High Nitrates from a well

[Jessyedagger]

I am located in southern california and have been looking at a property to buy. However the nitrates tested at 53 and cannot be higher then 45 per the state. Is there any system that can be attached to my well to filter the nitrates? Or is it even worth it?

[gjhinesjr]

I'm a licensed water treatment plant operator so I'll chime in. The short of it is, it's a difficult treatment challenge. Admittedly, every water source, and areas of the country have unique treatment challenges. As such I've never personally been involved with a plant that had nitrate problems.

A quick search came up with this article which might be extremely helpful to you:

http://groundwaternitrate.ucdavis.edu/files/139107.pdf

You're basically looking at high levels of oxidized nitrogen from (most likely) agricultural runoff.

Briefly skimming the article, it looks like your best bet would be some sort of ion exchange water softening (ion exchange is the type used in residential softeners) or some sort of Reverse Osmosis system. Both have their challenges however.

Now I'm not familiar with rules in California. But the 45 mg/L is the Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL) for nitrate in California. USUALLY (as in, in my experience in other states), those kind of regulations would only apply to a water system serving some sort of community or the general public. If you're talking about using it for yourself alone. I would think you would have the freedom to do so.

Hope that helps, if you have any questions or need clarification on somethin in the article, feel free to PM me.

[mekasmom]

Everyone that has this issue that I know of has to use bottled water. It is not easily fixable. Using the water the way it is can cause kidney failure. It is just not worth it.

[Jessyedagger]

Do you know of any sites that show it could cause kidney failure?

[Jessyedagger]

Also what about livestock? We plan to raise chickens, goats and mini cattle. Will it be harmful to them at that level?

[fireweed farm]

If the nitrates come form agricultural runoff, I'd be worried also about the pesticides/antibiotics in the same runoff. Did they test for that.
Maybe I'm just spoiled due to where I live but I would not go near anything with crappy water without a foolproof plan to get water without being reliant on bottled/truckers.

[Jessyedagger]

We don't know what it is from yet. A couple other properties near by have a few livestock but nothing major and no fields to fertilize either. Septic tank is the next to be checked it could be leaking.

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by Jessyedagger

I am located in southern california and have been looking at a property to buy. However the nitrates tested at 53 and cannot be higher then 45 per the state. Is there any system that can be attached to my well to filter the nitrates? Or is it even worth it?

I don't know that there's anything you can react with nitrates to make them filterable. It an interesting question though.

But removing nitrates from water is common. Commercially it's done to waste water using Fixed-Activated Sludge Treatment (FAST) systems, where air is introduced to enable aerobic bacteria activity. I know that FAST systems are effective enough that the Coast Guard approves them for direct discharge of treated waste water into the Great Lakes. It's not what you probably want for potable water treatment, but you might Google to learn more. I installed a few FAST system along the Colorado River near Parker, AZ.

Treating potable water is probably closer to what aquarium owners do. People who maintain aquariums sometimes develop nitrate problems and have luck sparging (bubbling) air into the aquarium water to drive off nitrates. There is also some biological action that they get from a mature aquarium.

You might try sparging varying amounts of air into your high nitrate water in a temporary pilot plant setup to see how well you do with no bacteria at all. Make it simple, like bubbling water into a drum of water for a few hours and see if you have any success. For the test you might use the blowing side of a shop vac to deliver air to the drum of water. Sparge it well, maybe putting a cloth bag on the end of the shop vac hose. Depending on the exact chemical state of nitrates you have in your water this may or may not remove significant nitrates. If it doesn't work then don't be discouraged. You may need to allow indigenous aerobic bacteria to collect in the sparging tank to help with the nitrate degradation process.

What I'm envisioning for an end product is a high efficiency blower (look at residential FAST system or hot tub blowers) delivering air into a large enough tank to provide some residence time for the water to contact air. The blower would probably run all the time (even at night) to get the nitrates well within limits for a day's worth of water. The end product would most likely be a buried tank, similar in design and volume to a septic tank (probably 500 to 1000 gallons).

Residential FAST systems typically consume about $25/month in electricity, so I think that's about what you should expect from a potable water system. That's not a lot if you get all the water you need.

[Solar Geek]

You asked about articles re: Harm from nitrates in water.

http://www.friendsofwater.com/Well_Water.html

http://www.hml.com/for-your-home/dri...ealth-problems

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/crops/00517.html

Hope this helps. SG

[Jessyedagger]

That is a help. Oddly enough the wife of the current owner just ended up in the hospital with an enlarged spleen.

[rambler]

The city in Iowa is suing farmers upstream because of needing to remove nitrates.

A bit of a touchy subject in farm country, since farmers feel most of the problem comes from cities.... So often in any rainfall event the cities go into 'bypass mode' which is a polite way of saying their waste water treatment plant is dumping raw toilet sewage into the river because they can't treat it all. It is perfectly legal as long as you are a city and have some nicely stamped permit.....

As well the cities that treat their water for nitrates dumps the waste water right back into the river for the cities below them to deal with the same nitrates.

As well it is common for the pretty lawns in the city to have 2.3 times as much fertilizer applied per acre, with much of it overlapped onto sidewalks, paved roads and parking lots, where it quickly is washed straight into the rivers by rain.

Farmers used to slop on extra fertilizer including n, it was cheap and it made corn yield well. But since the 1980s N fertilizer is not cheap, and we farmers have learned a much more balanced use of fertilizer, test ground for what nutrients are needed, and grow a bu of corn from .8 to 1.2 lb of N, instead of slopping on 2 lbs of cheap n and hope it works. This does t mean farmers can't get better, but there has a been a -huge- change in the rate of fertilizer we use per bu of corn produced, how and when we put it on, and buffer strips and so on to change what used to be.

Also wetlands naturally produce high levels as all that plant matter decays, if your source water comes from a bunch of wetlands the experts tell you the wetlands act as great filters which is true - but in doing so they produce a whole lot of green rotting plant mass which creates a lot of nitrates as it decomposes.

Enough soap box. Its so east to just blame the farmers, but best to look around with an open mind......

I thought a national standard for nitrates was 9 parts. If you are at 40 or 50 yes you have a problem. I'd look into it and proceed with caution. Babies are very susceptible to this, and I'd not feel comfortable watering livestock with that either. Nor drinking it.

What is the water source exactly, surface water, a shallow well, a deep well? Typically going deeper is the solution, but that is 'here' can be very different there.

Paul

[Solar Geek]

"Nationally, nitrate has been regulated since 1977. In California, the regulation became effective in 1994. The MCL for nitrate has been set at 10 mg/L. Currently, there are three equivalent MCLs for nitrate: nitrate measured as nitrogen at 10 mg/L; nitrite measured as nitrogen at 1 mg/L; and total nitrate/nitrite measured as nitrogen at 10 mg/L. In California, nitrate is measured as NO3 and its MCL is 45 mg/L (which is equal to 10 mg/L measured as nitrogen). Sampling requirements for nitrates vary among various water systems."



http://www.ehib.org/page.jsp?page_key=14



"What are EPA's drinking water regulations for nitrate?
In 1974, Congress passed the Safe Drinking Water Act. This law requires EPA to determine the level of contaminants in drinking water at which no adverse health effects are likely to occur. These non-enforceable health goals, based solely on possible health risks and exposure over a lifetime with an adequate margin of safety, are called maximum contaminant level goals (MCLG). Contaminants are any physical, chemical, biological or radiological substances or matter in water.

The MCLG for nitrate is 10 mg/L or 10 ppm. EPA has set this level of protection based on the best available science to prevent potential health problems. EPA has set an enforceable regulation for nitrate, called a maximum contaminant level (MCL), at 10 mg/L or 10 ppm. MCLs are set as close to the health goals as possible, considering cost, benefits and the ability of public water systems to detect and remove contaminants using suitable treatment technologies. In this case, the MCL equals the MCLG, because analytical methods or treatment technology do not pose any limitation.

The Phase II Rule , the regulation for nitrate, became effective in 1992. The Safe Drinking Water Act requires EPA to periodically review the national primary drinking water regulation for each contaminant and revise the regulation, if appropriate. EPA reviewed nitrate as part of the Six Year Review and determined that the 10 mg/L or 10 ppm MCLG and 10 mg/L or 10 ppm MCL for nitrate are still protective of human health."

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contamina...on/nitrate.cfm

Also this:

http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/pdfs/factsh...h/nitrates.pdf

Here is more:

There is no simple way to remove nitrate from water. Boiling, softening, and
filtration as a means of purifying water do not reduce nitrate concentrations.
Some of the methods that can reduce or remove nitrate are:
Demineralization
• Distillation - Removes nitrate and all other minerals from the water.
Distillation is one of the most effective types of demineralization. This
process involves boiling the water, then collecting and condensing the
steam by using a metal coil.
• Reverse osmosis - Water is placed under pressure and forced through a
membrane that filters out minerals and nitrate.
Both distillation and reverse osmosis are costly and require time and energy to
operate efficiently. They are low-yield systems, and storage space for treated
water is required.
Ion-exchange - Water containing nitrate flows through a tank filled with resin
beads that are charged with chloride. As the water flows through the tank, the
resin takes up the nitrate and exchanges with chloride.
Electro-dialysis – Water containing nitrate flows across anion-exchange and
cation exchange membranes in a constant electric field. The use of these
mono-anion-selective membranes offer additional possibilities of nitrate removal
by enabling preferential flow of mono-valent anions (Rozanska A. and J.
Wisniewski, 2003)
Other potential options include: phytoremediation, and above ground
biochemical denitrification.

http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/gama/docs/coc_nitrate.pdf

IMHO, I would not buy this property. $$$ for cleaning the water, always worrying whether your system is working. Unless you can get the seller to pay for the system and you figure out operating costs and they are acceptable over the long term, it may be more of a headache than you want.

[Amadioranch]

Originally Posted by Nevada

Treating potable water is probably closer to what aquarium owners do. People who maintain aquariums sometimes develop nitrate problems and have luck sparging (bubbling) air into the aquarium water to drive off nitrates. There is also some biological action that they get from a mature aquarium.

No, you have it backwards. Ammonia and nitrites are consumed by aerobic bacteria that are aided by the presence of oxygen, but the end product is nitrate. Nitrates are not consumed by aerobic bacteria, they are consumed by anareobic bacteria (bacteria the thrive in low oxygen environments). In aquariums we encourage anoxic zones (low oxygen zones/deep sand layers) that will house anareobic bacteria that will process the nitrates to nitrogen gas that then blows off into the atmosphere.

So if it is truly a nitrate issue, airation will do not a thing for it. Not speaking out my rear. 20 years in the high end aquarium industry.

[buffalocreek]

My well measured at about 13 ppm nitrogen, so I put a filter on that supposedly removes N, but don't know if it does. Other countries, such as Australia and Europe, set the safe N limit at 50 ppm, so go figure.

[JoePa]

I have a reverse osmosis system under my sink in the kitchen - bought it from Sears many years ago - change the filters and membrane once a year - they cost a little over a hundred bucks total - this system suppose to remove nitrates and other minerals from the water - the unit is about the size of a two gallon jug - this is the water that I drink and use of cooking - also have a water softener for the rest of the house because the water is hard -

[BlueRidgeFarms]

Our house well water tests 12-14 ppm nitrates, just above the safe limit. Probably wouldn't have been a problem, but we installed a good RO system that cut the nitrates by about 75%. We do have a regular water softener inline ahead of the RO filters.
For us that was enough. You might need an additional membrane inline to get the nitrates below 10 ppm.

It's treatable, but it won't be cheap.

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by Amadioranch

No, you have it backwards. Ammonia and nitrites are consumed by anerobic bacteria that are aided by the presence of oxygen, but the end product is nitrate.

The end product of a FAST system is N2.

YouTube

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by JoePa

I have a reverse osmosis system under my sink in the kitchen - bought it from Sears many years ago - change the filters and membrane once a year - they cost a little over a hundred bucks total - this system suppose to remove nitrates and other minerals from the water - the unit is about the size of a two gallon jug - this is the water that I drink and use of cooking - also have a water softener for the rest of the house because the water is hard -

Treating just drinking water is one thing, while treating all household water is another. Keep in mind that one of the reasons nitrates are restricted for household water is to limit nitrates being returned to the groundwater during wastewater disposal. Your regulators may not allow you to treat only drinking water. I suppose it's worth asking though.

[GeneMO]

How can this be? Located in California? I thought all the regulations out there would prevent such things. I mean, the politicians have passed a law!! We all know that when they pass laws, people comply, problems are solved, and all is wonderful.

Wonder what went wrong?

Ok, I'll quit messing around. Wonder who took the samples? Did they pump the well a good bit, or had the well not been used recently? A lot of the accuracy of test is now the samples were taken.

On a different issue, but I have seen truck loads of grain rejected at grain elevators due to high levels of aflatoxins, and the farmer would take the truck home, eat lunch, then take the same grain back again and it would test fine and he would dump it.

Not the same deal, but just saying.

Gene

[arabian knight]

Treating drinking water is one thing.
But doing it on a scale as the OP wants to for having treated water for animals and such is going to be a lot higher then a small RO unit for the drinking water.
Way More~!