is a retired plumber, and will likely opt for a light-of-the-moon solution.)

The owners of said leach field now divert all grey water to a ditch, watch the number of flushes, pump the tank out regularly, dump bacteria by the bucket full into the tank, etc. However, let's just say the area of the leach field not covered by the barn does grow a beautiful garden, and that garden rarely needs any supplemental water.

Sawmill Jim · #17 03/15/15, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnet

This.

I know of a leach field, built before code, that has a barn on top of most of it. (Location of the leach field was not known at the time the barn was built, and nobody would have expected it to be under the barn. It was believed to be on the other side of the property.)

Code now requires an engineered system, to the tune of $30,000 to $40,000, so replacing the leach field "legally" is cost prohibitive. (Property that used to perc no longer does, because all the folks licensed by the county to do perc tests are the same folks who own the companies that install the engineered systems. See: Conflict of interest, see also: Good Ol' Boy network.)

Replacing the leach field through "other" methods would need to be done by the light of the moon, but may eventually become necessary. (Owner of said system is a retired plumber, and will likely opt for a light-of-the-moon solution.)

The owners of said leach field now divert all grey water to a ditch, watch the number of flushes, pump the tank out regularly, dump bacteria by the bucket full into the tank, etc. However, let's just say the area of the leach field not covered by the barn does grow a beautiful garden, and that garden rarely needs any supplemental water.

Yep one could get a backhoe and a bunch of bushes and make it look like you were landscaping or that is my plan if need be .

Cygnet · #18 03/15/15, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim

Yep one could get a backhoe and a bunch of bushes and make it look like you were landscaping or that is my plan if need be .

The plumber in question could probably install the equivalent of an engineered system, but it's truly not necessary.

The building inspector has been known to actually drive around on week days, looking for illegal construction. He also makes truly unrealistic demands and expectations. Because of this amazing how much construction gets done on weekends and after business hours.

(And a shame they can't come to a reasonable compromise between "no code" and "insanely restrictive code" -- I could post some interesting pictures of local creative architecture from before there was any building code up here!)

Muleman · #19 03/15/15, 09:49 PM

You all might find the issue happening by us now interesting. The next town over is about 45 miles away. Was fairly rural for the most part around the main town. Houses have been going in and now they are all pretty much side by side, as the land has slowly gotten more and more broken up over the last 15 years or so. Everyone is on septic, and now there are problems, too many and they are saturating the area to the point it is causing major issues. No one wants to be out the money for a new city sewer system. The city did not want to do it for free and of course the homeowners are all saying they have already spent money on a septic tank, why should they have to turn around and pay to put in a sewer system?

The city finally put in the system, but, if your septic is working you can keep it. If your septic ever needs repair you can not repair it, you must hook to city sewer and start paying city sewer fees.

The city close to me did the same thing many years ago. None of the people wanted to hook to the city sewer/water system. They all had septic tanks and they all had wells. Why did they want to hook to city systems. Most of the wells were old shallow hand dug wells from way back. When the city finally started hooking most of the people to city sewer, there wells in that area started going dry. Talk about raising a fuss. All the people blamed the city for ruining their wells?? They just could not understand why when they started piping the sewer away, their wells started going dry?? Hmmm I wonder why?

SnipesNL · #20 03/16/15, 08:19 AM

Hi, not sure of the regulations in your area but where I grew up and homestead we all have septic systems. They are heavily regulated by the government but there is no issues with putting a new system where the old one is (just did it after 20 years).

I have heard of failed septic fields but have never actually seen one. We put in good drainage stone when they are installed and if taken care of (no toilet paper, no bleach etc.) they can last indefianetly but certainly 20 years. When the lines collapse of whatever we dig them up and put a new one back.

As a couple of other people mentioned its not a bad idea if you have the space. You can plant anything you want on this reserve land keeping in mind it will be dug back up someday. Plants, flowers etc. are fine.

Hope this helps.