Teach me to figure price/board foot into cost/board?

[frugalwilady]

We inherited a hay mow full of rough cut lumber left from an earlier family saw mill. We are trying to down size 3 generations of accumulated "stuff". My husband works full time plus, and I don't, which pretty much made me the "project manger" by default! I'm actually really enjoying my new position because I'm learning about so many different subjects. When farmers call themselves a "Jack of all trades", I'm quickly understanding it is THE biggest understatement EVER!!! You all have my very humble AWE and RESPECT! At 1st I bombarded my DH w/ so many questions I felt like a somewhat slow, completely ignorant, extremely annoying little kid playing the WHY game! DH is a saint,a very BUSY saint. So I'm learning to just get enough info so I can research stuff myself.
Yes, I'm finally getting to the point! LOL!! I've never been a math whiz, but DH said a board foot is 1" x 12" x 12"and thats about all I understood from his explaination! I want to figure the price/board of the same quality and size of milled lumber to set prices on ours. Anyone out there brave enough to try to help me learn how?!

[Muleman]

Many ways to do the math, but I will try and simplify it. He is correct 1" thick and 1 square foot or 12"x12" is a board foot. Therefore a 12" wide board has 1 board foot of lumber per running foot. 8 foot board 8 feet of lumber. Simple right.

What about a 6 inch board. That is half the width right? So now it takes 2 running feet to make 1 board foot. The same 8 foot board, if only 6 inches wide now has only 4 board feet.

The problem usually comes in on odd width boards, 7 inches does not compute so easy. You could always round it off and call it 6 inches for easy figuring, but then you would be loosing some.

I would go back to the original board foot measurement of 12" x 12". How many square inches is in a board foot? 12 x 12 = 144. So there is 144 square inches in a board foot. Now all you have to do is measure your boards in inches, times the width x length and divide by 144, and that will give you the exact board feet.

Example: 7" board 10 feet long. How many inches is in 10 feet ? 120, so you have a board that is 7" x 120" right? 7"x120" =840 inches, divide 840 inches by 144 and that gives you 5.8, or 5.8 board feet.

Now if your lumber is not 1" then you just times the board feet you got above by the thickness. your same 1" board with with 5.8 feet, if it was 2 inches thick would be 5.8 x 2= 11.6 board feet. pretty simple right?

What if it was 1 and 1/2 inches thick? 5.8x1 1/2 =8.7 board feet.

Hope that helps

[Muleman]

I doubt you have any lumber that is under 1 inch, but if you do you just divide the board feet.

12 inch wide board that is 8 feet long has 8 board feet if it is 1 inch thick, if it is only 1/2 in ch thick then you divide 8 in half, so now your board only has 4 board feet. Thought I would add that just in case, but I doubt your rough cut lumber will be less than 1".

Now something to keep in mind, rough cut lumber is normally a little oversize. Therefore your 1 inch board may actually measure 1 1/8" or as much as 1 1/4". Same goes for the widths they will probably be over by as much as 1/2 inch.

Don't think you have to only measure round numbers. If your lumber is cut a full 1 1/2 inches thick, then call it that and you would add to the board footage the extra half inch.
that same 12" x 8' board would now be 8 x 1 1/2 = 12 board feet of lumber.

[TnAndy]

Originally Posted by frugalwilady

I want to figure the price/board of the same quality and size of milled lumber to set prices on ours. Anyone out there brave enough to try to help me learn how?!

I assume you mean for purposes of selling it. Muleman gave you a pretty good explanation of board feet.


Unfortunately, that is only one of several things that will determine the value of WHY they stuck it aside in the barn.

You'll also have to know what the species is, and determine your market for it as well.

For example, if you have a barn full of softwood lumber (pine, hemlock, spruce), most likely the use of it will be for some kind of construction projects (barn/shed/etc). If won't bring much, if any, more than what someone could go buy that lumber for at Home Depot. So you're looking at maybe 40-60cents/bdft. However, if it's red cedar, for example, it can be more valuable for furniture (depending on the quality of the lumber) That might bring a dollar/bdft, or more.

If it is hardwood lumber, again, knowing the species would help. Some hardwood lumbers are prized more than others. A barn full of yellow poplar (50 cents to dollar range) isn't going to bring what a barn full of red oak or walnut (dollar to three/four dollar range) would that would be used for furniture/cabinets/trim/etc. IF you have a pile of bird's eye hard maple, you have a small fortune sitting there, (5-10 dollar/bdft range) and it would be a shame to let it go cheap.

Then you have a grading issue:

Without getting into a course on lumber grading, basically, the more knots, cracks, worm holes (unless someone is specifically looking for 'wormy' ) etc, the less valuable the piece. A piece completely clear of any of those defects is going to be your most valuable stuff.

Yet another issue is HOW it was sawed. There are different techniques for sawing a hardwood log compared to sawing a softwood log. Most softwood is 'plain' sawed. That means (in most simple terms) the log is put on the mill, and the blade slices it starting from one side (small width) right on across the round (pieces getting wider, then more narrow again) to the other side. See below. The 'face' of the board will have a big, wide pattern of grain. Most lumber is sawed this way, because it's faster, cheaper, and has less waste. Looking at the end grain, you see most of the growth rings are half circle or arched looking.



But some lumber is 'quarter sawed'. Certain species, like oaks, for example, show up a beautiful 'flecking' when sawed this way. You may have heard of "tiger oak", for example. This was oak that was quarter sawed, and shows up those 'rays' that don't show if it was plain sawed. Only more valuable lumber is quarter sawed, as it takes longer, wastes more of the log. But it makes beautiful, more stable (moves less than plain sawed) lumber for furniture. You can see the difference in the end of a board. The growth rings will be close to 90 degrees to the face of the board in quarter sawed lumber.





Learning about lumber can be a long process. I've been working with it for 50 years, and still learn stuff.

[just_sawing]

The other part of TN Andy is how it is stored. If this lumber is Stickered meaning that there are sticks placed between the layers it is more valued. Air Dried lumber even poplar and such is sought after by craftsmen.
I measure most of my lumber by measuring the whole stack. Off bearing from the mill I I will make my stack 3 feet wide and go for it. The widths of each layer will vary so I take that in consideration but if I am cutting 10 footers I know that in a 3 foot by ten foot 1 inch thick there is 30 feet per layer. What you do have to understand is if you are charging for a furniture quality wood when you are loading you need to reduce the measurement for lesser quality wood.

[TnAndy]

Originally Posted by just_sawing

The other part of TN Andy is how it is stored. If this lumber is Stickered meaning that there are sticks placed between the layers it is more valued.

AMEN to that. I was needing some 5/4 ( 1 1/4") red oak for a project and was out of my own, so I looked on Craig's List and this guy about an hour up the road had some. Said it was 'kiln dried'. So wife and I drive up there, and the guy has it piled outside (said it had been in a barn, he had to move it out and get it sold) under a leaky tarp.

Here's a pic from his CL ad:




Even though it wasn't on sticks, it didn't look TOO bad, and I figured I could find some to use.

Yeah......Well, you can see the photo was obviously taken back when things were still green. Since then, he has let it sit out there under a leaky tarp, and now he has a big pile of half rotted, soaked (what good did it do to kiln dry something and then let it sit in the rain ? ) crap. He offered me some just for my drive up there, and I told him I couldn't use any of it at all.....I wouldn't have hauled it home for firewood.

[mike554]

thickness x width x length divided by 12


1.5 (1 1/2) x 6" x 10' divided by 12 = 7.5 bd. ft.

Anything that is under 1" still gets charged as 1" as far as I'm concerned, if you are sawing out thin stock you have to make more cuts.

[frugalwilady]

i'M STARTING TO FEEL LIKE TO BE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT FARM STUFF, ITS LIKE HAVING A DEGREE IN EVERYTHING!!! I did actually understand your explainations and I know something enough about trees to know about firewood. Even though the saw mill operated before hubby was old enough to remember lumber details, he's the one who knows what type of oak or maple grows on our land. Thanks for the realization that he is the best boss for this job! I know he feels Like he's not knowledgeable enough to price this. I'm just going to send him to you guys, you can test his knowledge, correct anything that might be an old husbands tale, and help educate him on what he's actually got! Please don't hesitate to reinforce keeping what he needs for future projects...A bird in the hand and all that! All I can say is, you guys ROCK and I Thank You! He'll use my id , but he'll let you know who it is.

[Mike CHS]

If you don't want to do the math you can use this board foot calculator from the University of Missouri.

http://extension.missouri.edu/script...ore/G05506.asp

[Nimrod]

I bought rough sawn pine boards to build the chicken coop. I figured I was giving the neighbor some business instead of a big box store. The downside was that the wood was much more likely to give me splinters than the planed wood. Rough sawn wood for construction is worth less to me than planed wood you buy in a store.

Muelman said, " I would go back to the original board foot measurement of 12" x 12". How many square inches is in a board foot? 12 x 12 = 144. So there is 144 square inches in a board foot." A board foot is 12"X12"X1" so it's 144 CUBIC inches.

Otherwise what Muelman and TNAndy said is correct but you could go nuts trying to figure out what your wood is worth. Maybe you could sell it at auction. The bidders would have a good idea of what it is worth and you should get top dollar without having your brain explode.

[TnAndy]

Originally Posted by Nimrod

Rough sawn wood for construction is worth less to me than planed wood you buy in a store.

I'm just the opposite.


Rough sawn wood is usually 25% thicker than planed ( loss in planer chips), therefore is often stronger. Most 4/4 lumber is actually 1 1/8" thick if sawed correctly. I'd feel a whole lot better walking around on a roof of that versus 3/4" stuff from the Big Box stores.

Same for framing members. A planed 2x6 is 1 1/2" x 5 1/2". Assuming the grade of the lumber is similar, a full 2 (or 2 1/8") x 6" piece of lumber has to be stronger.




Using rough lumber to build with DOES present some challenges, I'll give you that. As you mentioned, splinters are an issue. And often the lumber isn't near as uniform as planed lumber....a 2x6 for example may vary in width from 5 3/4" to 6 1/2", depending on the sawyer accuracy, and the amount the lumber shrank in drying.

The carpenter that works with rough lumber has to take that into account. for example, in the roof photo above, I will "drop" the varies thicknesses of the rafters to the inside of the roof....when I cut a bird's mouth on the rafter section that sits on the wall, I measure from the top of the rafter down, meaning the notch will vary in size.....that gives me a flat plane on the roof top. If you stretch a string across the top edges of all the rafters, the string line will be straight. Doing so on the under side, the string would vary up and down. But an a attic space, it doesn't matter. If it DOES matter, like you want a cathedral ceiling inside, I've got a neat little trick on how to do that as well.

Studs are a little harder IF it matters (say on a house where you plan to side outside, and sheetrock inside ). I work them up in my shop, running one side on a longbed jointer to give a dead straight side, then run thru a table saw to straight edge the other side. I end up with a 3 1/2" wide 2x4, just like commercial studs....but I leave the thickness alone, since it is in the stud cavity, and makes no difference except to reduce the amount of insulation space very slightly. That way, conventional doors/windows/etc work just fine with 'rough' cut lumber.

Also, I use mostly 2x6's for exterior walls. It makes a lot stiffer/stronger wall, especially when you sheath the exterior with diagonal 1x lumber.



There are lots of tricks to learn (or invent) for using rough cut lumber. I could offer a whole course on it.

[COWS]

All good advice. I will add to examine the wood carefully. Dry wood termites(not official term, I'm sure) will get into wood stored inside and damage it to the point where it is worthless except for fire wood. Check for holes in the wood and little piles of sawdust. When such wood is planed or passed across a jointer worm channels are exposed. Red cedar won't have this problem, except in the white sapwood. White oak will resist them better.

COWS

[TnAndy]

Originally Posted by COWS

All good advice. I will add to examine the wood carefully. Dry wood termites(not official term, I'm sure) will get into wood stored inside and damage it to the point where it is worthless except for fire wood. Check for holes in the wood and little piles of sawdust. When such wood is planed or passed across a jointer worm channels are exposed. Red cedar won't have this problem, except in the white sapwood. White oak will resist them better.

COWS

Called Powder Post beetles.

There are actually several different species that cause the problem, but they do get in dry wood, and don't make a mud tunnel back to earth like termites do. You can control them with various insecticides, and kiln drying lumber to 140 degrees or so will kill any larvae in the wood (which is what does the drilling, not the adult beetle)..but your wood can become infected later after drying too.

You rarely see it in houses after construction. The ones that affect us here in the wood after it is sawn, and stored outside on sticks. The adult beetles can get to it easy, lay eggs, that hatch into the larvae that do the drilling. They seem to LOVE red oak.

[frugalwilady]

Thanks to all who responded the refresher was much appreciated. I have softwoods to hardwoods all of which was air dried and moved to the hay mow after it was dried and the hay left. Many older homes in the area were built from lumber coming out of this old "family" sawmill. Now I have to not get into remembering old times and on with the job at hand. Thankyou